PigmyWubba
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 162
Registered: 04-14-2012
IP: Logged

File: Trial Tower.drh (13.6 KB)
Downloaded 68 times.
License: Public Domain

Hello again you might not remember me i got burnt out on drod about a year ago but i'm back hopefully i won't get burnt out again.

I estimate i'll finish this hold between the 15th and the 18th, It's not gonna be very long so if you don't wanna beta test stay away for a couple of days because things on all floors will change a lot.

I'm still thinking of a story i'll probably need some help is i'm not very creative.

I can't optimize very well so it will probably be easier than i want it to be, so please tell me if there are any obvious choices.

Update: Finished the second floor.(Though it needs a lot of work.)

Update 2: Added more keys and options to floor 1.(Floor 2 is yet unchanged.)

Update 3: Added score checkpoints auto saves and options.(It's probably unbalanced.)

Update 4: Added third floor.(Haven't yet balanced it so it may be extremely hard or easy.)

Update 5: Added fourth floor.(Read parenthesis above.)

Update 6: Added Fifth floor.(This one is definitely unbalanced.)

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[Last edited by PigmyWubba at 12-20-2013 01:25 AM]

mrimer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 5195
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

Hey, I remember that avatar! Welcome back!

Everyone feels burnt out from time to time. Good luck in working on and completing your hold.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

Citrus
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1233
Registered: 01-08-2006
IP: Logged

Not sure if this is intended or not, but all you need to kill the Topaz Statue is the wooden sword and the wooden shield, you don't actually need to kill anything else or take any damage at all before exiting the level. It was fun though!



____________________________
Call me Citrus.

PigmyWubba
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 162
Registered: 04-14-2012
IP: Logged

Did you get any gems? or see the entire floor?

If you did either then its meant to work like that.

____________________________
790th Raft Complaint Clerk-

Midootje
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 110
Registered: 03-05-2011
IP: Logged

Well, this was actually pretty fun indeed. Maybe a little 'immediately to the point' when giving out the swords and shields this quickly, but still fun.
One thing I'd keep in mind when continuing building this hold is the availability of keys. The blue key is easily accessed, whereas I was one yellow key short in the end. A hold always needs a good ratio of keys.
I liked the placement of monsters, and the choices they made you make.
I also liked that almost every available reward had two different ways of getting it. Making everything a choice makes it hard (in this case, read: fun) for optimizers.
Keep up the good work!

____________________________
Don't worry, be happy, and slice monsters. You'll probably do better than me at all three.

Suwako
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 148
Registered: 04-29-2011
IP: Logged

First level comments


Second level comments


This is a nice hold, with a lot of options. I only miss a little more variety of doors and keys. Good work

____________________________
A moment last forever, an eternity passes in an instant, the time I spent here was inevitable...

PigmyWubba
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 162
Registered: 04-14-2012
IP: Logged

I took your feedback involving keys and the lack of them but i am worried about the butterfly effect.

As for the swords and shields being given out fast there are only gonna be 5 levels so i thought 1 sword & shield a floor but maybe i should alternate?

Well the second floors re-balancing will come after i know what the butterfly effect has done.

Edit: Oh yeah i wanted to give the vampire life steal/regen but i don't know how can i get some help?

____________________________
790th Raft Complaint Clerk-

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[Last edited by PigmyWubba at 12-14-2013 07:19 PM]

Nuntar
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 4964
Registered: 02-20-2007
IP: Logged

(Before reading other posts) I enjoyed this hold so far. Simple, but a good example of RPG optimising play, with good choices nicely rewarded. It's a little punishing in that the player who makes poor choices quickly gets stuck and has to restart (rather than being able to carry on but prevented from getting an optimal score) -- but as the hold is so small, this isn't really a problem.

(Reponse to your post) There isn't a real butterfly effect with keys, because if the multiplier keeps going up, you always want to save keys if you can, to spend them better on the next level. The problem comes with the last level: if you reward the player for getting this far with spare keys, it can make the last boss too easy. One way around this is to add a bonus boss, who can only be beaten if the player has better than average stats. Another is to give plenty of HP, and have a difficult final boss who can just be beaten, but an optimising player can gain stats that make the final boss do considerably less damage.

