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Mattcrampy
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The Eighth is a big place, with lots of things on it. Most of these things aren't really well defined. Sure, there's mountains and cities all over the place, and big Hundred-Foot walls that probably could have been fifty feet and continents that killed all the happy people (long story). But apart from Dugandy, it's all a bit hazy.

So let's do some exploring.

Actually, screw that. It's cold and wet out there, and you have to do all the hiking without any promise of a breathtaking view or something to bring home to show the kids. Let's do a Contiki tour.

The August 2004 contest is to come up with the details of some place on the Eighth (you might find the Map of the Eighth helpful, which is here: http://www.drod.net/TheEighth/TheMasterMapoftheEighth.html) and write it up like a tourist guide. Or, if you want, an advertisement, or indeed anything that gets the point across - this is the cool stuff, this is the boring stuff, one of our writers died trying to do this, so make sure you've got life insurance, that sort of thing.

Firstly, you'll need to choose a place. Anywhere will do, it doesn't have to be somewhere on the Map, but you'll need to decide where it is anyways. You can't, however, use Dugandy (where Beethro lives), or a user-made hold unless you've asked the hold-maker's permission. (They'll have to tell me you have their permission.) It goes without saying, but be consistent with what we know about the Eighth (about the only thing you'll have to remember is that the Eighth floods every year, so you'll have to deal with that).

Second, come up with some details. You'll want some variety in your sights, so get those thinking caps on.

Thirdly, make it neat. What we're looking for is for you to show off all the features of your locale in a way that would entice tourists to come. Anything that does that will do, be it a travel guide, an advertisement from the tourist bureau, a photo album (this is me and Madge at the sacred Journey of Hornsnar, and this is me with Hornsnar), even a poster. You could try a hold if you wanted, but remember the idea is to appeal to people, so the more effort it takes for people to get to your sell, the less likely they're going to try. Let's just say I'll be surprised if a hold wins.

Fourth, send it to me at mattc at caravelgames.net. Entries close on Sunday the 16th of August, 11:59pm GMT, which seems as good a time as any to finish. Keep it under a megabyte, thanks.

At that time, I'll put everything up for voting in the General forum, where people will vote on who they thought were the top three. It's a little more cut-throat than normal, but you're competing for the tourist dollar here. Plus I know how talented you all are, so I know it'll be close.

The winner receives 100 rank points and something from the DROD store, second place gets 75, third gets 50. Everyone who enters gets 10 rank points, and everyone who gets a vote but doesn't get a prize gets another 5. So hop to it already! I want to see what (or is that where?) you come up with!

Matt

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08-01-2004 at 04:07 PM
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masonjason
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I've already started. Question. Are we allowed to use pictures from the master map?

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08-01-2004 at 06:49 PM
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agaricus5
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quote:
Mattcrampy wrote:
Thirdly, make it neat. What we're looking for is for you to show off all the features of your locale in a way that would entice tourists to come. Anything that does that will do, be it a travel guide, an advertisement from the tourist bureau, a photo album (this is me and Madge at the sacred Journey of Hornsnar, and this is me with Hornsnar), even a poster. You could try a hold if you wanted, but remember the idea is to appeal to people, so the more effort it takes for people to get to your sell, the less likely they're going to try. Let's just say I'll be surprised if a hold wins.


Since we're talking about how "nice" the place is, and attracting "tourists" in the meantime, would I be correct in thinking that the description must be as positive as possible?

So, for example, describing the disease-infested swamps of Meldro and its blood-thirsty inhabitants (mosquitoes included) at some length wouldn't be terribly good for your sales pitch, correct?

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08-01-2004 at 08:04 PM
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gamer_extreme_101
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I'm in. Wait'll you see what I'm doing...

quote:
agaricus5 wrote:Since we're talking about how "nice" the place is, and attracting "tourists" in the meantime, would I be correct in thinking that the description must be as positive as possible?
Read the beginning of the article a bit more. He also says:
quote:
Mattcrampy wrote:Or, if you want, an advertisement, or indeed anything that gets the point across - this is the cool stuff, this is the boring stuff, one of our writers died trying to do this, so make sure you've got life insurance, that sort of thing.
If it's something of interest, I'd put it in, no matter how disgusting or gruesome it is.



