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Caravel Forum : Caravel Boards : Contests : The Random Number God Voting (A multiple question poll)
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RankEntryAverageStandard Deviation
1Level 3 1S8.38888888888891.603429965518
2Haphazard Choice 1E8.05555555555561.4709113660971
3Level 3 1N7.94444444444441.5082079956109
4Chaotic Order 1N2E7.77777777777782.0427529234278
5Haphazard Choice 1S1W7.55555555555561.9212907184212
5Chaotic Order 1N1W7.55555555555561.6740576859244
5Level 3 1W7.55555555555561.8921540406585
8Chaotic Order 2W7.44444444444441.7069212773041
9Chaotic Order 1S1W7.33333333333331.6996731711976
9Level 3 2S7.33333333333332.2360679774998
9Level 3 1E7.33333333333331.8559214542767
12Haphazard Choice 1N1W7.11111111111111.9969111950679
13Chaotic Order 1S71.9436506316151
13Chaotic Order 1S2E71.5986105077709
15Level 3 1N1W6.66666666666671.6666666666667
15Level 3 1S1E6.66666666666671.8559214542767
17Haphazard Choice 2N6.61111111111111.8299632324445
18Chaotic Order 1E6.55555555555562.1401511426954
19Haphazard Choice 1W6.27777777777781.8198154837955
20Chaotic Order 2N1E6.05555555555561.8400550179644
21Haphazard Choice 1N1E62.2607766610418
22Haphazard Choice 1S1E5.27777777777782.3286991016816
Chaotic Order 1N1W
12345678910
Average Vote 7.5555555555556
Standard Deviation 1.6740576859244

Chaotic Order 2W
12345678910
Average Vote 7.4444444444444
Standard Deviation 1.7069212773041

Chaotic Order 1S1W
12345678910
Average Vote 7.3333333333333
Standard Deviation 1.6996731711976

Chaotic Order 1S
12345678910
Average Vote 7
Standard Deviation 1.9436506316151

Chaotic Order 1E
12345678910
Average Vote 6.5555555555556
Standard Deviation 2.1401511426954

Chaotic Order 2N1E
12345678910
Average Vote 6.0555555555556
Standard Deviation 1.8400550179644

Chaotic Order 1N2E
12345678910
Average Vote 7.7777777777778
Standard Deviation 2.0427529234278

Chaotic Order 1S2E
12345678910
Average Vote 7
Standard Deviation 1.5986105077709

Haphazard Choice 2N
12345678910
Average Vote 6.6111111111111
Standard Deviation 1.8299632324445

Haphazard Choice 1N1W
12345678910
Average Vote 7.1111111111111
Standard Deviation 1.9969111950679

Haphazard Choice 1N1E
12345678910
Average Vote 6
Standard Deviation 2.2607766610418

Haphazard Choice 1W
12345678910
Average Vote 6.2777777777778
Standard Deviation 1.8198154837955

Haphazard Choice 1E
12345678910
Average Vote 8.0555555555556
Standard Deviation 1.4709113660971

Haphazard Choice 1S1W
12345678910
Average Vote 7.5555555555556
Standard Deviation 1.9212907184212

Haphazard Choice 1S1E
12345678910
Average Vote 5.2777777777778
Standard Deviation 2.3286991016816

Level 3 1N1W
12345678910
Average Vote 6.6666666666667
Standard Deviation 1.6666666666667

Level 3 1N
12345678910
Average Vote 7.9444444444444
Standard Deviation 1.5082079956109

Level 3 1W
12345678910
Average Vote 7.5555555555556
Standard Deviation 1.8921540406585

Level 3 1S
12345678910
Average Vote 8.3888888888889
Standard Deviation 1.603429965518

Level 3 1E
12345678910
Average Vote 7.3333333333333
Standard Deviation 1.8559214542767

Level 3 1S1E
12345678910
Average Vote 6.6666666666667
Standard Deviation 1.8559214542767

Level 3 2S
12345678910
Average Vote 7.3333333333333
Standard Deviation 2.2360679774998
Total Votes 25 100%
Poster Message
Nuntar
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icon The Random Number God Voting (+10)  
Here it is -- the voting topic for the Random Number God contest! (link to the contest topic)

Twenty-two entries were received. I've arranged them on three levels, but there are no blue doors, and all entries are immediately accessible. Some have multiple entrances. I should have arranged all these according to contestants' wishes as indicated in the holds files they sent me -- let me know if I've made any mistakes.

