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DiMono
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icon July 2004 Contest: Least Number of Moves! (+1)  
Well, it's Canada Day, so Erik and Matt decided it would be a good idea to turn to a Canadian for this month's DROD contest. So far, we've had contests to design holds, to be the first to complete a hold, and even a songwriting contest that is still being judged as I type this. A bunch of us tend to aim for efficient solutions to rooms as it is, so why not make a contest out of it?

I've architected a hold for this month's contest, which you can either find attached to this post, or at this here link. The hold consists of six puzzle rooms, which you may do in basically any order, and these are the only rooms that count. There's also an exit room that everyone really should have the same move total for (1) so we'll just ignore it for our purposes. Since this is a new kind of contest, we had to make up some all new rules for judging it, and here they are still in the original packaging:

Record your victory demos for the six puzzle rooms. They don't have to be consecutive, they don't have to line up, they just have to be full demos, from room-enter to blood-stained-room-exit, including the step in to the next room. Once you're done with all six rooms, feel free to play them over to lower your move counts as low as you can. The point of this contest is to have as few moves taken to conquer the six rooms as possible, and it's the move total that matters. I was able to shave almost five hundred moves off my totals, so it's worth taking the time to replay the rooms looking for different, innovative solutions.

Between July 15 and July 20, add up the move totals in your demos, and post up the sum in a reply to this thread. You only get to enter once, so make sure you've done your best! On July 21, I'll swoop in and post the first, second, and third place winners, who will then have to zip and post their demo files in the thread so we can all see just how you got such a low number.

Note: 3W is a mimic room, and the keystrokes you use to place a mimic are counted in the demo total, and since that's the number we're going by, you'll need to be efficient in placing them as well. Every keystroke counts!

The most efficient person will receive 100 rank points and an item from the DROD store.
Second place will get 50 rank points
Third place will get 25 rank points
Anyone who beats my move total, whether one of the top three or not, will get 10 rank points just for doing it! So if you have the tenth-best move total, but yours is lower than mine, then even though you didn't finish in the top 3 you still get a prize!

Because it is truly possible to have a tie in this contest, we had to come up with some tie-breaking rules. I wanted to go with best-looking, but Erik didn't like that, so we decided to simply add up the prizes covered by the tie and spread them evenly among the winners. So if two people share the second-lowest move total, they will each get 38 rank points (50+25 split two ways, rounded up). If two people share first place, they will each get 75 points and an item from the store. If thirty people all split first place, the DROD store is going to lose money this month, and all thirty people get 5 points each.

The hold is anyone-edit, because there's not really any reason for it not to be, and to have a valid entry you must have valid victory demos for all six puzzle rooms. Best of luck to you all, and I'll see you in 20 days!


[Edited by DiMono on 07-02-2004 at 01:07 AM GMT: Stupid lost attachment when previewing bug...]

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07-02-2004 at 01:52 AM
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gamer_extreme_101
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icon Re: July 2004 Contest: Least Number of Moves! (0)  
Jeez, I already have a question.

Because the rooms aren't linear, how do you want us to count the moves on the entrance, because you'll have to be in that room at least 4 time. Should we just measure our time to complete the room and head to an exit, or should we count moves moving from entrance to entrance? My concern with the former suggestion is that people will head to the nearest exit, so if we do it that way, can we standardize an exit to go to? Remember, it's your call. I'm just a person who asks too many questions :?.

BTW: Have a good Canada Day wherever you are. Right here in Moose Jaw, Sask it's about THIS close to raining, so there goes my idea to watch the fireworks :~( !

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07-02-2004 at 02:13 AM
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Stuwy
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icon Re: July 2004 Contest: Least Number of Moves! (0)  
Awwww crap! I contest I want to do and I'll be on vacation! Even a canadian contest! Oh well, theres always an august contest :P

Edit: in Winnipeg I can see the fireworks at a festival/theme park place that is about 10km away, pretty good view right now but I think I'm spent for the night. Had some beers with a couple buddies of mine and I have to work early tomorrow. Happy Canada day to all!

[Edited by Stuwy on 07-02-2004 at 04:19 AM GMT]

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07-02-2004 at 05:15 AM
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Scott
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icon Re: July 2004 Contest: Least Number of Moves! (0)  
The way I read it its just from starting the room to exiting not crossing over the room once its complete. So it seems to me that you want to finish the room and leave from the closest exit.

I will ask about 1 west though. Its the only other room that has 2 exits. You can leave to the east or the west. Do you want demos where the exit used is the west or is it ok to leave via the east?
07-02-2004 at 06:05 AM
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Mikko
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icon Re: July 2004 Contest: Least Number of Moves! (0)  
Should the first room be solved from where you first start or can it be done from another entrance?

Can we post updates on how we are doing (true or false :P ) to keep things interesting for the first couple of weeks?
07-02-2004 at 01:51 PM
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DiMono
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icon Re: July 2004 Contest: Least Number of Moves! (0)  
Alright... it's only the number of moves to conquer the rooms that matters, trips through them don't make any difference. If you want to drop every trap door in the entrance on your way from 1N to 1E, that's your business, and won't be held against you. It doesn't matter which way you enter or exit a room, just aim for the fewest moves to complete the room. If that means leaving the way you came in for 1W, then so be it.

