Jatopian
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Occasionally it happens that a room which is solvable is not marked as scoreable, for various reasons. I think a little icon in the game window indicating whether a room is scoreable or not might be nice for optimizers.

Perhaps it should also have a third state indicating when one is not connected to CaravelNet and thus one cannot check.

Perhaps we could even put next to the scoreable icon a number representing what place one currently has.

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Panther
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Oh, yes, this is a lovely idea. Scoreable icon plus current place would be very good. Maybe also the first-place move count, too? Though toggleable for those who don't want to see it - F8 maybe? And maybe if there's enough space to put it just under the room window along the bottom border? (Because overtop the room itself like the move counter would block out even more parts of the room, and it would be perhaps a bit too fiddly to have to toggle it on and off all the time.)

Dischorran
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Panther wrote:
And maybe if there's enough space to put it just under the room window along the bottom border?

Only slightly higher so you get a two-level effect with a little path running down the middle?

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Jatopian
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Panther wrote: toggleable for those who don't want to see it - F8 maybe?

Maybe we could just make F7 do double duty. That way F7 toggles both unaesthetic things someone might not want to see. First place move count could be nice too, especially if this thing is toggleable.

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[Last edited by Jatopian at 05-09-2012 09:12 PM]

Syntax
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I love this idea because I generally can't tell from the minimap whether a room is scorable or not...

Tahnan
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For what it's worth, F6 does at least tell you "This room does not record high scores". That's not a replacement for this feature request, because it's an extra step to find out what an icon could tell you at once; just letting y'all know it's there if you hadn't seen it yet.

Banjooie
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File: Ranking.jpg (143.3 KB)
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Pretty simple. When you hit whatever F button it is to see how many moves you've used in a room, and you're connected to CNet, (and maybe you can turn this off in the options menu?)

Right next to it is a trophy icon. If the room's unscorable, there's a red X over it.

If you really want to add this 'top score' business, put the number to the right of the trophy. Put a 1 on the trophy itself until your chance at getting 1 fails, then the 1 changes to a 2, and the right-hand number changes. Repeat until 25, at which point you just fade out the trophy and the number of moves.

Also reduce the font size on the number of moves because that'll get cluttery as all get out otherwise.

Edit: Disregard font size, I'm amazing

PS just click the attachment, it's only 143kb but I understand some of you have internet connections woven from straw

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[Last edited by Banjooie at 05-11-2012 06:56 AM]

Tahnan
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Banjooie wrote:
PS just click the attachment, it's only 143kb but I understand some of you have internet connections woven from straw

You just spent up to six minutes altering a DROD screencap for a feature request thread, didn't you.

Banjooie
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my shame

it is revealed

skell
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The idea is beyond awesomity.

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Chaco
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I would definitely support having something like this in the game - it's information that's already technically available to the game and the player, but that way it's available as you're solving the room, instead of having to go back and forth between the room and the highscores table.

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slimm tom
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I love Banjooie's take on this, because it shows you how you are doing while you're playing, and if you're not aiming for first you can easily see how efficient you need to be for second and so on.

Dischorran
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There must be a way to keep it from hogging the screen, though. Even the existing move counter has hidden the occasional corner brain/secret wall more often than seems strictly necessary.

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Banjooie
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Yeah, you just push them up to either side of the room descriptor.

Lots of room there.

Jatopian
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Banjooie wrote:
Yeah, you just push them up to either side of the room descriptor.

Lots of room there.

This is kind of what I was thinking. I mean, you'd have to miniaturize them a bit, and you still might want to be able to turn them on and off (especially the move counter) but there should be room.

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Schik
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Lots of room?


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Jatopian
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I still see a centimeter or two on either side. There could also be a minimap icon, I guess, like for room lock in FDROD? Don't know if that would be noticeable enough, and would be annoying to look at in a constant state of "can't connect"

There's also maybe the bottom border, like Panther said.

Jatopian wrote: Maybe we could just make F7 do double duty. That way F7 toggles both unaesthetic things someone might not want to see. First place move count could be nice too, especially if this thing is toggleable.

I've been thinking about this and I take it back; there should definitely be two different toggles.

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[Last edited by Jatopian at 05-12-2012 12:16 AM]

Banjooie
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...Yes. Lots of room.

Up to four digits will show up on your screenshot over the white without overwriting the room descriptor on the left, and I bet you could fit at least three over the right.

Barring that, floating over the room name (post 1k moves) has to be less annoying than floating over the room itself.

Jatopian
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I feel like we could use some more detailed input on this from actual optimizers. I rarely optimize, last I checked Banj didn't either.