Each entry is a single puzzle room, architected according to randomly generated suggestions which are different for each room. These suggestions are included on scrolls beyond the green door. In voting, please consider both the overall quality of the room and how well you feel it met the challenge of the Random Number God's whim.

Please note -- it was stipulated that contestants could ignore one suggestion on their list if they chose, for any reason. Do not vote a room lower for doing this!

The hold also includes three "extra" rooms that are not part of voting. These are Chaotic Order 3E, Haphazard Choice 2S, and Level 3 2S2E.

(And yes, sorry about the lack of level title, intro text and corridor beautification on Level 3. It grew late, and I decided that getting this released tonight was more important. I'll do all this at some point before promoting to Holds.)

Voting will remain open until 2am GMT, 3 April 2015.

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03-17-2015 at 11:36 PM
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Nuntar
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File: The RNG Hates Me.hold (2.8 MB)
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icon Re: The Random Number God Voting (0)  
And here are the rooms!

EDIT: Added a missing force arrow and staircase to the rooms either side of Level 3 1S1E. These simply serve to enforce exiting the room to the north and preventing a backtracking issue -- they don't affect the solution of the puzzle iself. These were present in the hold as submitted, so please do not mark this entry lower because of the backtracking issue.

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[Last edited by Nuntar at 03-18-2015 03:16 PM]
03-17-2015 at 11:37 PM
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Dragon Fogel
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icon Re: The Random Number God Voting (0)  
These seem pretty tough at a glance, I did some messing around and only managed to solve one room other than my own. And the solution I found for that room didn't involve what the scroll listed as the main focus, so I'm not sure if it was intended or not.

No ratings just yet because I'm stuck on so many rooms.

[Last edited by Dragon Fogel at 03-18-2015 12:26 AM]
03-18-2015 at 12:25 AM
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disoriented
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Dragon Fogel wrote:
These seem pretty tough at a glance, I did some messing around and only managed to solve one room other than my own. And the solution I found for that room didn't involve what the scroll listed as the main focus, so I'm not sure if it was intended or not.

No ratings just yet because I'm stuck on so many rooms.

A collection of demos would help with the evaluation process. blorx1 provided a set for a recent contest a couple months ago, but I don't know if he's willing to do so again, or if he's even solved all these rooms yet (although it wouldn't surprise me if he had)

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[Last edited by disoriented at 03-18-2015 12:40 AM]
03-18-2015 at 12:38 AM
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kieranmillar
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icon Re: The Random Number God Voting (0)  
Does the usual contest voting rule apply where we should vote 10 for our own entry?
03-18-2015 at 06:54 AM
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Schik
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kieranmillar wrote:
Does the usual contest voting rule apply where we should vote 10 for our own entry?
Yes.

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03-18-2015 at 01:23 PM
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Dragon Fogel
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icon Re: The Random Number God Voting (0)  
I'm up to five rooms done now. One of those is mine, another is unrequired.

There are two more rooms where I know what to do generally but am having trouble with the details.

I think this is going to take me a while.
03-18-2015 at 06:09 PM
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skell
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File: The RNG Hates Me Part 1.demo (10.3 KB)
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icon Re: The Random Number God Voting (+2)  
I am attaching demos for the whole first level and a couple of rooms from the second level, just in case anyone wants. If someone gets all rooms done they might post the demos for the whole hold.

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03-18-2015 at 06:46 PM
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Chaco
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icon Re: The Random Number God Voting (0)  
Here's my demos for level 1 of the hold, in case you want... different demos... or something...?

Well, maybe the demos for 1S and 1S2E will be of interest.

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03-18-2015 at 07:59 PM
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blorx1
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icon Re: The Random Number God Voting (+1)  
Here's a full pile of demos. Everything is solvable. Most things are also broken.

Because so many rooms are broken, I have a question: I'm not really sure how harsh I should be when voting, since if I subtract points for being able to break a room at all, I'd end up rating very few entries higher than a 6, which is pretty mean by my standards.

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03-18-2015 at 10:03 PM
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Jacob
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icon Re: The Random Number God Voting (0)  
Pleased to see that you didn't break my room at least - but I'm obviously not going to tell you which was mine...

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03-18-2015 at 10:11 PM
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skell
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For anyone NOT running TSS 5.0.1.6060, update to the latest TSS version in order for the guard in HC:1S1W to have a stick instead of a sword.

