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Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Holds : 3lv (easy hold)
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2.8/10 (35 votes)
σ 1.92
Author Name:alpo
Submitted By:Alberttox2
Hold Name:3lv
Theme:easy hold
Author's Difficulty:
Number of Levels:3
Number of Rooms:7
Number of Monsters:97
Version:DROD: The City Beneath (3.2)
High Scores:View High Scores
Hold Karma:0 (+0 / -0)
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File: 3lv.hold (2.1 KB)
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icon 3lv  
not hard only 1 secret. my first hold
07-02-2009 at 10:42 PM
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Tahnan
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icon Re: 3lv (+1)  
While I have to appreciate the enthusiasm of first-time architects, this hold is dramatically underdeveloped. Three of its rooms are empty of anything beyond a staircase; three of its rooms are nearly trivial. (The secret room I found to be genuinely interesting; not overly hard but non-trivial and with definite potential.)

As with other holds I've rated, I haven't gone to the architecture thread to see what suggestions, if any, there were; but I would strongly recommend that alpo, and other first-time architects to come, spend some time getting feedback on their holds and editing accordingly.
07-02-2009 at 11:33 PM
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Dischorran
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icon Re: 3lv (+1)  
You know that room that you made when you were just starting out and curious about the editor? The one where you plunked down a few walls and maybe a couple roaches and rattlesnakes, just to see how it all works?

Remember when you then exported your test room and a couple others like it, posted them to General, and then to Architecture? And then saw this big shiny "Submit Hold" button and just had to press it right away to find out what it did? You probably don't, because most of us don't do that. But Alpo did.

Nonetheless, I can't actually dispute Alpo's description of the hold, so this has that going for it. It is indeed easy, there is indeed only one secret, and it is indeed Alpo's first hold. And, of course, one need only look at this hold's neighbors in the depths of the holds list when sorted by rating to see that many first holds of this caliber are followed up by perfectly good constructs.

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07-03-2009 at 03:56 AM
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zex20913
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icon Re: 3lv (+1)  
Not everything needs to be epic.

This sort of brought me back to the olden days, when smiting wasn't entirely comprised of brain-melting puzzles. I'm not saying I want those back, but it's good to have a cupcake hold every once in a while.

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07-03-2009 at 05:12 AM
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mxvladi
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icon Re: 3lv (+1)  
While this hold is terribly easy, it's always nice to see something which helps to relax from harder holds. There were no places where this hold was particulary annoying, and optimizing of it was quite fun(particulary optimizing of first room). Also, secret room was quite nice. 1 for difficulty, 4 for fun.

[Last edited by mxvladi at 07-03-2009 11:55 AM]
07-03-2009 at 11:31 AM
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Tahnan
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icon Re: 3lv (+1)  
quote:
zex20913 wrote:
Not everything needs to be epic.

But I think that's a misstatement of my criticism. Edit to note: zex20913 didn't actually direct that at my post. But I've heard "holds don't need to be large/hard/etc. to be good!" before, and specifically in response to other times that I've criticized a hold the way I have here. So.

Note that this hold comes to us less than 24 hours after Directions of the Compass 2, an eight-puzzle-room hold which I rated much higher, I assure you (and said it was "worth the time it takes to play"). I don't think holds need to be epic.

What I objected to is the fact that three of the rooms had nothing but staircases--no monsters, no decoration, just bit empty "and now on to the next level" spaces; and of the three remaining (non-secret) rooms, two of them involve stationary monsters. In one of them you might get yourself into trouble if you accidentally release one of the rattlesnakes that are immobilized, but in the other you can't die even if you wanted to. That's what I meant when I called the rooms "trivial": you might have fun optimizing them, but in terms of actual actions, five of the six (non-secret) rooms in this hold involve almost nothing more than walking through them.

A look at the architecture thread in fact confirms what I speculated earlier: the time between Alberttox posting the hold to Architecture (July 1, 7:39am EDT) and the time it appeared here (July 2, 5:42pm EDT) is thirty-two hours. Given that the HAs "put a 24 hour minimum on the time between a submittal and a hold board appearance", that means he left at most eight hours to get feedback from players. I think that sort of thing ought to be discouraged. And again, I based that earlier comment not on the timestamps (which I didn't check), but rather on the fact that the hold felt like something that could have benefited from polishing, if only the architect had taken the time.

(If this sounds familiar, it's because I said much the same thing about The Great Adventure: "it certainly plays as if the architect didn't bother getting comments on it (or else did but ignored them)"; "Put it in architecture, wait for people to play it and give you comments, and then change your hold based on those comments. That's how to make a good hold." This I believe.)

[Last edited by Tahnan at 07-03-2009 02:11 PM]
07-03-2009 at 02:09 PM
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Tim
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icon Re: 3lv (+1)  
This is a simple, easy, short, functional and good for a coffee break that even moderately new DROD players can enjoy.

