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Ijon Tichy
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icon Lost Cause (+3)  
Some of you people might remember Monkey. That's me, plus maturity, minus smilies, and overall less of a derp. Also I use capitalisation and punctuation very spastically (I know the rules of grammar, I'm just flying in the face of them).

Anyway, here's a hold I've been doing as a re-introduction to DROD RPG's level editor and DROD RPG scripting, and IMO actually plays pretty well. There's no storyline yet, because I'm a lazy bum and would rather think on how to rebalance the maps (read: get your HP as low as possible). It's beatable, but barely - if you can get past the tarantulas with more than 70 HP, you're better than I am.

Anyway, that's all I have to say right now. You have almost nothing to lose - 9KB is nothing these days, and you're playing a silly turn-based game, so time probably isn't a worry.

/post

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[Last edited by Ijon Tichy at 08-04-2012 03:32 AM]
08-02-2012 at 03:15 AM
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Chaco
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icon Re: An as-of-yet untitled, story-less hold (+2)  
Welcome back; we're happy to see you again.

I'll take a look at this right now. ;)

EDIT: Okay, I reached the end of the current version. Very nice work! The hold has a good sense of progression and I think there's a lot of potential in the next zones. I might write up something more specific about the actual resources in each room, but that will come later (if I decide to).

One thing I should mention right away though, is that the script in 1S5W only lets you into the house once, and then never again (probably because the script reached the end of its lines, and then didn't reset, as by DROD RPG default, scripts don't reset on room re-entry). You should fix it using some kind of loop or other reset, so that you can enter and re-enter the house as many times as you want, instead of sealing it off after you leave.

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[Last edited by Chaco at 08-02-2012 04:48 AM]
08-02-2012 at 04:09 AM
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Ijon Tichy
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icon Re: An as-of-yet untitled, story-less hold (0)  
Chaco wrote:
Welcome back; we're happy to see you again.
Really? I thought you guys would've had enough of that smug, smiley-overdosed foolhardiness. Ah well, I was 12 then.

I'll take a look at this right now. ;)

EDIT: Okay, I reached the end of the current version. Very nice work! The hold has a good sense of progression and I think there's a lot of potential in the next zones. I might write up something more specific about the actual resources in each room, but that will come later (if I decide to).
This is totally not what I was expecting. And to think a few years of inactivity would turn one's holds from "eh, they're alright I guess" to "hey this is actually pretty good".
I mostly just build to fill any gaps and issues I found when playtesting (after making an initial draft, of course). Originally, the second brain room's side path was 6 greckle gates, you didn't have enough health to fight the tarantulas (960 HP was necessary to fight them on my playthrough - it used to be 256, but that was way too easy), and you ended with a solid 10(!) yellow keys. By adding the health room with all the yellow doors and replacing half the greckle gates with yellow doors, I solved all of those problems at the same time. There also used to be a hot tile in the first area leading to the medium health and yellow key, but since that was basically the only choice you got, I figured I should just take the hot tile out and give the player a yellow key and 60 health to decide for himself what to do. I think it works better, anyway.

How many people are getting the first green key through the greckle gates? That's how I do it.

By the way, in case anyone cares, the main reason I'm using the "glowy areas make pickups stronger" idea is so I can more finely control the rewards for killing something. Same reason I (and everyone else) make heavy use of custom monsters. All to keep your HP low, right?

One thing I should mention right away though, is that the script in 1S5W only lets you into the house once, and then never again (probably because the script reached the end of its lines, and then didn't reset, as by DROD RPG default, scripts don't reset on room re-entry). You should fix it using some kind of loop or other reset, so that you can enter and re-enter the house as many times as you want, instead of sealing it off after you leave.
Of course I forgot to fix that one. derp

Out of curiosity - I slathered loads of attack and defense gems on the player in the first level as a way to get him in fighting condition quickly (starting at 0 ATK/DEF kinda requires that). Am I right in assuming I'll need to tone that down drastically in later levels (and possibly use an altar-like device)?