And feel free to post your progress if you want to, it's totally up to you.

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07-02-2004 at 03:54 PM
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masonjason
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icon Re: July 2004 Contest: Least Number of Moves! (0)  
I swear that these rooms are hard enough to solve without getting good times on them. You and your damned efficiency rooms, DiMono! :fun I'll conquer them all, though. Oh yes, I will...

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07-02-2004 at 05:57 PM
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DiMono
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icon Re: July 2004 Contest: Least Number of Moves! (0)  
quote:
masonjason wrote:
You and your damned efficiency rooms, DiMono! :fun I'll conquer them all, though. Oh yes, I will...
Actually I was just going for rooms that could be done a number of ways. I was able to find five different ways to conquer 1N, it's all about finding the right one :)

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07-02-2004 at 09:40 PM
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Mikko
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icon Re: July 2004 Contest: Least Number of Moves! (0)  
I think 1N will easily be the most important room. I've used almost as many moves on it as on the five others together. And I haven't even tried to improve my first and only result on 3W yet.
07-02-2004 at 10:36 PM
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RoboBob3000
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icon Re: July 2004 Contest: Least Number of Moves! (0)  
Just so we can have an idea of what to shoot for, do you think you can tell us how many moves you got, DiMono?

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07-02-2004 at 11:18 PM
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Scott
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icon Re: July 2004 Contest: Least Number of Moves! (0)  
I still haven't solved 3 west yet. Evil room.
07-03-2004 at 12:09 AM
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eytanz
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icon Re: July 2004 Contest: Least Number of Moves! (0)  
Bah. I realized that according to the rules if I keep my total here that would count as an entry, and I really don't want to have the score I posted as an entry (I already improved it by around 300, for one thing, in 10 minutes).

Sorry about that.

[Edited by eytanz on 07-03-2004 at 12:17 AM GMT]

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07-03-2004 at 01:01 AM
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eytanz
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icon Re: July 2004 Contest: Least Number of Moves! (0)  
I must say, by the way, this contest is far too long - 3 weeks is way too much time for this sort of thing. Our community is small enough that basically everyone who is going to participate will already have done so by July 15th at the very latest, probably even earlier.

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07-03-2004 at 04:54 AM
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DiMono
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Well, I feel it would be good to keep some mystery about my exact number, but I'll tell you all that my total is between 2000 and 2500 moves. And remember, it's the moves registered by your demo that counts for 3W, since it's very difficult to verify the actual number. I think that's my favourite room in the hold, actually.

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07-03-2004 at 04:55 AM
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eytanz
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icon Re: July 2004 Contest: Least Number of Moves! (0)  
I'll be out of the country during the week of July 15-21st - would it be ok if I send you (DiMono) the demos and score early and you can post them on my behalf when the time comes?

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07-03-2004 at 05:51 AM
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DiMono
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quote:
eytanz wrote:
I'll be out of the country during the week of July 15-21st - would it be ok if I send you (DiMono) the demos and score early and you can post them on my behalf when the time comes?
Sure thing my friend, you know where to find me.

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07-03-2004 at 07:06 AM
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swann_88
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icon Re: July 2004 Contest: Least Number of Moves! (0)  
quote:
my total is between 2000 and 2500 moves


sigh I have a long way to go then
1 south took me 1400 + moves the first time

edit

went back to it and did 3 w (the only room I hadn't done)
scott I don't think its the hardest room in this hold but anyways
my total so far is not as bad as I thought
dimono first hold of yours I have played that didn't leave me looking like Marty Feldman
of course thats a good thing since you are making me play it more than once


[Edited by swann_88 on 07-06-2004 at 12:45 AM GMT]
07-06-2004 at 01:11 AM
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DiMono
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quote:
swann_88 wrote:
dimono first hold of yours I have played that didn't leave me looking like Marty Feldman
Thanks... I think. Actually, I just realized that when I release it to the Holds forum after the contest is over I'll have to change 1W for those who leave a tar baby alive and exit to the west. ...need to add an arrowed passage back to the tar.

Anyway, ten days left before entries can start being laid. Still plenty of time for everyone to replay the rooms and get their move numbers down. Remember, for the mimics in 3W it's the number of moves recorded by the demo, so if it says 387 and you really only took 369, it's the 387 that counts.

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07-06-2004 at 04:07 AM
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agaricus5
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icon Re: July 2004 Contest: Least Number of Moves! (0)  
quote:
Mikko wrote:
I think 1N will easily be the most important room. I've used almost as many moves on it as on the five others together. And I haven't even tried to improve my first and only result on 3W yet.

I agree. 1N and 1S take up the largest proportions of moves, and those are the rooms that really decide your overall total.

The hold is quite nice overall, although 1N is a bit annoying in places since the delay between horde batches is often just 1 or 2 moves short of what you need to advance. Grr.