However, for seasonal players who expects a full-blown, frustrating or epic hold, I'd suggest them to ignore this one.

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07-06-2009 at 12:03 AM
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neveragain
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icon Re: 3lv (+1)  
3 1/2 brains
2 overall

This hold is pretty easy, which isn't a bad thing. The only remotely hard room is the secret room, which is why this is 3 1/2 brains, not 1/2 a brain.

The major problem with this hold is that it just looks terrible.

There is no Entrance descriptions, no hold description, and no ending description. The exit rooms are poorly constructed, with an exit plopped randomly in the room, making it look horrible.

Again, there's nothing wrong with an easy hold. But it has to look at least remotely professional to be a good hold.

Feedback is important. Give people time to play it, and listen to their comments. If they say your hold is extremely terrible, it is terrible. When they give you comments, act on them.
07-09-2009 at 04:36 AM
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skell
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icon Re: 3lv (+1)  
Yet another more or less awful hold I encountered during my quest of conquer. Really, there is nothing I can add what has not been said yet. The secret room was nice though and is the only reason I gave it 3 instead o 1.

Fun - 3
Difficulty - 1

I think I will play The Consequence or go to sleep now, these easy holds make me dizzy...

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08-17-2009 at 11:28 PM
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Jatopian
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icon Re: 3lv (0)  
You should sleep, skell. It's good for your brain~

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08-18-2009 at 12:12 AM
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Odyssey
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icon Re: 3lv (+1)  
I rate this hold a 1 for fun and a 1/2 brain. But, due to the fact that you managed to incorporate another element, makes it a brain rating of 1.

Standard hack and slash with not a lot of skill required, unless you are very new to the game. Instead of 4 guards, I would recommend a lot more, and possibly limiting the number of moves via tar/mud/gel mothers or briars.

I'm no expert architect; I am new to making holds myself. But this did not look like much thought was put in... however, I do like the nice flower pattern on Level 2.

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09-18-2009 at 05:05 PM
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jbluestein
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icon Re: 3lv (+1)  
Not much to this one.

One actually interesting room. A few others that were very easy and had almost no puzzle to them.

Overall, it was about what I was expecting from the rating...but I would have been pleased to be surprised.

One brain of difficulty. Three for fun.

Josh

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09-21-2009 at 03:17 PM
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12th Archivist
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icon Re: 3lv (0)  
I heard that this hold was particularly easy. So, I decided to make it a bit more challenging by trying to get a death count of zero while giving a running commentary of it (that I post after I finish the hold).

Let us start, shall we?

level 1: Entrance: A nice start. Easy, and not too trivial to moderately new players.
level 1: Once West: An empty room. Quite unfinished looking, but I guess it's adequate at serving as a level exit.
level 2: Entrance: If the player waits until the rattlesnakes are trapped by the brains, this room becomes quite trivial.
level 2: Once South: See "level 1: Once West".
level 2: Secret Room: Hardest (and not to mention most enjoyable) room I've seen so far. From an aesthetic standpoint, the room is plain and unfinished.
final level: Entrance: A brain by itself is no, or zero, challenge. Zero times anything is still zero. Therefore, multiple brains are no more challenging than a single brain. At least the room looks a little nicer than the other rooms so far.
final level: Once East: While there is no point to this room, at least it isn't unfinished looking. Perhaps the best looking room in the hold.

Easy to conquer. Easy to master. Not much material here is suitable for a player who has gone through some of the "better/harder" holds published. If I were to give tips for making better holds, the only one I would give is "Listen to your testers".

2 brains
3 fun
24/100 approval rating

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[Last edited by 12th Archivist at 06-13-2010 02:07 AM]
06-13-2010 at 01:22 AM
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Jatopian
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icon Re: 3lv (0)  
06-13-2010 at 01:48 AM
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12th Archivist
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quote:
Jatopian wrote:
6%? Ouch!

I thought the rating should simply be the product of the brain and fun rating, but that would mean many easy holds would be rated poorly.

So I changed it to approval rating, based on multiple, unseen factors. 24/100 isn't much of an improvement, though. I wouldn't recommend many people playing it.

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[Last edited by 12th Archivist at 06-13-2010 02:08 AM]
06-13-2010 at 02:06 AM
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Banjooie
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icon Re: 3lv (0)  
I sincerely want more extremely basic holds with a suddenly badass secret room out of nowhere.

Can't believe that thing actually took me multiple tries.
06-29-2010 at 10:25 AM
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west.logan
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icon Re: 3lv (0)  
The secret room was good, the rest seemed rather mindless. Glad to see people attempting to build things though!

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04-27-2011 at 01:34 AM
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