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Jacob
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File: Token Effort.hold (11.8 KB)
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Here's a new hold, currently 23 rooms, hope you like.

Thanks

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[Last edited by Jacob at 05-30-2009 06:35 PM]
05-12-2009 at 07:54 PM
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Neather2
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 icon Re: Token Effort (0)  
I find a lot of new ideas of puzzles here, playing it.

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Conspiracy, my new hold, has just been released.
05-12-2009 at 08:03 PM
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mxvladi
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File: TE Token Nonsense 2N1W Victory.demo (938 bytes)
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 icon Re: Token Effort (+2)  
Great rooms so far.(woah, I've solved 7 rooms in Jacob's hold! :w00t )

2N 1W seems to be quite similar to 1N 1W though(of course with its own little trick, but that trick was too easy to find out) - was that intended? Or did I solve that unintended way?(attached demo to compare solutions)

Comments on rooms I've solved so far:

Click here to view the secret text

[Last edited by mxvladi at 05-12-2009 08:53 PM]
05-12-2009 at 08:44 PM
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Jacob
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Thanks for the comments

Going by your comment on 1N1W and your demo of 2N1W it looks/sounds like you've done them both the intended way. So I'm slightly puzzled as they've got quite different solutions
Click here to view the secret text


If that's what you've done, then I'm happy.

2N's not really meant to be challenging, just a kind of gateway to the rotator annex.

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05-12-2009 at 09:32 PM
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mxvladi
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File: Token Effort demos.demo (3.7 KB)
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Jacob wrote:
So I'm slightly puzzled as they've got quite different solutions
Click here to view the secret text


If that's what you've done, then I'm happy.

Yep, that's what I've done. I meant that order of pressing tokens is the same in both rooms, that's what I thought is similar in them.

Anyway, I've conquered almost all of the rooms(I might need hints for some of room I haven't solved yet, but that's later, when I'll completely give up ;) )

Click here to view the secret text


Oh, by the way, is 4N possible in current version or will it be possible only when player will be able to acess it from the east? if it's possible in current version then I'm totally mising the solution... :weep

Since I've solved pretty much rooms, I'm giving demo of my solutions for all the rooms. I'm quite sure I've done everything in intended way, but just to make sure...
[Last edited by mxvladi at 05-12-2009 10:08 PM]
05-12-2009 at 10:04 PM
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Jacob
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Thanks again.

None of those solutions are unintended.

Don't forget, you've got 1S and the other secret room to solve, in addition to the ones you mention!

4N is definitely possible from the south (and only) entrance; you're probably just over-thinking it. It's definitely not as hard as some of the other rooms you've completed.



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05-12-2009 at 10:39 PM
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mxvladi
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once south:

Allright, either I'm totally dumb or it's impossible to kill golem at 18,9. None of bombs blow up hit it.

Note: I remember there was some kind of fix of bug with bombs blowing up against direction of force arrows in some of latest patches... maybe that's why I can't blow up golem at 18,9(I have latest build of 3.2)? And as far as I see there's no other way to kill it. :no

And by the way, if that golem would blow up I would complete room without using decoy poitons.
[Last edited by mxvladi at 05-13-2009 11:55 AM : oops so many little mistakes in post should be more observant next time]
05-12-2009 at 11:01 PM
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mxvladi
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One required room left: 2S 1W.

...

And, unfortunately, I don't know how to start it... :( Any help on how do I stop gel/mud from pressing the pressure plate at 31,13 would be appreciated.

And comments on rooms I've solved:

Click here to view the secret text

[Last edited by mxvladi at 05-13-2009 07:43 PM]
05-13-2009 at 12:15 PM
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Jacob
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Thanks for working through this. Glad you're enjoying it.

Solution for 1S1W is indeed as you describe, so I'm glad you think it's awesome (I was aiming for a kind of thinking-outside-the-box, lynchpin-type solution).

I thought I had the latest version of DROD (build 83), but guess not, since the bombs kill the golem fine for me.
Have attached a new version with that golem removed. I'd be keen to see how you complete the room with no decoys.

As for your final (required) room, some hints:
Click here to view the secret text


Edit: After that you've only got the final secret room to get.
It may be my most challenging room yet.

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My Holds and Levels:
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[Last edited by Jacob at 05-13-2009 09:58 PM]
05-13-2009 at 09:53 PM
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TFMurphy
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File: Token Effort Demos.zip (2.3 KB)
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License: Public Domain
 icon Re: Token Effort (+1)  
I'll take those challenges.

Attached are demos for 1S (without decoys) and 2S1W (without using the method mentioned in secret tags).

EDIT:
Click here to view the secret text


As for patches, the latest is the Beta: Build 85. The thing is, the last beta (Build 84) was the one that fixed bomb explosions, and that's been around since last September. The fact that it's been in beta for so long is unfortunate, but it really is a good idea to prepare for that particular fix.
[Last edited by TFMurphy at 05-14-2009 06:24 AM]
05-14-2009 at 04:31 AM
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mxvladi
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I've mastered the hold now.

I've solved 2S 1W in TF's way though. I understand the intended way but haven't managed to do it in intended way yet...

and my way of solving 1S is the same as TF's.
[Last edited by mxvladi at 05-14-2009 05:55 PM]
05-14-2009 at 11:47 AM
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Jacob
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Thanks. I feel a bit dumb about both those rooms. They should be fixed now.

I kept your solution of 1S, because I think it makes for a fairly good room, and have added in a secret version.

After this I'll add in the remaining 3 or so rooms I have planned, and will be done with the hold.