[Edited by gamer_extreme_101 on 08-01-2004 at 07:13 PM GMT]

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08-01-2004 at 08:13 PM
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agaricus5
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gamer_extreme_101 wrote:
Read the beginning of the article a bit more. He also says:
quote:
Mattcrampy wrote:Or, if you want, an advertisement, or indeed anything that gets the point across - this is the cool stuff, this is the boring stuff, one of our writers died trying to do this, so make sure you've got life insurance, that sort of thing.
If it's something of interest, I'd put it in, no matter how disgusting or gruesome it is.
[Edited by gamer_extreme_101 on 08-01-2004 at 07:13 PM GMT]

I know that, but...

He also says this:

quote:
Thirdly, make it neat. What we're looking for is for you to show off all the features of your locale in a way that would entice tourists to come. Anything that does that will do, be it a travel guide, an advertisement from the tourist bureau, a photo album (this is me and Madge at the sacred Journey of Hornsnar, and this is me with Hornsnar), even a poster. You could try a hold if you wanted, but remember the idea is to appeal to people, so the more effort it takes for people to get to your sell, the less likely they're going to try. Let's just say I'll be surprised if a hold wins.


And this:

quote:
At that time, I'll put everything up for voting in the General forum, where people will vote on who they thought were the top three. It's a little more cut-throat than normal, but you're competing for the tourist dollar here. Plus I know how talented you all are, so I know it'll be close.


I'm good at description, but the style I use is probably too over-detailed for this competition. I like to describe in such a way that it gives you as much information as it is possible for me to come up with, so you can picture it yourself if you imagine hard enough. The problem with this is that it will probably get too boring/dense from a tourist's point of view, and so it probably won't be the right approach to take.

Until I get a bit more confirmation about exactly what the rules are, I'm probably not in, since the "style" of writing that appears to be required is not the sort of thing I'm any good at (as with most of these creative contests).

[Edited by agaricus5 on 08-01-2004 at 07:32 PM GMT]

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08-01-2004 at 08:30 PM
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masonjason
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Another question. Are there printing presses on the Eighth, or is everything hand-copied?

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08-01-2004 at 08:32 PM
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swann_88
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quote:
Are there printing presses on the Eighth


I would think this is irrelevant
you are appealing to people outside the eighth

08-02-2004 at 03:53 AM
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masonjason
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swann_88 wrote:
quote:
Are there printing presses on the Eighth


I would think this is irrelevant
you are appealing to people outside the eighth


If that's so, how are they going to get to this tourist destination? Of course, I'm trying to appeal to the populace of this forum so I can do well in the competition, but I want my entry to look like it comes from the Eighth.

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08-02-2004 at 10:35 AM
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gamer_extreme_101
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Argh. Here's a couple of questions.

1. How technologically advanced is the Eighth, or more specifically, Ephelna? If there is no real answer, I'll just assume that they are as technologically advanced as we currently are.

2. Are we allowed to use pictures from DROD holds (in my case, the overmap of a level) in the tour guide?

3. Are we allowed to use photos from the internet if we link directly to them instead of including them in our package?

Edit: Hehe. This contest is just what I need for my new hold! :)

[Edited by gamer_extreme_101 on 08-02-2004 at 04:54 PM GMT]

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08-02-2004 at 05:47 PM
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masonjason
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quote:
gamer_extreme_101 wrote:
Argh. Here's a couple of questions.

1. How technologically advanced is the Eighth, or more specifically, Ephelna? If there is no real answer, I'll just assume that they are as technologically advanced as we currently are.

2. Are we allowed to use pictures from DROD holds (in my case, the overmap of a level) in the tour guide?

3. Are we allowed to use photos from the internet if we link directly to them instead of including them in our package?

Edit: Hehe. This contest is just what I need for my new hold! :)

[Edited by gamer_extreme_101 on 08-02-2004 at 04:54 PM GMT]

I'm not sure about how technologically advanced the Eighth is exactly, but I'm pretty sure that it's not beyond the technology of our eighteenth century. And for number two, I'm quite sure the answer would be "if you get the permission of the hold creator". I'll leave the third one for someone who knows a bit more about copyright law.

[Edited by masonjason on 08-02-2004 at 07:17 PM GMT]

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08-02-2004 at 08:16 PM
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gamer_extreme_101
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Thanks for the answer on #1, I was refering to using my own hold for #2, and I decided to use my own, fairly bad drawings instead of #3.

