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The Stew Boy
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icon Re: RPG Hold Anonymous: 2 (0)  
Nuntar wrote:
The Stew Boy wrote:
I was able to get 42... Unless the level's been changed since your post?
The level hasn't changed, but it's possible that I missed an ATK gem hidden under a monster or only available through scripting?

I count:
2 ATK gems in 6N4W
4 in 6N2W (6)
2 in 6N2E (8)
5 in 4N4W (13)
1 in 4N2W (14)
3 in 4N (17)
3 in 4N2E (20)
4 in 4N4E (24)
2 in 2N2W (26)
1 in 2N (27)
4 in 2N2E (31)
10 ATK given in Entrance (41)

2N2W has 3 atk gems - one's hidden under a roach.

[Last edited by The Stew Boy at 05-25-2009 10:32 PM]
05-25-2009 at 10:32 PM
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Someone Else
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DROD has crashed on me three times now while I was playing this. There's no pattern to the crashes, except for one thing: I lose 10 attack every time it happens.
EDIT: Never mind. Old version of DROD.

[Last edited by Someone Else at 05-27-2009 12:15 AM]
05-26-2009 at 12:47 AM
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Dex Stewart
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Chaco wrote:
-It's tricky, but possible in 4N4E to use the mirror to snuff out both fuses and never trigger the 25% bombs.

Could you give a couple of hints on that?
05-26-2009 at 08:02 PM
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Someone Else
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Yeah.
Major spoilers for the room:
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05-26-2009 at 11:38 PM
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Someone Else
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The Guardian should probably have Imperative: Face player.
05-27-2009 at 12:44 AM
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The Stew Boy
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Dex Stewart wrote:
Chaco wrote:
-It's tricky, but possible in 4N4E to use the mirror to snuff out both fuses and never trigger the 25% bombs.

Could you give a couple of hints on that?

You could always do what I did - make sure your health is fairly low when entering the room, forget the mirror, grab the attack gem and leg it. Since the bombs only do 25%, you won't lose much health if you only get hit by one.
05-27-2009 at 09:03 AM
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Nuntar
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icon Re: RPG Hold Anonymous: 2 (0)  
OK, I'm reading everyone's silence as "we're happy to leave Level 1 as it is", so let's move on to Level 2. If anyone does still want to change their rooms on Level 1, just let me know.

Here's what you need to know:

Room assignations
Dex Stewart: 2N, 4N
Chaco: 2N1W, 2N1E
hyperme: 3N2W, 3N2E
mxvladi: 4N1W, 4N1E
The Stew Boy: 3N1W, 3N1E
Someone Else: 1N1W, 1N1E
Jeff_Ray...: 2N2W, 2N2E
Nuntar: 1N, 3N

Rules for Level 2
* Multiplier for this level is still x1, not x2.
* Style for this level is Aboveground. Do not change the style or the weather settings.
* To complete the level, the player must open two blue doors and fight a boss. I will decide on the boss's stats after everyone has created their rooms.
* You may not edit anything on the edge squares of your rooms.
* Other than the things prohibited in the above rules, anything (except copyright violation) is acceptable. Any use of scripting, custom monsters, custom equipment, custom media etc is fine.

Other pointers
* Expected starting stats are 40 ATK, 40 DEF (with sword and shield; base stats 30/30). Recommended starting enemies are Mud Baby, Antlion, Neather for small damage; Grey Man and Mad Eye for higher damage. Higher-up enemies may be fought if stat boosts are available.
* The player's initial HP may be anything from under 100 to nearly 1000, or nearly 2000 if the player skipped the Level 1 boss. I want skipping this boss to be a viable option, so while you may create rooms that reward the player still having the invisibility potion, please don't make it necessary to still have it to progress. Don't worry about the player being short of HP at the very start of the level, since he can always go back for those two large potions on Level 1, which you can expect most players not to have taken.
* The player is likely to start this level with a large number of yellow keys -- assume ten. Do bear this in mind when constructing your rooms. But also bear in mind that choices do not necessarily become trivial just because there is no shortage of keys; giving up a key is still giving up ten points.
* The player will receive a short sword (+30 ATK, replacing the Foil's +10 for an overall gain of +20) on beating the boss. Be aware that this will make it possible for adventurous players to fight the boss as early as possible and use the ATK bonus to make the rest of the level easier.
* Do try not to go overboard with the gems, especially ATK.
* Music and secret room rules are the same as for Level 1. I hope this time someone will be interested in making at least one secret.