Edit: I just remembered - it makes almost no difference whether you go for the grey man as soon as possible, or wait until his damage drops to around 560. Although shield-bashing lesser devils and dirt babies to death is pretty fun.

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[Last edited by Ijon Tichy at 08-02-2012 08:04 AM]
08-02-2012 at 06:12 AM
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Blondbeard
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icon Re: An as-of-yet untitled, story-less hold (+1)  
Done :) My stats in the end: 325/45/49/6/0/0. I think it's hard not to get the green key through the Greckle Gates. The thing is you won't be in a much better situation on the other side of the gate, so you might as well stay and kill monsters until you can pass through the Greckle Gates. I too find this interesting.

Also you were never that anoying. For some reason we sometimes get quite anoying kids roaming around the forum. You were perhaps mildly anoying at times, and you did contribute in numerous ways. As for your hold making skills I'm not surprised that a few extra years is a good thing, even if you were inactive during them.

I found it valuable to wait a bit before killing the Gray Man (it cost around 560 HP). I don't think you have to worry about treating gems diferently. At least not if you don't use altars.

In conclusion: Good to have you back, and please continue this work. It looks like it can be interesting.

[Last edited by Blondbeard at 08-02-2012 09:05 AM]
08-02-2012 at 09:05 AM
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Suwako
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icon Re: An as-of-yet untitled, story-less hold (+1)  
Welcome, everyone is childish and inmature sometime.

Great Work, i liked it a lot, my stats were 266/46/50 with 5 yellow keys.

I choosed to get the first green key by greckles, because yellow keys are better after and in the second area i found very interesting the use of the red and green colors.

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08-02-2012 at 11:44 AM
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Someone Else
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icon Re: An as-of-yet untitled, story-less hold (+1)  
Wow, you're right! It's way better to do the greckle doors. I got 424/46/49 and 3 yellow keys on my first run (through the yellow doors). But on my second run, I got 1110/46/49 and 7 yellow keys (8 once you can re-enter the house), though that isn't quite optimal. Pretty close, though.
08-02-2012 at 02:45 PM
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Ijon Tichy
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icon Re: An as-of-yet untitled, story-less hold (+1)  
Okay, note to self - make yellow key route more appealing. It's pretty obvious which route I tested more...

Obviously I'm going to have to make level 2 use all those yellow keys you guys seem to be getting a hold of - and also a green door that you don't quite have enough keys to open if you entered level 2 with no keys.

Also how are all you people able to out-optimise me on my own damn hold D:
actually i should probably go through from the start for a change

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08-02-2012 at 05:02 PM
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Midootje
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icon Re: An as-of-yet untitled, story-less hold (0)  
I like the outlay of this hold! Areas in blocks, where there is a certain requirement (green key, 16 ATK) to get in, are very appealing to me. Nice job!

I kind of messed up my playthrough, ended with 913/46/50 and 5 keys. However, this seems to be an 'average' score, as there are lower scores and higher scores possible than this. Perhaps this would be the score to focus on when balancing the basic part of the next level(s), and Someone Else's stats would be the score to focus on when balancing those parts of the next level(s) that only good optimisers can reach.

Keep up the good work!

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08-02-2012 at 10:23 PM
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Ijon Tichy
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icon Re: Lost Cause (0)  
Well, I fixed the "can only enter house once" issue, made the yellow key route more appealing (removed a door, added an attack and defense gem), and added a proto-story.
Turns out that I was skimping really heavily on the ">70hp and you're better than me" - I got 1083/47/51/197 with 2/0/0/0 as my keys on a more-or-less unoptimised "yellow doors to green key" run. I guess it also helps that I don't really know how to best optimise.

At least the yellow door route is a good one now (and oh hey, there go two of your yellow keys).

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08-03-2012 at 01:09 AM
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Lamkin
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icon Re: An as-of-yet untitled, story-less hold (0)  
Good to see you back. (Of course I remember Monkey.)

Well, this hold got me playing RPG again...after around a year-and-a-half (hypens there?) absence. (I couldn't pass up the opportunity to play a Monkey hold.)
I *think* I did okay (though I definitely could've optimized a little better); my ending stats were 1306/47/51/232 with two yellow keys.