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08-02-2004 at 09:25 PM
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DiMono
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As far as copyright law, this falls under the catagory of "Fair Use". You are not profiting monetarily directly through the use of their material, and you are (presumably) citing your source to give proper credit.

This is analogous to quoting someone in a school essay. You're giving credit to the original author, and you're not directly profiting except in the long-run (better mark = better university = better job = more $). As long as you make it quite clear that you were not the original source of the image, legally it's okay for you to use it.

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08-03-2004 at 01:05 AM
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Mattcrampy
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I've already started. Question. Are we allowed to use pictures from the master map?


As far as using the Master Map, I'll wait for Erik's word, but something tells me he'll probably be okay with it. I'll wait for confirmation.

quote:
Since we're talking about how "nice" the place is, and attracting "tourists" in the meantime, would I be correct in thinking that the description must be as positive as possible?


If you're in the mood for irony, be annoyingly positive, otherwise, you could try a Lonely-Planet style thing. I remember a postcard lurking around the depths of Space Quest III that was showing off beautiful Arrakis (the desert world from Dune, which contained monstrous sandworms and little in the way of plantlife).

Of course, you'll have to come up with a reason for people to want to go there in the first place.

quote:
Until I get a bit more confirmation about exactly what the rules are, I'm probably not in, since the "style" of writing that appears to be required is not the sort of thing I'm any good at (as with most of these creative contests).


This is the one thing I've been actively trying to avoid for this contest. The judging will be more on concept and creativity rather than writing, which is why I've thrown open what I'm accepting to essentially anything under a megabyte. If you feel your writing will be too dense, write it as a first-hand account from a tourist, all too happy to give all the details. If it's well-written and entertaining, I reckon we'll race through it.

quote:
Another question. Are there printing presses on the Eighth, or is everything hand-copied?


There are no printing presses on the Eighth, however it probably won't be that far off. So most things are hand-copied, although they're usually not nearly as unreasonable as Earth monks were about the gilded edges and intricate drawings. In any case, you can present it as a 'modern reconstruction' if you can't get around this restriction any other way.

quote:
1. How technologically advanced is the Eighth, or more specifically, Ephelna? If there is no real answer, I'll just assume that they are as technologically advanced as we currently are.


As a general guide, the Eighth can be placed probably about yhe beginning of the Renaissance (which, as I recall, really exploded with the invention of the printing press, which probably won't be far off), with a few notable exceptions: gunpowder exists but is outlawed in most places (so no guns), boats are quite advanced, around 18th century (thanks to the regular floods, skilled boatmakers are prized), Eighthers are much more aware and interested in geography (again, around 18th century). So the concept of a fledgling tourist industry isn't exactly unlikely, although mostly restricted to the upper/upper-middle classes.

Also, unlike most fantasy-type worlds, there is no (amendment: very little, see below) magic whatsoever (sufficiently advanced technology notwithstanding).

quote:
2. Are we allowed to use pictures from DROD holds (in my case, the overmap of a level) in the tour guide?


Keep it under a meg, and get permission if it's an existing hold. You need to get them to contact me so I know. Otherwise it's fine.

quote:
3. Are we allowed to use photos from the internet if we link directly to them instead of including them in our package?


Sure, but I'll count it as if it was included as part of the package.

Matt

[Edited by Mattcrampy on 08-04-2004 at 09:05 AM GMT]

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08-03-2004 at 09:39 AM
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gamer_extreme_101
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...Can we write the guide as if it was trying to get people from Earth to visit the Eighth?

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08-03-2004 at 03:08 PM
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So, what, talk about how it's not overpopulated, and the air is actually breathable?

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08-03-2004 at 03:53 PM
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Think about it : The Eighth would be a perfect vacation destination. No worries about e-mail or cell phones, clean air, and it would be like travelling back in time. I'd go there.

Oh yes, and:
quote:
Also, unlike most fantasy-type worlds, there is no magic whatsoever (sufficiently advanced technology notwithstanding).
I loved to hear the explinations for Mimic potions and invisibility potions, as with orbs and doors.


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08-03-2004 at 04:04 PM
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agaricus5
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gamer_extreme_101 wrote:
Think about it : The Eighth would be a perfect vacation destination. No worries about e-mail or cell phones, clean air, and it would be like travelling back in time. I'd go there.


