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Trickster
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icon Beethro's Speech in Second Level: 2S3E (0)  
Second Level: 2S3E

Beethro's comment is strange for two reasons.

1) (extremely minor) He doesn't make it until after you kill all roaches, not just the queens.

2) Judging from the scoreboard and quick testing, there is no way to prevent at least one egg from spawning, so he always says what he says (I'm guessing).

Is this achievement even possible? (If so, just let me know that I'm dumb; please no hints.)

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06-18-2012 at 05:16 AM
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Jatopian
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icon Re: Beethro's Speech in Second Level: 2S3E (0)  
1) Why is this a problem?
2) u r dumb

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06-18-2012 at 05:18 AM
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icon Re: Beethro's Speech in Second Level: 2S3E (0)  
Yeah, C&S strikes again. I just did it a second after the post.

n/m :P

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06-18-2012 at 05:20 AM
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icon Re: Beethro's Speech in Second Level: 2S3E (0)  
Jatopian wrote:
1) Why is this a problem?
It seemed to come a bit late was all. I guess if he said it the moment eggs spawned, the goal would be too obvious? But as it currently stands, it's not entirely clear what Beethro means by "kill them cleanly".

This is especially true given:

1) You need to use a secret entrance to perform the trick

2) Most new players aren't going to pull this one off

3) The helpful scroll sitting right there tells you to wait, which is total BS...!

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06-18-2012 at 01:51 PM
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skell
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icon Re: Beethro's Speech in Second Level: 2S3E (0)  
I fail to see a problem here, or a problem with a little (big) adventure red herring.

It might be not possible to detect if it were the queens who were killed, besides I think it is pretty okay as of now so let's leave it as-is.

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06-18-2012 at 02:20 PM
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Jatopian
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icon Re: Beethro's Speech in Second Level: 2S3E (0)  
The scroll gives newbies that hint so they wait until spawn and only one roach spawns, making the whole thing easier for them. It's not a hint for the achievement.

Though, perhaps since you only get to this room by passing through the rooms north of it, that it's not such a necessary hint for newbies.

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06-18-2012 at 03:52 PM
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icon Re: Beethro's Speech in Second Level: 2S3E (0)  
Jatopian wrote:
The scroll gives newbies that hint so they wait until spawn and only one roach spawns, making the whole thing easier for them. It's not a hint for the achievement.

Though, perhaps since you only get to this room by passing through the rooms north of it, that it's not such a necessary hint for newbies.
The scroll confused me for a while. I thought there was a way to jostle the roaches so that the initial spawn would not occur, or maybe that I was supposed to spawn "no more than one egg" since there's nothing there to tell me what "cleaner" would indicate (the achievement for this one is hidden until you unlock). I don't think waiting makes things any easier here. Maybe on a bigger map, or if all nine spaces were occupied, but not for this room. It's eight freaking queens all headed to the same corner.

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06-19-2012 at 04:35 AM
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Jatopian
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icon Re: Beethro's Speech in Second Level: 2S3E (0)  
...and you're not a complete noobcakes anymore. Don't be so dismissive of their struggles; simply dealing with hordes is kind of new to them.

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06-19-2012 at 04:42 AM
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icon Re: Beethro's Speech in Second Level: 2S3E (0)  
Jatopian wrote:
...and you're not a complete noobcakes anymore. Don't be so dismissive of their struggles; simply dealing with hordes is kind of new to them.
Let me rephrase, then. I'm not saying at all that "the room is easy". I'm saying "waiting does not make the room any easier". I think that's true for players anywhere from total nub-buckets to amazeballs.

I could be wrong about that, but the scroll was confusing to me and I spent some time trying to figure out how to use the scroll information to get the achievement. I think even if I were still a newbie I'd be a little confused by that. (If there were a few more roaches it would make a lot more sense, though.)

However, I'm just one wolf, so you're quite right that it may be my unique POV. Just letting you know. :)

EDIT: If there were nine queens there, the scroll would make perfect sense, and the achievement would be easiest to reach by waiting too (though this would not be the best time for the room). It would make the achievement easier which may not be preferable, though.

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[Last edited by Trickster at 06-19-2012 09:49 PM]
06-19-2012 at 09:47 PM
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skell
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icon Re: Beethro's Speech in Second Level: 2S3E (0)  
I think waiting for one roach makes it easier than opening it up and getting exposed to half a dozen of them.

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06-19-2012 at 09:52 PM
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icon Re: Beethro's Speech in Second Level: 2S3E (0)  
skell wrote:
I think waiting for one roach makes it easier than opening it up and getting exposed to half a dozen of them.
If the orb were 29 spaces from the entrance, I'd agree. But you can hit it in 10 turns (or 12, if you don't see the secret), even if you're an Apprentice. It doesn't save you roaches, it just gives you a few extra steps before the spawning event.

I understand the point however. I'm not trying to argue, I'm just sharing my experience. I was personally confused by the scroll and the achievement, because the achievement wasn't described well enough either in the list or in Beethro's hint to know what I was supposed to do...and the scroll that looked like it was there to help was telling me to do something that made the achievement impossible.

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06-20-2012 at 02:41 AM
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icon Re: Beethro's Speech in Second Level: 2S3E (+1)  
I have an idea for modifying the scroll text. Probably to say something like "but doing things the hard way can sometimes feel like more of an achievement".

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06-20-2012 at 03:13 AM
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