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07-06-2004 at 09:58 PM
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masonjason
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icon Re: July 2004 Contest: Least Number of Moves! (0)  
I'm worried I won't be able to even conquer 3W... but I haven't tried that much yet, so I probably will eventually. When I first saw 1S I just thought "OMG how is that possible" but then it was actually quite easy.

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07-06-2004 at 10:03 PM
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quote:
1N is a bit annoying in places


really?
the only room I find really annoying is 1 south
I am trying so hard to save moves and everywhere I turn its wait wait wait
07-06-2004 at 10:10 PM
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agaricus5
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icon Re: July 2004 Contest: Least Number of Moves! (+1)  
I just noticed this:

quote:
DiMono wrote:
Between July 15 and July 20, add up the move totals in your demos, and post up the sum in a reply to this thread. You only get to enter once, so make sure you've done your best! On July 21, I'll swoop in and post the first, second, and third place winners, who will then have to zip and post their demo files in the thread so we can all see just how you got such a low number.


The problem with this is that it will give people who post in their results late a psychological advantage over those who bravely post first. This is because people who have not disclosed their values may be inspired to try again and beat values posted here before submitting them, even if they were originally going to sumbit their value anyway.

With that argument, can I suggest a slight change to this particular rule?

Rather than having people posting their number publicly to this thread, we should have people posting the number via PM or e-mail secretly to you, so no-one will know who is entering (making it more competitive for newer players) and what other people's scores are until the results are posted.

[Edited by agaricus5 on 07-06-2004 at 10:55 PM GMT]

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07-06-2004 at 11:55 PM
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Doom
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icon Re: July 2004 Contest: Least Number of Moves! (0)  
I think thereīs one bad thing about this competition. The rooms are way too difficult for a beginner (at least theyīre too difficult for me).

Hereīs my thoughts of some rooms.

1S:
Click here to view the secret text


1N:
Click here to view the secret text


3W:
Click here to view the secret text


Maybe Iīm the only one who canīt make it through all of these rooms but if the goal of the contest is to complete all rooms as quickly as possible they could be at least "a bit" easier.

Just my thoughts... Maybe Iīll just try a little harder :?

What do you think of that?
07-07-2004 at 12:32 AM
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Scott
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icon Re: July 2004 Contest: Least Number of Moves! (0)  
Don't worry Doom you aren't the only one. I haven't been able to beat 3W yet.
07-07-2004 at 12:44 AM
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agaricus5
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quote:
Scott wrote:
Don't worry Doom you aren't the only one. I haven't been able to beat 3W yet.


Well, patience is key here. Don't remove anything you need to use before you've utilised it, or for that matter, uncover anything that you certainly don't want before you are out of its influence.

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07-07-2004 at 12:54 AM
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Doom
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icon Re: July 2004 Contest: Least Number of Moves! (0)  
Yeeha!I just beat 1N. Maybe I can still do it! :)
07-07-2004 at 01:05 AM
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eytanz
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icon Re: July 2004 Contest: Least Number of Moves! (0)  
My advice for 1S - try solving it without caring about the turn count. Figure out where you need to stand relative to each wraithwing in order to get it to block a snake. Then, after you can kill the snakes, start thinking about how to do it faster.

Oh, and one thing you might want to do, if you're not used to wraithwings, is to build a dummy room in the editor with just a wraithwing in it, and see how it moves relative to you. Wraithwing movement is the key to 3S, and it's tricky to master (especially since they move differently in groups - that's not relevant to this room, but if you only played with them in King Dugan's Dungeon you may be expecting different behavior)

[Edited by eytanz on 07-07-2004 at 12:25 AM GMT]

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07-07-2004 at 01:23 AM
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DiMono
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icon Re: July 2004 Contest: Least Number of Moves! (0)  
Hmm... how about you're allowed to change your number once you've posted it. So you can post up 2400 moves on July 15, then if you suddenly chop 300 moves off 3W you can change your post to say 2100 moves, and you just need to PM me to let me know you've done it. Then there's not really any weakness to posting early, because you can always improve your timing.

Also, I've talked things over with Schik, and he agrees it's a good idea to hand out some more points with this contest. In addition to first, second and third places, and 10 points for beating me, anyone who has the lowest move total for a room will get 5 points more. So if you finish in second place, your move total is lower than mine, and you complete 1E in the fewest number of moves, you get 65 points. Everyone can win!

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07-07-2004 at 02:17 AM
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icon Re: July 2004 Contest: Least Number of Moves! (0)  
doom

my comments on your comments

1s once you kill 1 snake you have safe places to stand

1n don't leave any queens alive behind you

3w there are several spots to trap the mimics so that you only have to move 1 at a time

oh and you did make sure you are recording victory demos right?
I would hate for anyone to be solving rooms for nothing


07-07-2004 at 02:22 AM
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eytanz
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quote:
swann_88 wrote:
1n don't leave any queens alive behind you



Once you get past the first few queens and reach the center of the room, it doesn't matter which direction you go, there will be queens behind you.


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