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03-18-2015 at 10:32 PM
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Chaco
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blorx1 wrote:
Because so many rooms are broken, I have a question: I'm not really sure how harsh I should be when voting, since if I subtract points for being able to break a room at all, I'd end up rating very few entries higher than a 6, which is pretty mean by my standards.

Usually, what I try to do is both break the room, and make an attempt to solve the room as "seems intended", and note the differences in things like execution requirements, the roles of each component of the room, etc. and figure out whether it was more fun to break the room or more fun to marvel and go "Oh, so that's what that's supposed to do."

I penalize the break less severely if it's hard to do, less "obvious" to do, and doesn't distract too much from the room's main concepts or purpose, and more severely if it completely bypasses the room or shows what (in my opinion) is a lack of playtesting and polish.

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03-18-2015 at 11:35 PM
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D.Craven_0ne
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icon Re: The Random Number God Voting (0)  
Sigh... Well this just topped my day.
Just browsing through the editor I can tell one of those "broken" rooms are mine. That was a failed attempt at- (yeah well I can't say realy cos it would make it obvious)
Anyway greate to see I managed to submit a version I didn't even intend to export. Real smooth.

So question: once the voting is over, can peeps who made a mishap
fix thier room for the final hold? I kinda fell bad for taking part in making the hold look broken.

Well, off to play the rest of it.

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03-19-2015 at 10:31 PM
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Dragon Fogel
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icon Re: The Random Number God Voting (0)  
There were fixes to Elemental Showcase 5.0, so there probably will be here.

I've already worked out how to fix the break in my room; mostly I feel silly about not catching it.
03-19-2015 at 11:01 PM
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Tahnan
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You know, I'm still working, so this isn't my final word on the matter, but: I'm so tempted to just quit now and give everyone a 1. I like to think I'm kind of good at this game by now, and almost every room I walk into, I look at and say, "Yeah, maybe not".

Note to entrants in future architecture contests: "good" and "hard" aren't actually the same thing.
03-20-2015 at 02:27 AM
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Chaco
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There's a few reasonable rooms scattered among the entrants: for example I'd call Chaotic Order: 1N1W, 2N1E, 3E and Level 3 1S approachable and fairly good.

This contest in particular lended itself to some complicated looking and hard-to-parse rooms, though.

I hope I did a good job making a fun room, but we'll just have to see at the end.

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[Last edited by Chaco at 03-20-2015 02:34 AM]
03-20-2015 at 02:33 AM
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Dischorran
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icon Re: The Random Number God Voting (+2)  
I want your 1, Tahnan. Gimme your big, throbbing 1.

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[Last edited by Dischorran at 03-20-2015 07:52 PM : I can do better.]
03-20-2015 at 05:26 AM
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kieranmillar
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icon Re: The Random Number God Voting (0)  
Tahnan wrote:
You know, I'm still working, so this isn't my final word on the matter, but: I'm so tempted to just quit now and give everyone a 1.
Surely it would be more appropriate to give everybody a random score.
03-20-2015 at 06:26 AM
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Insoluble
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I haven't cleared even half the rooms yet, so I'm withholding final judgement, but am inclined to agree with the above. Playing through this compilation hold is a bit of a chore. I don't think it's the fault of any particular architect (my room suffers from the same issues as many of the others) and I still very much like the idea of this contest and think Nuntar did a great job running it. But a lot of the rooms just feel too cluttered and in many cases the elements don't actually fuse together into a coherent whole.

Its interesting because when skell and gamer_extreme_101 did a live stream in which they built rooms based on idea generator suggestions they didn't have this problem. I think it's primarily because they allowed themselves more freedom to discard suggestions they didn't like. So on a positive note, I've learned a lot about how to effectively use the idea generator. In the future, I hope to avoid the mistakes I made with my room in this contest and use the idea generator's suggestions as a loose guide, discarding and altering its suggestions as I see fit.

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03-20-2015 at 01:10 PM
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jamesdenem
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icon Re: The Random Number God Voting (+2)  
I found that I was able to solve most of the rooms without having to resort to looking at any demos.

Also funnily enough, it seems like the levels are grouped by difficulty since I solved (except unneccesary rooms) all of Chaotic Order, all but 1-2 in Haphazard Choices, and all but 3-4 in Level 3.

It might be interesting to have someone make a Youtube video playing this hold and commenting on challenge, percieved room constraints, and how well it followed the RNG from the scrolls once the voting is over.