Deadline: 4 June, 12 noon GMT

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[Last edited by Nuntar at 05-28-2009 01:28 AM]
05-28-2009 at 01:26 AM
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Dex Stewart
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Nuntar wrote:
* Do try not to go overboard with the gems, especially ATK.
Deadline: 4 June, 12 noon GMT

Should we read this as you saying that you believe we did go overboard with the gems?

Also, I apparently didn't read the rule regarding secret rooms. I probably would have made one otherwise :(.
05-28-2009 at 01:41 AM
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Nuntar
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icon Re: RPG Hold Anonymous: 2 (0)  
Level 1 contains 32 ATK gems. It's not a huge problem as it's the first level, meant to be easy, but that many on later levels (especially once the multiplier starts getting above x1) would be a problem. On the other hand, too few would also be a problem, especially if people designing the later rooms put in harder monsters in the expectation that the player will have more ATK than he does.

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05-28-2009 at 02:09 AM
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The Stew Boy
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32 attack gems... that's an average of nearly 3 per room. There are 23 defense gems too, I believe, which is about 2 per room.
Also, with the highest possible attack of 42, that'd be 26 gems until 68, which is about 1.5 per room in the second level.
So, perhaps a suggestion to the participants would be to not have more than 2 attack gems in a room?

Edit: Okay, I've managed to finish level one with 15 yellow keys, which seems slightly ridiculous. I hope people will make sure they are used.

[Last edited by The Stew Boy at 05-28-2009 07:28 AM]
05-28-2009 at 07:03 AM
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Nuntar
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Still waiting for contributions from Someone Else and mxvladi. I'll sent out reminder PMs now -- I know I should have done this earlier, but Iji has taken over my life this week to such an extent that I completely forgot the deadline was coming up :cool

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06-04-2009 at 02:02 AM
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Someone Else
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Yeah, me too. I'll get that done in the next half hour.
06-04-2009 at 03:03 AM
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Jatopian
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icon Re: RPG Hold Anonymous: 2 (0)  
shouldn't this be in Architecture?

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06-04-2009 at 08:28 PM
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Nuntar
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icon Re: RPG Hold Anonymous: 2 (0)  
OK, here's what we've come up with.

I've left my rooms blank for now as the level has some serious problems that I think need to be fixed quickly -- then I'll put in my rooms and then we'll have the "making changes after seeing the outcome" round proper.

* 1N1E uses a Mud Mother as an enemy. Too easy for this level. (Remember, unlike Tar Mothers / Babies and Gel Mothers / Babies, Mud Mothers are an easier monster than their babies. I know it's daft, but it's the way it is because of the TotS monsters they correspond to.)
* 4N has a large amount of health just lying around. Also, doorwalking can be used to kill the brain, and I don't see any incentive for reaching the mirror.
* Possible problem: the pickaxe, which is easy to obtain, can be used to hack one of the larger bonus stashes and get a blue key. Yes, it could be that there will be something better it can be used for later, but if we take that route then the hold will be too easy for the player who's just trying to complete and not optimise. Since there's a blue key and more health than you spent as the reward for beating the Store Horror, do we need the pickaxe as well?
* Not a problem as such but something to be aware of: there are four blue keys and a skeleton key on the level. They are certainly varied in how hard they are to obtain, which makes the harder ones uninteresting as the player will always go for the easier ones.

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[Last edited by Nuntar at 06-05-2009 12:49 PM]
06-05-2009 at 02:34 AM
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Jeff_Ray...
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Nuntar wrote:
* The SE corner of 2N2W, SW corner of 2N1W and west part of 1N1W are inaccessible.
Tried using the tunnels?

Also, I have a problem with the oremite mad eye section, which doesn't blow up the ATK gem if the bomb is used. Could you add a pit next to it?


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06-05-2009 at 12:02 PM
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Someone Else
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Nuntar wrote:

* 1N1E uses a Mud Mother as an enemy. Too easy for this level. (Remember, unlike Tar Mothers / Babies and Gel Mothers / Babies, Mud Mothers are an easier monster than their babies. I know it's daft, but it's the way it is because of the TotS monsters they correspond to.)

