acidwolf
Level: Goblin
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Registered: 04-25-2003
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Hi all, I was just wondering if someone could help me. I am wanting to learn to program but i don't know where to start, what programs to use, etc. I was wondering if someone could give me a hand. cheers

eytanz
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That's way too unspecific for anyone to be able to help you - there are many different programming languages out there, each most suited for different purposes/styles, and each with its own software and entry point. Without knowing more about you, what your background is, or what it is you want to program, and why, any recommendation anyone can make will be totally random. It's like you'd tell us "I want to be a technician" but wouldn't specifiy if you want to know how to repair air conditioners, computers, or refrigerators.



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I got my avatar back! Yay!

bradwall
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If you have never programmed before, and you don't really care too much about what language to start with, I would suggest Visual Basic (or Visual Basic.NET). Almost every other language would requrire you to hand code the Windows interface, whereas Visual Basic has a drag and drop feature for creating buttons and other items.

I have programmed in C, C++, Visual Basic, Java, and other languages and found that Visual Basic seems to be easiest for the beginner. Not that it is really easy, it is just easier. Visual Basic can get very advanced if you want it to.

I would suggest that you go to a book store and find a beginners book on programming with Visual Basic. Some books have a lite version of Visual Basic where you would not have to purchase Visual Basic.

If you want to see a game that I programmed in Visual Basic.NET, you can download it for free at:
http://bradwall.theizzi.com/MyPrograms/MyProgramsIndex.html
The game is called Othello Deluxe 2.0. The other game that I have on there is Stratego and it was programmed in Java.

With the Othello Deluxe game, you have to have the .NET framework installed on your computer for the game to run. This is a free download from Microsoft. You can also download a distributable version from my web site.

acidwolf
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 23
Registered: 04-25-2003
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ok thanks, and how long would it take me to learn it?

bradwall
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Well, it depends on what you want to do. If you just want to learn basic programming techniques, that may not take very long. To create a big game, that could take some time. It really depends on how good of a book you get, how dedicated you are, and how analytical your mind is. Everyone's mind works different and some people really stuggle grasping the concepts of programming and others don't have problems understanding the concepts.

ErikH2000
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acidwolf wrote:
ok thanks, and how long would it take me to learn it?

Well, let's back up. First off, what do you want to do here? Do you want to write games? Do you want to do web stuff? Are you interested in a career in programming within the next two or four years?

Secondly, how committed are you? Is this a let's-see-if-I-like-programming exercise (no shame in that) or are you in it for the long haul?

I think Brad's VB advice is probably good. I started with VB myself and learned a lot about Windows and event-driven programming. But you should probably describe what you are after a little better.

-Erik

____________________________
The Godkiller - Chapter 1 available now on Steam. It's a DROD-like puzzle adventure game.
dev journals | twitch stream | youtube archive (NSFW)

Malarame
Level: Master Delver
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Definitely start with VB. However, there's something you should remember: it takes a long time to be able to program really well. I've been programming for years in multiple languages, and I'm still not very good. Don't expect to be able to start learning and within a few months make a great DOOM clone. I stupidly assumed I could do something like that when I first started, and the result was a lot of frustration on my part that took away from the fun of programming. Finally, I realized that I should start slow and do something simple, then progress slowly to harder things. Just take it slowly and don't assume you don't have to practice at it. Don't just read a book and assume you understand everything, because you won't.

____________________________
Matt O'Leary
Webb Institute
Class of 2007

"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll be glad to make an exception."
-Groucho Marx

acidwolf
Level: Goblin
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Well I want a career in programming, maybe making games or something... but I got no idea where to start. I'm still in High School, and I just wanted to know the best way to approach learning it. Since I got no money to go out and buy the books, where would be the best place to start learning it??

ErikH2000
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acidwolf wrote:
Well I want a career in programming, maybe making games or something... but I got no idea where to start. I'm still in High School, and I just wanted to know the best way to approach learning it. Since I got no money to go out and buy the books, where would be the best place to start learning it??