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Schik
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Banjooie wrote:
...Yes. Lots of room.

Up to four digits will show up on your screenshot over the white without overwriting the room descriptor on the left, and I bet you could fit at least three over the right.

Barring that, floating over the room name (post 1k moves) has to be less annoying than floating over the room itself.

That was just a really long level/room location I could find quickly. You can make a longer one that leaves really absolutely no room. If this were added it would be nice if it actually fit in somewhere rather than float on top of stuff (and yes, it would be nice if the move counter did the same).

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Tahnan
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How about over the minimap? I do consult the minimap, but much more rarely than I consult the upper left corners of rooms.

Personally, I'm all in favor of having some indicator of "this room isn't scorable". Having the actual high-score move counter like that...I'd probably use it, but I can hit F6 just as easily.

Jatopian
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So, tiny icon in the upper right of the minimap, maybe your current ranking to the left of that if applicable? That sound like what you're thinking, Tahnan?

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noma
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If something like this is ever implemented, I predict we'll end up with a lot more optimizers.

Syntax
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noma wrote:
If something like this is ever implemented, I predict we'll end up with a lot more optimizers.

How so? I'd just like to know if a room is scorable or not and I do find it hard to tell from the minimap generally

[EDIT]

So, basically agreeing with Tahnan

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[Last edited by Syntax at 05-20-2012 02:04 PM]

noma
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I meant Banj's idea, but I'm guessing you figured that out. I really should have used quote tags.

You know what made me into an optimizer, albeit an occasional one? The first time that "1st place!" message popped up. Up to that point I was just focused on solving the room. If an "xx place" message had displayed before that, I never really registered it. But I sure noticed that one: Flibbit's Flourish: Humble Beginnings: 1S1E.* I lost it minutes later because of a wall bump (which taught me a valuable lesson--thanks Syntax) but that thrill of a 1st place message sparked a new approach to my playing. In that vein, I think the immediate feedback of seeing how close or far you might be to a 1st place may drive more players to push for those #1's. And I hope I don't give the impression that I have a problem with more optimizers; as far as I'm concerned, the more the merrier.

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[Last edited by noma at 05-20-2012 09:11 PM]

Syntax
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noma wrote:
I meant Banj's idea, but I'm guessing you figured that out. I really should have used quote tags.

You know what made me into an optimizer, albeit an occasional one? The first time that "1st place!" message popped up. Up to that point I was just focused on solving the room. If an "xx place" message had displayed before that, I never really registered it. But I sure noticed that one: Flibbit's Flourish: Humble Beginnings: 1S1E. I lost it minutes later because of a wall bump (which taught me a valuable lesson--thanks Syntax) but that thrill of a 1st place message sparked a new approach to my playing. In that vein, I think the immediate feedback of seeing how close or far you might be to a 1st place may drive more players to push for those #1's. And I hope I don't give the impression that I have a problem with more optimizers; as far as I'm concerned, the more the merrier.

Totally agreed

Was just focused on getting an easier way of knowing if a room is scorable or not.

In any case - the banner thing did it for me in the same way (and VaC too). I didn't even know there were highscores til I saw a "1st Place" so anything that promotes that is all good.

btw - the wallbump room you mention was the one with the long snake right? And you recorded a new demo without the wall agression to keep #1? Not sure if your comment was meant to be sarcastic (ie I stole it) or not

noma
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Syntax wrote:
btw - the wallbump room you mention was the one with the long snake right? And you recorded a new demo without the wall agression to keep #1? Not sure if your comment was meant to be sarcastic (ie I stole it) or not

Yeah, that was the room, but you got first place fair and square. And--see below--you felt pretty bad about it. But I wasn't being sarcastic. It /was/ a good lesson, even though I still occasionally fail to benefit from it.

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slimm tom
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That's pretty cool, noma!

I've been more and more interested in optimizing lately, which clearly shows in my high-score stats, and more specifically in the average score for holds recently played as opposed to holds played a while back.

But then again I'm still more of a completionist, and there are some rooms I just don't feel like optimizing. (mostly horde rooms)

Trickster
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To tack on an addendum, it'd be nice if the icon also told you if this was a secret room or not, and if the room was required or not.

It's easy to forget which rooms are secret when the minimap isn't obvious enough (I just posted a suggestion on this), and while Enter tells me how many secrets I have found, this statistic is never relevant until I conquer the hold and only then what matters is whether or not secrets remain in a given level.

What it doesn't tell me is whether the current room I'm in is a secret room, or whether it is even required for cyan door drops (level clear gates). For most players these are more important to know than scorability.

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