Oops. I forgot that.
06-05-2009 at 04:12 PM
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hyperme
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Jatopian wrote:
shouldn't this be in Architecture?

No, because it's a forum game

Also, for the Horror, you could take the potion away. Or boost Atk/Def/Health

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06-05-2009 at 04:21 PM
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Nuntar
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hyperme wrote:
Also, for the Horror, you could take the potion away. Or boost Atk/Def/Health
Sure, I can fix this (and the other problems) myself. I just didn't want to take too authoritarian a role, so I'm offering everyone the chance to fix the problems themselves if they happen to have a particular way they want them fixed.

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06-05-2009 at 04:33 PM
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The Stew Boy
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Nuntar wrote:
* Not a problem as such but something to be aware of: there are four blue keys and a skeleton key on the level. They are certainly varied in how hard they are to obtain, which makes the harder ones uninteresting as the player will always go for the easier ones.
Perhaps put a weapon or shield (or a choice of either?) upgrade after the boss at the end of the level, with the cost being a blue, a yellow and a green key? Or two blue keys?

Edit: Also, can you make it autosave when you enter the 2nd level?

Edit: After playing through the majority of the level, my stats are 815/57/72, keys 2/2/4/1, GR 1022, REP 1502, with the pickaxe. I still haven't collected the 400hp from level 1 yet.
Also, with the pickaxe room, I notice that once you collect the stuff on either side, you can't access the powerup square anymore (without a portable orb, of course). That means, you've got to leave either the invisibility potion, or the pickaxe there (assuming that you haven't used either yet), unless you don't take the treasure until afterward.

Edit: After playing the majority of the level again, my stats are 1374/54/69, keys 4/2/4/1, GR 915, REP 1415, with pickaxe/invis potion (I haven't locked off the area). This is without collecting the stuff in 4N1E, some of 3N2E, and some gems in 1N1W. Or the green key in 2N2W of course.
If I lock off the pickaxe area, I can get 1754/56/71. If I then get the gems in 4N1E, I have 1314/57/72, 941/1441, keys 2/2/4/1. But I think it's worth waiting until more ATK is gained in level three before getting the 4N1E stuff.
The only stuff left from level 1 is a green key/atk gem swap, and a 2 yellow key/400hp swap. Oh, and the 200hp on the lava square in 3N2E, which I forgot about when doing level 1 earlier.

[Last edited by The Stew Boy at 06-06-2009 01:31 AM]
06-06-2009 at 12:23 AM
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Chaco
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A bit of help to everyone who wants to fix their rooms:

===

Projected Guardian Damage: 749

Guardian Defeated!

HP: 1510
ATK: 42
DEF: 43
Keys: 10/1/0

GR: 334
REP: 544

Sword: Foil
Shield: Wooden Shield
Accessory: Invisibility Potion

Score = 496

===

The above is my optimized score in Level 1, with about the same provisions as last time - still having 2x200 health left over behind 2 individual yellow doors, for example. I can also offer that as level 2 stands, it is not hard to get 3 blue keys and ~900 greckles.

I'll have more specific comments for Level 2 later, but I think the most important thing to mention straight away is that as the level stands, it is incredibly easy to get to 2N2E's southmost western entrance and waltz straight up to the brain and kill it. This necessitates either a redesign or adding some sort of block in 2N1E in the southeastern passageway, which is conveniently empty right now.

===

I'm not entirely sure whether I want to adjust my rooms or not. I think they both worked well in terms of ATK or DEF goals.

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[Last edited by Chaco at 06-06-2009 12:25 AM]
06-06-2009 at 12:24 AM
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Dex Stewart
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icon Re: RPG Hold Anonymous: 2 (0)  
For 4N you can just as well remove the health potions or part of them. I was thinking that, since we seem to like percentage-based damage so much, they might offer some choice regarding when to pick them up.

Also, replace the four doors leading to the brain with one blue door.