Well, what do they teach at the high school for programming? They've probably got some programming software installed in the lab, right? You are short on money, but unlike most people, have access to a lot of free resources as a student. You might let what the school has to offer influence where you begin. When you are starting out with programming, it is good to write some of the dumb little programs that they make you write in class--like sorting a list of numbers.

But other than that, I'd go with VB, for reasons expressed earlier by Brad.

I'm not sure what you have around you, but in Washington there is a store called Half-Price books where you can get used software really cheap. There's probably something like that near you, and you could pick up VB6 for maybe $30. I know you're a penniless student, but if you bug your parents or uncles or whatever, you should be able to scrape up some dough for a worthy cause. Or go sell newspapers or drugs or something.

As for books, they help a lot, but if you have VB, it installs with a complete reference and a nice tutorial. The net abounds with VB info. Here is one thing I found within 5 minutes of googling:

http://www.free-ed.net/fr03/lfc/030202/120/

Once you get VB installed, work through a tutorial to figure out the lay of the land. Then come up with a really simple first project, like a tic-tac-toe game, and see if you can program it.

-Erik


____________________________
The Godkiller - Chapter 1 available now on Steam. It's a DROD-like puzzle adventure game.
dev journals | twitch stream | youtube archive (NSFW)

Zmann
Level: Master Delver

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ErikH2000 wrote:

I know you're a penniless student, but if you bug your parents or uncles or whatever, you should be able to scrape up some dough for a worthy cause. Or go sell newspapers or drugs or something.

What the heck are you teaching the kid?? You get a whack on the head.
Actually, you get multiple whacks on the head.



Wow, I love those smilies.

ErikH2000
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Zmann wrote:
What the heck are you teaching the kid??

Sorry, just a joke. My dark side comes out every now and then.

I advise the precious youth *NOT* to sell drugs. And no pimping or extortion rackets either.

-Erik


____________________________
The Godkiller - Chapter 1 available now on Steam. It's a DROD-like puzzle adventure game.
dev journals | twitch stream | youtube archive (NSFW)

Schik
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ErikH2000 wrote:
I advise the precious youth *NOT* to sell drugs. And no pimping or extortion rackets either.

I'm not all that young - does this mean it's okay for me to sell drugs?


____________________________
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way it treats its animals.
--Mahatma Gandhi

ErikH2000
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

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Schik wrote:

ErikH2000 wrote:
I advise the precious youth *NOT* to sell drugs. And no pimping or extortion rackets either.

I'm not all that young - does this mean it's okay for me to sell drugs?

Yes! ...I mean, no. Oh, do what you want.

-Erik


____________________________
The Godkiller - Chapter 1 available now on Steam. It's a DROD-like puzzle adventure game.
dev journals | twitch stream | youtube archive (NSFW)

acidwolf
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 23
Registered: 04-25-2003
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I go to a poor school in New Zealand, where the closest thing to programming is learning to use Microsoft Word, argh..

Malarame
Level: Master Delver
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ErikH2000 wrote:
And no pimping or extortion rackets either.

What about kidnapping and holding people for ransom? Can we do that?

____________________________
Matt O'Leary
Webb Institute
Class of 2007

"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll be glad to make an exception."
-Groucho Marx

agaricus5
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1838
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I do believe that this poor topic is spinning off from the original theme(s) into the wild and potentially dangerous unknown...

I think we should stop this discussion on criminal activities for money and go back to the original question of the programming languages and which is best for acidwolf.

Thank you.

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Resident Medic/Mycologist

Mister
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 104
Registered: 02-27-2003
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Back to topic, it isn't even needed to learn a language to learn how to program. Right now, I'm teaching my little brother to deal with variables, events and stuff using a game called "RPG Maker". It will not teach you how to program, but it can "guide" your mind into the right direction.