In your second level, after getting the shield, all enemies except the Vampire are reduced to very low or zero damage. This isn't a huge problem, because you've ensured that the player must fight several of the enemies earlier, without the shield, to get the best power-ups. If you want to make five levels, there's nothing wrong with continuing in this style, giving a sword and shield every level, but be careful. If you use the standard equipment, later swords and shields give large stat boosts, so you must take extra special care that levels don't become trivial as soon as you get the equipment.

You need to add score checkpoints after each boss, and autosaves on starting each level. There's a post explaining how to do this in the DAA Architectural Handbook.

I can try to help with "life steal/regen" but it would be easier if you explain exactly what you want If "regen" just means that the vampire regains a set amount of HP after each attack, remember that mathematically, this is equivalent to him starting with more DEF, so it's better to leave it out so that the in-game forecast of damage remains accurate.

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50th Skywatcher

PigmyWubba
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 162
Registered: 04-14-2012
IP: Logged

For the life steal/regen i mean that the vampire heals a fourth the damage he does to you every turn.

But that would mess with the expected damage so i may just increase his defense as per your suggestion.

I am gonna add score checkpoints and autosaves right now expect them soon.

i might add another enemy type to floor 2 with higher stats and/or buff the zombie.

____________________________
790th Raft Complaint Clerk-

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[Last edited by PigmyWubba at 12-14-2013 08:31 PM]

PigmyWubba
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 162
Registered: 04-14-2012
IP: Logged

The next update is out, i'm planning on adding the next floor(or two?(or three!)) in the next update.

But i added a lot of choices for now whichever ones work well will stay so please tell me which choices you want to go and which choices you want to stay.

____________________________
790th Raft Complaint Clerk-

Suwako
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 148
Registered: 04-29-2011
IP: Logged

A lot better in my opinion, more keys, options, things to do and monsters. I liked the use of the assasin of 2N1W.

My end stats, if you need them:

HP: 269
ATK: 53
DEF: 45
GR: 90
KEYS: 0/0/0

I think that all the choices you like have to stay, since i can take some ways other players wouldn't, and I wouldn't do some things other player could do.

That's why is both hard and fun to optimize this. If you include equally options it makes the player to think what to choose to get the item with the lowest cost, if you put 1 great option and 1 lower, the great will be obvious to take.

____________________________
A moment last forever, an eternity passes in an instant, the time I spent here was inevitable...

PigmyWubba
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 162
Registered: 04-14-2012
IP: Logged

I just realized i had an excess yellow and green key leftover from testing, I am such a fail.

I just removed them, floor 3 will be out later today or early tomorrow.

____________________________
790th Raft Complaint Clerk-

Someone Else
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2357
Registered: 06-14-2005
IP: Logged

I quite enjoyed these first two levels. I'm not sure I like how I ended, but I'm going to have to see the next level to be sure.

PigmyWubba
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 162
Registered: 04-14-2012
IP: Logged

Just checked this i have 6 of 9 rooms done on the third level so you won't have to wait long.

____________________________
790th Raft Complaint Clerk-

mrimer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 5195
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

Neat! I'm always excited to see more RPG holds in active development.

Nuntar wrote:
...
You need to add score checkpoints after each boss, and autosaves on starting each level. There's a post explaining how to do this in the DAA Architectural Handbook.
...

Greatly enjoyed reading through your latest post on that thread. Thanks! Decided to mention it here to keep clutter down in that thread.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

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[Last edited by mrimer at 12-15-2013 05:47 AM]

PigmyWubba
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 162
Registered: 04-14-2012
IP: Logged

Update is out there are some rooms on the third floor which are really heavy on the pressure plates so feel free to open up the editor and see what does what instead of trial and error-ing it.

____________________________
790th Raft Complaint Clerk-

Midootje
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 110
Registered: 03-05-2011
IP: Logged

Alright, done again. Stats at checkpoints:

Topaz Statue: 11/25/25/0/1/0. 100 HP left to pick up.
Vampire: 300ish/55/55/1/1/0.
Battle Golem: 30/110/110/3/2/1. Didn't pick up the second blue key yet, also didn't use invis potion or bomb, and about 1200 HP is left to pick up.