If you use the mirror properly, not only are you able to hit the goblin with the bombs twice, but you can also protect yourself from the bombs. I was aiming for this to be worth the 120 greckles and the damage from the two monsters. If you feel otherwise, I could replace the goblin by something stronger or make the bombs damage more.
06-06-2009 at 04:36 PM
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Dex Stewart
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icon Re: RPG Hold Anonymous: 2 (0)  
It should be noted that I will be away until the next weekend. Nuntar, you are welcome to change my rooms if you consider it necessary (and if you want to start the next round before I get back).
06-07-2009 at 09:51 PM
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Someone Else
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I think that my rooms will be fine if that mud mother is changed to a tar mother. If I'm wrong, someone please correct me.
06-12-2009 at 09:23 PM
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The Stew Boy
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I've just realised that in my 3N1E it's possible to doorwalk to skip the green door at the cost of two yellow keys. Perhaps one of the yellow doors should be removed?
06-12-2009 at 11:34 PM
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The Stew Boy
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Someone Else wrote:
I think that my rooms will be fine if that mud mother is changed to a tar mother. If I'm wrong, someone please correct me.
Or add a brain.

Anyway, how's this going?
06-17-2009 at 04:25 AM
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Dex Stewart
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Well, are there any comments regarding the changes I've suggested? If they're no good, I could make a new room instead.
06-17-2009 at 08:04 PM
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Nuntar
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icon Re: RPG Hold Anonymous: 2 (0)  
OK, let's see what you make of this version. Sorry about the delay -- apart from being busy with Iji, it also took me longer than I expected to sort this out and try to strike a balance between too easy and impossible.

Since none of you actually submitted any improved rooms, I've changed the rooms myself, and maybe a bit more extensively than is my role, but, you know, I'm disappointed at the lack of participation in the improvement rounds, and the less help I get with adjusting the levels, the more I will have to do myself.

So, here's what I've changed, taking them in order according to posts made in the topic:

* Store Horror's stats boosted. Not sure if I got the balance right, but at least it does now take away more HP than you get back from the potions.
* Moved brain in 2N2E (as Chaco said, it could be killed without sacrificing any HP, GR or keys)
* Removed health potions in 4N. I understand Dex's point about having them create a decision when to pick them up, but the way this hold is going, tipping the balance still further in favour of "interesting to optimise, mind-numbingly easy to complete" really doesn't strike me as a good idea.
* Replaced coloured doors in 4N with blue door as Dex requested.
* Replaced skeleton key in 4N with portable orb, which is now necessary to open the end stairs. I thought this was a rather elegant solution to the problem of too many blue keys.
* Since the Goblin is now effectively the boss, I added a score checkpoint for killing him.
* Moved doors in 3N1E to prevent doorwalking.
* Added brain in 1N1E to make mud mother stronger, but removed two mad eyes since one attack from a brained mad eye is close to the same as two attacks from unbrained ones.

As well as the above, my room, 1N, is functional, and takes away some of the surplus yellow keys gathered in the first level.

I'd like to end this round and start Level 3, so could everyone state within the next couple of days, please, whether they're in for Level 3 and whether my changes to Level 2 are okay?

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[Last edited by Nuntar at 06-20-2009 11:47 PM]
06-18-2009 at 12:15 AM
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Someone Else
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That was kind of what I was hoping you'd do. Sorry for not submitting a room. I just thought that it was such a minor fix to my room... Yeah, sorry.

EDIT: Is it too obvious I'm Canadian?

[Last edited by Someone Else at 06-18-2009 04:41 AM]
06-18-2009 at 04:41 AM
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The Stew Boy
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Thank you for editing the rooms. I would've sent them in but the changes didn't seem big enough to justify it.

I'm in for level 3.

My stats upon going into level 3 are:
HP 367
ATK 56
DEF 69
GR 627
REP 1147
Keys 2/1/1/0

There's still a few keys/gems/potions lying around in level 2 that I'm going to wait for more ATK/DEF to get. (As well as three 200hp potions back in level 1.)

[Last edited by The Stew Boy at 06-18-2009 07:27 AM]
06-18-2009 at 07:26 AM
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Dex Stewart
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icon Re: RPG Hold Anonymous: 2 (0)  
I'm also in for round 3.

Also, I suggest that you give us some stricter rules regarding the mapping of the level. I don't really know how to explain why, but it seems to me like we could build a much better hold if we knew better how the rooms are connected with each other.
06-19-2009 at 04:57 PM
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