<nostalgic mode on>
I, myself, started with Basic, back in the old days of the Atari...
<long memories cut>

levelthirteen
Level: Master Delver
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Registered: 02-20-2003
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ErikH2000 wrote:
I'm not sure what you have around you, but in Washington there is a store called Half-Price books where you can get used software really cheap. There's probably something like that near you, and you could pick up VB6 for maybe $30. I know you're a penniless student, but if you bug your parents or uncles or whatever, you should be able to scrape up some dough for a worthy cause. Or go sell newspapers or drugs or something.
http://www.free-ed.net/fr03/lfc/030202/120/
-Erik

Java is free, and has the tutorial online. java.sun.com
I have done a little in java, and it is the language that all the applets online are written in. No drugs required to get started!

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Fatel exception occurred. Post will terminate.

ErikH2000
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acidwolf wrote:
I go to a poor school in New Zealand, where the closest thing to programming is learning to use Microsoft Word, argh..

Oh, sorry. Not everybody goes to schools with nice budgets for this stuff. Well, what can I say... be resourceful and work with what is available to you. People tend to help you out after they see you're serious.

There's lots of free programming languages on the internet. These tend to be more difficult to begin with than a slick all-in-one development environment like Visual Basic. A side benefit of learning VB, is that you learn something useful for a programming job, unlike say BlitzBasic ( http://www.blitzbasic.com/ ) which is geared towards amateur game programmers. But truthfully, somebody your age should probably just try to find a start somewhere and graduate to more refined languages as they go.

If the money thing is really an issue, Java is not a bad choice. It's just kind of a pain to start out with. With VB you just open up the VB editor and it manages all of your project files for you. Java doesn't come with an IDE (integrated development environment). So unless you hunt around for one and maybe spend some money, you have to edit files with a simple text editor and know more about how to build a program with them.

-Erik

____________________________
The Godkiller - Chapter 1 available now on Steam. It's a DROD-like puzzle adventure game.
dev journals | twitch stream | youtube archive (NSFW)

The_Lucky_Mutt
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 35
Registered: 05-27-2003
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Personally, (considering you've had several weeks with VB), I would try out euphoria, I find it helpful and quick (I made a DROD clone in just 2 hours). It's also very high speed, may not matter to you but it does to me as I do neural network stuff.

www.rapideuphoria.com

- TLM

[Edited by The_Lucky_Mutt on 05-27-2003 at 10:04 AM GMT: forgot to give you the site]

acidwolf
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 23
Registered: 04-25-2003
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BUMP!

Hi all,

I don't know if any of you even remember this thread at all (or even remember me ), but I want to thank you all for the time you spent all those years ago for helping me out; I am now working as a software development team lead for a company that is considered global leaders in providing the most comprehensive mobile banking / payments solution to many top banks around the world.

I guess in case any of you are wondering, I finished high school and did a 3 year degree at our local tech institution where I learned Delphi, Java and .NET C# (as well as some low level hardware C and some ASM) and basically just landed this awesome job where I initially started as a Java mobile developer (and over the last few years was exposed to many .NET technologies) and pretty quickly moved into a full-time C# core server developer and just recently moved into a team lead position.

Anyway enough mumbling about myself I just wanted to thank all those who took the time out to help me, your help was greatly appreciated and I want to acknowledge it as it helped me get to where I am today.

Thanks!

Banjooie
Level: Smitemaster

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Uh...wow, awesome.

UrAvgAzn
Level: Smiter

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Congratulations, acidwolf!

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Such grief, such joy, to live at all."
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Samuel
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 69
Registered: 07-08-2007
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Congratulations!

It's good to see that the information people provided you with on the forums helped you to become a professional programmer.

Good Luck!

____________________________
I believe in everything until it's
disproved. So I believe in fairies,
the myths, dragons. It all exists,
even if it's in your mind. Who's to
say that dreams and nightmares
aren't as real as the here and now?
John Lennon