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05-14-2009 at 07:58 PM
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mxvladi
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File: TE Token Nonsense 3S2W Victory.demo (1 KB)
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Secret version of 1S is possible without decoys.

:(
[Last edited by mxvladi at 05-14-2009 08:09 PM]
05-14-2009 at 08:07 PM
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mxvladi
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File: TE Token Nonsense 2S1W Victory.demo (1.1 KB)
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2S 1W is still possible using TF's way.

:(
05-14-2009 at 08:11 PM
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Jacob
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Oh dear. I suck.

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05-14-2009 at 08:26 PM
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mxvladi
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Is it just me or the hold isn't attached to the first post now? -_-
05-17-2009 at 08:14 PM
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Jacob
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Took it down while I finish it off.

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05-19-2009 at 12:40 AM
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Jacob
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New version up.

Changed the problem rooms from the last version, made a couple of aesthetic changes and added in a couple of rooms (Admittedly, they're not very exciting).

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05-26-2009 at 09:16 PM
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mxvladi
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File: TE Token Nonsense 2S1W Victory.demo (1.1 KB)
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Uh... 2S 1W is *still* possible using TF's way... :~( It seems that 3S 2W works fine now though.

The new rooms are quite easy. I like 3N 1W more than 3N 1E since it has better and a little harder solution.
[Last edited by mxvladi at 05-27-2009 03:31 PM]
05-26-2009 at 09:29 PM
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mxvladi
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In 3S 2W, I used only one decoy. Is this intended?
05-26-2009 at 09:42 PM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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I've played through this one. A very nice, colorful hold, showcasing some very clever uses of tokens. I have a feeling that most of the bugs have already been worked out of this hold, and that my solutions are all intended.

Click here to view the secret text
05-28-2009 at 08:07 AM
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Jacob
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Thanks CSR, your input is always welcome.

All your solutions sound intended.

I have now added an enforced 2S2W and kept one where it's possible to do it "TFMurphy's way" (blocking off gel expansion using Beethro and babies) and not "our" way, since I like both solutions. Both are required, not sure if I make one of them secret/unrequired.

I think I'll probably call it a day here (maybe adding in a master wall if I can come up with anything else). The arrow rotator puzzles are a bit of a letdown, but I ran out of inspiration.

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05-28-2009 at 05:19 PM
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mxvladi
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File: TE Token Nonsense 3S1W Victory.demo (1.1 KB)
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Adding invisibility poiton has made TFMurphy's solution impossible in 3S 1W indeed. However, making gel babies arrive at 31,12 and 31,14 at turn 30/the spawn time is VERY easy now and doesn't require making trapdoor paths for them(in my solution I've dropped only 6 trapdoors just to make gel morthers spawn two gel babies at third spawn). I can simply step out of brain's line of... um... smell, and wait a few turns.

Demo attached to demonstrate that.
[Last edited by mxvladi at 05-28-2009 10:03 PM : made a little clearer what I meant saying "turn 30"]
05-28-2009 at 06:10 PM
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TFMurphy
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File: Token Effort.png (321.7 KB)
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You can actually get away with just dropping 2 trapdoors in the Invisibility Potion variant.

Anyways. An alternative method of removing my solution is to reduce the trapdoor area. If you remove all trapdoors within the rectangles (25,5)-(30,7) and (25,19)-(30,21), add four trapdoors to fill in the gaps at (24,5), (24,6), (24,20) and (24,21), and replace the remaining three eastern trapdoors on each side with oremites, then your solution will still work, but there won't be enough to get back to the Gel at Turn 120 to cause the final required blockage.

Also, your intended solution is still possible in 2S1W. One way of removing that might be to remove the trapdoors at (15,8)-(16,8) and (15,18)-(16,18). Alternatively, replace those parts - (15,8)-(16,9) and (15,17)-(16,18) - with oremites, since that works just as well here.

EDIT: As an example, I've attached an image of two different versions of the room. Your original solution works in the left image but not in the right, and my alternate solution works in the right but not (that I could find, anyways) in the left.
[Last edited by TFMurphy at 05-28-2009 07:02 PM]
05-28-2009 at 06:41 PM
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Jacob
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I knew it wouldn't be that easy!

Thanks for the feedback. I'll probably go with TFMurphy's versions.

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05-28-2009 at 07:17 PM
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Jacob
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Have posted a new version with trapdoors arranged as TFMurphy suggests.

However, I'm not good enough to solve it in that way (blocking gel with babies and Beethro), in either room.

My way works in the top one, so obviously I'd rather the other solution only worked in the bottom one.

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05-28-2009 at 10:43 PM
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TFMurphy
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It's now possible to solve 2S1W without dropping any trapdoors.
Click here to view the secret text
05-29-2009 at 01:40 AM
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Jacob
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TFMurphy wrote:
It's now possible to solve 2S1W without dropping any trapdoors.

Good point. As usual I was trying to be too clever for my own good. I've now isolated the two rooms so no arrows are needed.

I still can't seem to time the gel spawning correctly to block it off - could someone please confirm that the room's doable in that way?

Thanks.

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05-29-2009 at 04:56 PM
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mxvladi
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Jacob wrote: I still can't seem to time the gel spawning correctly to block it off - could someone please confirm that the room's doable in that way?

Sure.

EDIT: :selftwak
[Last edited by mxvladi at 05-29-2009 05:45 PM]
05-29-2009 at 05:12 PM
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Jacob
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Sorry, I wasn't clear.
*That* I can do (since that was my original intended solution).

It's the TFMurphy-style solution I haven't managed to replicate.

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05-29-2009 at 05:21 PM
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