Comments:

I like the increased amount of choices on Floor 1. Especially the hot tiles, because in small holds it doesn't take too much time, but does require thinking, to backtrack to the rewards behind hot tiles.
The second Floor also seems fine. However, the ATK gem in 1N can never be retrieved. There is no plate triggering its door.
The third Floor isn't as unbalanced as you might think, although it does become a little easy after passing 1S1E. The Battle Golem can be fought at any time (although I would of course never do so without both the sword and the shield).
You should also take note that the DEF gem in 2S2E can always be picked up before doing anything else in this room.
The use of the accessories seems a little unnecessary so far, but changes in future challenges might prove me wrong.
Oh, also, about the scorepoints: you may want to make an autosave after each boss (since there is nothing but the stairs to the next Floor behind them anyway). That way, it's easier to report stats before/after bossfights.

Excited for the next update. I hope the accessories will lead to something good like a secret Level or so

____________________________
Don't worry, be happy, and slice monsters. You'll probably do better than me at all three.

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[Last edited by Midootje at 12-15-2013 11:18 AM]

PigmyWubba
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 162
Registered: 04-14-2012
IP: Logged

As for the ATK gem in 1N it actually is completely possible it involves walking on doors and the assassin.

As for 2S2E i actually forgot some force arrows, the would prevent you from going down the greckle gate path and if you went past the money bag you cold no longer go back up.(except by the greckle gate path)

Just hot-fixed the force arrows.

Ah just realized the sentinal's ATK can be nullified.
Not sure how i feel about that.

____________________________
790th Raft Complaint Clerk-

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[Last edited by PigmyWubba at 12-15-2013 12:08 PM]

PigmyWubba
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 162
Registered: 04-14-2012
IP: Logged

Just woke up expect an update soonish,
it will include re balancing the third floor and maybe the fourth.

Edit: 5 of 9 rooms done on floor 4.

____________________________
790th Raft Complaint Clerk-

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[Last edited by PigmyWubba at 12-16-2013 02:17 AM]

PigmyWubba
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 162
Registered: 04-14-2012
IP: Logged

The fourth floor is done the fifth should be out tomorrow then ill do some testing until the end of the 18nth.

If there are no standing problems i'll submit it then.

Edit: I have no idea about what to change on the fourth(and third) level can i get some advice?

____________________________
790th Raft Complaint Clerk-

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[Last edited by PigmyWubba at 12-16-2013 09:43 PM]

Nuntar
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 4964
Registered: 02-20-2007
IP: Logged

Battle Robot defeated!
HP 105
ATK 103
DEF 96
Keys 1/1/0

The additions to the first two levels certainly add more interesting choices. However... what's the point of the ATK gems in 1E being on an open black gate, and the only pressure plate that affects it opening it? It feels like you were trying to fool the player into thinking the plate would close it.

Talking of pressure plates...

there are some rooms on the third floor which are really heavy on the pressure plates so feel free to open up the editor and see what does what instead of trial and error-ing it.

You can see what does what just by clicking on them. Unfortunately, it gets annoying when the plate is on an orthosquare, because this highlights all orthosquares in the room (a "feature" that is being removed from regular DROD; hopefully it will be removed from DROD:RPG in a future version).

The third level was fun to solve and has lots of interesting choices, so I don't think you need to change much... except of course the spelling of "sentinel" and "protector" And pushing that mirror around every time I wanted to pass through the room was annoying. I think you could just get rid of his beam.

I particularly like the fact that either going for the sword first or shield first seem like viable choices (I went for the shield).

On the fourth floor, are you aware that the Ninjas having "Attack in front" and being sworded gives them a double attack? It's okay if this is deliberate, but I thought I should check.

End of fourth floor: HP 761, ATK 164, DEF 157, keys 4/2/0. There are two more blue keys I could pick up for a small HP cost. I haven't used any one-use accessories yet.