What about Dungeon (and land) Monsters, the threat of Rooted Hold, and Onsuary Floods every year?

I wouldn't visit the Eighth unless I had assurance that I was on a high area of ground, far from any dungeons or monster breeding areas, and in a well-populated area with some experienced local smitemasters.

quote:
Oh yes, and:
quote:
Also, unlike most fantasy-type worlds, there is no magic whatsoever (sufficiently advanced technology notwithstanding).
I loved to hear the explinations for Mimic potions and invisibility potions, as with orbs and doors.


Mattcrampy, you really do need to read the Story Collaboration thread at some time.

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08-03-2004 at 04:51 PM
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Mattcrampy
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Whoops.

My information comes from Erik mentioning in passing that initially he was content to let everything run on magic, but eventually decided he wasn't happy with that. So, an amendment:

There is very little magic on the Eighth. Places with overabundances of magic are probably out of place.

(I understand Erik has an explanation for orbs and doors that comes into play later on in Beethro the Delver.)

quote:
...Can we write the guide as if it was trying to get people from Earth to visit the Eighth?


Not explicitly. There's the old problem of how to get people from Earth to the Eighth. If you like, you can write a travel guide type thing with an Earth person travellig around, saying how other Earth people would find it. But the Eighth isn't really aware of Earth. Think of how Roundworld beings reacts to the Discworld interferers, if you've read the Science of Discworld.

(snippy replies removed in order to keep thread on track)

Matt

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08-04-2004 at 10:03 AM
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agaricus5 wrote:

Mattcrampy, you really do need to read the Story Collaboration thread at some time.


I'm pretty sure the story collaboration is not an official part of the Eighth cannon. Parts of it may be incorporated into the official version, but the decision on what's really on the Eighth is Erik's, not the forumites.

Think of the story collaboration (and this contest, I think) like the map contest - different people post their visions of the Eighth. Erik than picks and chooses what he wants of it, and that becomes cannon. The rest is good entertainment, but not a good source of info.

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08-04-2004 at 12:42 PM
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Mattcrampy wrote:
As far as using the Master Map, I'll wait for Erik's word, but something tells me he'll probably be okay with it. I'll wait for confirmation.

Using the map or other media on the site for contest entries is definitely fine with me.

-Erik

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08-04-2004 at 07:06 PM
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Time's runnin' out, people. I've got one entry so far, so someone's going to have lots of rank points.

Remember, in this contest creativity is more useful than a rapier wit.

Matt

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08-10-2004 at 01:53 PM
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Watch. Mine'll come in at the last minute. I've got so much other DROD stuff to work on my head's gonna explode!

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08-10-2004 at 04:03 PM
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quote:
ErikH2000 wrote:
Using the map or other media on the site for contest entries is definitely fine with me.

-Erik

Does this also include graphics from the game as well?

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08-12-2004 at 12:26 AM
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Sure, that's fine.

-Erik

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08-12-2004 at 01:12 AM
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Mattcrampy wrote:
Fourth, send it to me at mattc at caravelgames.net. Entries close on Sunday the 16th of August, 11:59pm GMT, which seems as good a time as any to finish. Keep it under a megabyte, thanks.


Oh, well, I don't think I'll make it on time for you. I've been too busy to do much on it, so I think I'll miss the deadline. Perhaps I'll send it to you as an external thing, separate from the contest, if I can't get it in on time.

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08-15-2004 at 12:35 AM
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I'd like to apologize for not participating - I really wanted to, but a combination of jet-lag and other things that kept popping up meant that my entry is currently still lodged in my mind and not in electronic form...

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08-16-2004 at 01:01 AM
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I'm in much the same boat, unfortunately. Too much to do, too little time, and then there was the contest. I guess I just have to look forward to the September contest.

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08-16-2004 at 05:55 PM
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It's midnight, GMT from where I'm standing in London. This forum seems to be an hour behind.

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08-17-2004 at 12:02 AM
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Firstly, apologies for the delay - someone cut the phone cables in their basement, so I've been frantically trying to work out how to connect to the Internet.

I have three entries. I'd like one more, so I'm extending the deadline until Friday 20th, 11:59pm GMT. But that'll be it.

Matt

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08-17-2004 at 01:46 AM
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Mattcrampy
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Okay, entries have CLOSED. For real, this time.

Matt

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08-21-2004 at 03:49 AM
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