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03-23-2015 at 09:51 AM
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Chaco
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icon Re: The Random Number God Voting (+1)  
Alright, after about 10 hours of playtime spread over one-and-a-half weeks, I've written up my commentary and submitted my votes.

Overall, there are some interesting and tricky rooms in here, but some architects did a better job making their rooms fun to play than others. I'm very happy to see such a wonderful variety of rooms in different styles, attending to different aspects of gameplay, it's just that some of the rooms disappointed me.

Since I've split up my commentary into three parts, one text file per level, I'll post it as an attachment after the poll is done rather than using an unhidetime tag. I have a couple of paragraphs to say about each room.

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03-28-2015 at 02:18 AM
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Tahnan
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icon Re: The Random Number God Voting (+2)  
My actual comments, which I'm too lazy to post in a hideuntil-tag, or maybe I just want people to be influenced by them. Either way.

I'm not including the numbers I gave, mostly, because my exact criteria are my own. Starred rooms are ones I didn't solve.

Chaotic Order:

Click here to view the secret text


Haphazard Choice:

Click here to view the secret text


Level 3:

Click here to view the secret text


And some comments on some of the non-voting rooms...

Click here to view the secret text




03-30-2015 at 05:54 AM
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reyll3
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Tahnan wrote:
Click here to view the secret text

Click here to view the secret text


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03-31-2015 at 10:52 AM
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Tahnan
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reyll3 wrote:
Are you sure you had updated the hold before playing this room? It rather sounds like you've played the incorrect(old) version where you could escape south.
Not sure why this was secret--and no, I probably played the old version. Not sure what I can do about that.
04-01-2015 at 04:28 AM
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Chaco
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icon Re: The Random Number God Voting (+2)  
Looks like voting is done. Here's my comments and scores.

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04-02-2015 at 07:33 PM
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Nuntar
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Congratulations to our winners!

First place: Level 3 1S by Doom
Second place: Haphazard Choice 1E by Dragon Fogel
Third place: Level 3 1N by Dischorran

Chaco, who is behind only techant in terms of number of contests entered, has earned his fourth 8-timer prize. Doom has earned his third.

This was jamesdenem's and blorx1's ninth contest; as their eighth was "Guess the number of rooms in TSS", I'm not sure if 8-timers have been awarded yet.

larrymurk and hyperme are each due for an 8-timer prize next time they enter a contest.

Dragon Fogel is a first-time contestant and earns 10 rank points in addition to his 50 for second place.

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04-02-2015 at 08:02 PM
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Dragon Fogel
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icon Re: The Random Number God Voting (+12)  
Well, that went pretty well for my first contest entry. I'm glad people liked my room enough to score it that high.

I felt silly once I saw blorx's demo of getting the "red herring" Power Token. Simple to fix with a disarm token on the left arrow, though. Chaco's comments also mention that you don't need to get two powder kegs to light that fuse; I hadn't thought about using a monster to push the keg against, but I can't see how to prevent that and it doesn't really change the puzzle substantially so I don't have a problem with it.

My prompts included multiple weapons, so that limited the number of non-Beethro roles I could use. (Though switching partway through the room was a possibility.) I thought about a guard, and how one of their main differences from Beethro is that monsters don't move until alerted. Since I had several prompts involving explosions, the idea of a "stealth" room soon came to mind and this was the result. (Admittedly, I don't usually associate "stealth" with "lots of explosions", but I guess that's just one of DROD's quirks.) At one point I was thinking of including all the weapons in the solution, but I couldn't think of anything particularly interesting to do with the pickaxe or spear and it probably would have made the room too complicated anyways.

Overall, I found the room interesting enough that I'm thinking of making a short hold of stealth puzzles now. It turns out there are quite a few ways to kill monsters without alerting them.

I'll share my other room prompts in a bit. There was one in particular I was interested in doing something with, but I just couldn't get my head around how to actually make the room.
04-02-2015 at 08:29 PM
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Dischorran
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icon Re: The Random Number God Voting (+1)  
My rolls:
Click here to view the secret text
Only one of them really had obvious links between the parts, so I used it.

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04-02-2015 at 09:11 PM
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Dragon Fogel
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icon Re: The Random Number God Voting (+1)  
Here's my full list of rolls. I had at least vague thoughts for rooms on all of them, so I'll include those.

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04-02-2015 at 11:21 PM
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