[Last edited by Lamkin at 08-03-2012 07:23 AM]
08-03-2012 at 07:10 AM
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Blondbeard
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icon Re: An as-of-yet untitled, story-less hold (0)  
Are the preasure plates behind the lesser devils in 1N4W suposed to be toggleing? I guessed they where supposed to close the doors, making it impossible to get the gems by first killing the lesser devils.

Anyway... I think you made the swing go in the other direction now. There's no way you won't want to open the doors and get the ATK and DEF gem now. The greckle gate choise is now not such a good option. My stats after beating the Tarantulas: 487/37/48/12/0/1.

Oh, and my advise would be to procede with the next level before doing any serious revisions. I think it's probably easier to fix larger things once you have a more complete hold.

[Last edited by Blondbeard at 08-03-2012 07:49 AM]
08-03-2012 at 07:39 AM
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Midootje
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icon Re: An as-of-yet untitled, story-less hold (0)  
Stats after beating Tarantulas:
445/37/48/6/0/1. Still looking good, although the greckle gates were no option at all at this point.
And for the complexity of this hold, Blondbeard, isn't it better to first balance the first level correctly? Necessary changes later will require more shifting around, it would seem.

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08-03-2012 at 04:07 PM
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Blondbeard
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icon Re: An as-of-yet untitled, story-less hold (0)  
Well... That is pobably valid, but I think it's good to have a raw picture of the finnished product, which you can polish. And there are too many projects that just die. I think it's a bit better to have a semi-compleated work that needs polishing than a few levels that needs extra levels. A bit more likely that the project will be compleated :)
08-03-2012 at 05:10 PM
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Ijon Tichy
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icon Re: An as-of-yet untitled, story-less hold (0)  
Yeah I had a feeling the pendulum swung too far. Maybe just some health (or nothing at all)?
Also, yes, the doors in the second brain room (what are these coordinate things you speak of) are meant to toggle. I guess I could change one of them to a more permanent choice, although if I start up on more levels, the change is going to be a lot more permanent (ah, the ripple effect, how I hate thee).

By the way, half the time I'm on a computer, I can't work on DROD projects at all - having a 1024x600 screen tends to limit things a bit (inb4 "I CAN PLAY DROD RPG ON 320x200 NO PROBLEM"). But that's when I work on my Doom mods (stuff like parkour mods), so eez all gud.

Also, because I really really loathe redoing a whole hold because I boogered up in one spot, I was thinking of including a mechanism at the start of all levels past level 1 to either set your stats to what would be average (forfeiting score checkpoints for the level) or to what would be (what I think is) optimal (forfeiting score checkpoints for the rest of the hold). So if someone does badly and just scrapes by an area (or finds out that they weren't doing /quite/ well enough), they don't have to replay the entire hold if they're willing to forfeit score checkpoints for the rest of the level/hold. Dunno how good that sounds like to you more-hardcore-than-me DRPGer's, but it's worth a sounding. Think I should do it?

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08-04-2012 at 03:31 AM
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Blondbeard
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icon Re: Lost Cause (0)  
Yep. I think it's an excellent idea, for multiple reasons. You can use that feature to see what score you "should" have, and what score you could have. And you can use it to just play the hold.
08-04-2012 at 06:29 AM
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Gordius
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icon Re: Lost Cause (0)  
Obviously this isn't the intent, but as this stands, you can currently get the blue key as soon as you have access and then avoid the tarantulas by using CMD to hop back to the first room. This probably isn't the only place this trick would be useful; it's just where I thought of it. I like the idea behind making it easy for players to jump back to the beginning and I see how it helps the layout of multiple areas, but I don't think this is a good solution.

More minor: as things stand, the script for entering the house at 1S5W can only run once, so if you don't do everything your first time in, you lose that opportunity.
08-04-2012 at 01:40 PM
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Someone Else
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icon Re: Lost Cause (0)  
Yeah, I got far over 2000 hp by doing that, without optimizing.
08-04-2012 at 02:25 PM
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