[EDIT: and this means I haven't got the portable orb, as it's guarded by a thing with 1000 DEF, so I'm pretty sure you have to use another accessory to get it.]

The fourth floor is mostly well-balanced and fun. The one thing I didn't like was that, early on, there were no yellow keys available, even for HP, and it was easy to get stuck and have to replay a large chunk. You have an autosave instead of a score checkpoint after defeating the boss.

____________________________
50th Skywatcher

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[Last edited by Nuntar at 12-17-2013 08:44 PM]

PigmyWubba
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 162
Registered: 04-14-2012
IP: Logged

The pressure plate was supposed to close the door.

The ninja's having swords and strike in front is intentional.

Floor 3 1S2E (The sentinel room) there is a way to stop the beam
but ill add an alternative way so you can have a choice on how you stop the beam, it will be easier but have other detriments.

Edit: also its possible to just kill the sentinel,
and i can't just remove the sentinel entirely its already part of a couple interlocking puzzles.(Is that the right word?)


____________________________
790th Raft Complaint Clerk-

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[Last edited by PigmyWubba at 12-17-2013 12:15 AM]

Nuntar
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 4964
Registered: 02-20-2007
IP: Logged

PigmyWubba wrote:
The pressure plate was supposed to close the door.

As the rest of the level stands, that would make it too hard. You have to fight a Topaz Statue to continue the game, and the only way to get more ATK to help would be... fighting a Topaz Statue.

In general, and for the same reason, the boss of a level shouldn't be used as a normal enemy on the same level.

Floor 3 1S2E (The sentinel room) there is a way to stop the beam
but ill add an alternative way so you can have a choice on how you stop the beam, it will be easier but have other detriments.

If the other way has detriments, then it won't really be a choice -- players will just shunt the mirror around. Sure, it's not a huge annoyance, but it's unnecessary and gets in the way of DROD:RPG gameplay.

____________________________
50th Skywatcher

PigmyWubba
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 162
Registered: 04-14-2012
IP: Logged

File: Trial Tower.drh (10 KB)
Downloaded 49 times.
License: Public Domain

All right ill change the topaz statue to something else and ill add some benefits to the other way.(along with the detriments(ill make it so the benefits are as good as the way that's already in place))

Edit: attached the version that changed the stuff mentioned in this post to this post, is the sentinel room fine now?

Edit 2: Thank you for your feedback it really is very helpful.

Edit 3: Just noticed your edit and fixed the score checkpoint,

I have to ask did you get the portable orb?

I have plans for the orb and need to know if the stats after the fourth floor are with or without the orb.

____________________________
790th Raft Complaint Clerk-

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[Last edited by PigmyWubba at 12-17-2013 12:36 AM]

PigmyWubba
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 162
Registered: 04-14-2012
IP: Logged

Just woke up gonna start the fifth floor in about an hour expect it soon.

____________________________
790th Raft Complaint Clerk-

PigmyWubba
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 162
Registered: 04-14-2012
IP: Logged

Fifth floor completed gonna do some testing and balancing (and story making.)then i'll send it in.

____________________________
790th Raft Complaint Clerk-

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[Last edited by PigmyWubba at 12-18-2013 11:24 AM]

Someone Else
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2357
Registered: 06-14-2005
IP: Logged

Okay, F5: 1E seems a little odd to me. If you hit the pressure plate in the SE corner, you can't get out of the area. It seems like the NW pressure plate is supposed to be used to get out, but you can't get to that unless you hit the SE pressure plate.

Oh, and 1N2E has a black door at 4,10. I think that one should be down.

In 2N, you can't return anywhere after beating the top part (the tunnel prevents you).

In 2N2E, you can't exit the hold after beating the dragon.

Stats after beating the Dragon:

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[Last edited by Someone Else at 12-18-2013 04:53 PM]

PigmyWubba
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 162
Registered: 04-14-2012
IP: Logged

Just fixed the stuff in your post.

Any thing you want changed? if not i'm sending it in tomorrow.


____________________________
790th Raft Complaint Clerk-

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[Last edited by PigmyWubba at 12-19-2013 01:50 AM]