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Blondbeard
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icon Re: RPG Hold Anonymous: 2 (0)  
In disused sewers 3W there used to be a custom sword. Now there stands a character there instead. Is something wrong there?

Edit: Nevermind! It's just the graphics that got lost.

[Last edited by Blondbeard at 03-03-2012 06:36 PM]
03-03-2012 at 12:34 PM
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Blondbeard
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icon Re: RPG Hold Anonymous: 2 (0)  
Okay... So there are a few things really anoying me. 1) Hot-tiles locks, and 2)Sword-slots.

Every time I have to open a yellow door, in order not to step over hottiles for inifinity it anoys me. THis is primeraly an issue in Ruined gatehouse 1W, where opening a green door is the only way to get acsess to an area, which could otherwise be reached by bypassing some hottiles in 2W.

And I run around like a madman hiking the woden sword back and forth. It doesn't make sense with so many accesory-slots, but (almost) no sword or shield slots.


03-04-2012 at 09:00 AM
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hyperme
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icon Re: RPG Hold Anonymous: 2 (+1)  
To do list:

PM Chaco to get sword graphics.
Add some sword and shield slots OR add an inventory system.
Find a way to deal with hot tile abuse.
Make some endings that have good writing.


The problem with hot tiles is the percentage thing, right? Because I'm not sure how to deal with them.

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03-04-2012 at 11:14 AM
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Blondbeard
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icon Re: RPG Hold Anonymous: 2 (0)  
Well... This hold sometimes borders on tedious, since there are a lot of aumtlichs and hot-tiles, but the important thing is that you should be able to beat a monster in order to open up a road, and not have to open a door, since this hold involves a lot of going back and forth.

This is nitpicking, though. Great hold!
03-04-2012 at 03:45 PM
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Chaco
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icon Re: RPG Hold Anonymous: 2 (+2)  
Here's the graphics for the Claymore sword in the Disused Sewers.



Good luck with polishing the hold!

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[Last edited by Chaco at 03-04-2012 06:18 PM]
03-04-2012 at 06:18 PM
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Blondbeard
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Okay... So definitly compleatable. I had a lot of power-ups, and lives left at the end. No sweat, though. Makes room for optimizing :) The aumtlich in 2N2W of the final level was a bit anoying, since it makes the room moot if you've managed to get some lives, and won't lose lives in any other way.

I had two handbombs, one portable orb and one speed potion to spare, and could have collected some 30 000 lives, I think. I don't know if I optimated well, but if I didn't the last level might be too easy.
03-04-2012 at 06:35 PM
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hyperme
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icon Re: RPG Hold Anonymous: 2 (0)  
Having a Derp moment here, courtersy of past hyperme's bad design choices.

Is there a Wall Walking anywhere in the hold? Because I made a room that needs one to be able to do stuff. Since the Warp Token is needed to finish the hold, either to enter the last level or get the Really Big Sword, you can't use it. The room in question is the first place a power tile appears, in the Broken Staircase.

Also, todo list:

PM Chaco to get sword graphics Done!
Add some sword and shield slots OR add an inventory system Done!
Find a way to deal with hot tile abuse.
Make some endings that have good writing.
Fix the Walking Problem.
Report a Bug.

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03-05-2012 at 08:45 PM
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Blondbeard
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icon Re: RPG Hold Anonymous: 2 (0)  
Yep. You gain the wall walk token by dropping a red door in Collapsed Chamber 1N. You can finnish the level quite easily with one of the two hand-bombs avialable. In fact that might be a bit of a problem. You can also use a pick axe or a portable orb or a wall walk in order to sidestep the final boss, and compleating the hold.
03-06-2012 at 11:28 AM
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hyperme
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icon Re: RPG Hold Anonymous: 2 (0)  
Okay, new version. Woo?

Things changed so far:

Sword and Shield slots now accompany the Accesory slots.
All rooms made my hyperme that build goodies for completing a task now tell you what goodies get built and what triggers building.
Claymore graphics added.
A story end level exists, but can't be accessed. It has features to prevent final boss skipping (unless we want that?) and way to prevent getting the unmade good ending without earning it.
The two custom accessories from the Rep Store now boost their respective stats by 10% of the player's base stat.


Again, todo:

PM Chaco to get sword graphics Done!
Add some sword and shield slots OR add an inventory system Done!
Find a way to deal with hot tile abuse.
Make some endings that have good writing.
Fix the Walking Problem Done?
Report a Bug Done!
PM Chaco about stuff and actually PM him this time.
Trade out a portable bomb for something else.
Get art for Attack Emblem and Defence Emblem.

Ahh it keeps growing like Tarstuff.


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03-06-2012 at 07:27 PM
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Chaco
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icon Re: RPG Hold Anonymous: 2 (+3)  
Here's the tiles for the Number NPC, which exists as a handy marker for one of the puzzles I designed for this hold.



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[Last edited by Chaco at 03-07-2012 12:13 AM]
03-07-2012 at 12:13 AM
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Blondbeard
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icon Re: RPG Hold Anonymous: 2 (0)  
Any progress?
05-15-2012 at 04:38 PM
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hyperme
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Blondbeard wrote:
Any progress?

Well first I had coursework so stuff got sidelined.

Then my computer's power supply died. So the hold is currently on my non-accessible PC hard drive. Also, events conspire to prevent a replacement before late June. So yeah.

On actual progress, I actually PM'd Chaco for graphics, and did some vauge framework of a bad ending.

Another person could move towards finishing this, but if you make a copy of the hold, it will chew up all the custom graphics and any speech inside of custom NPCs.

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05-15-2012 at 06:07 PM
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Trickster
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hyperme wrote:
Another person could move towards finishing this, but if you make a copy of the hold, it will chew up all the custom graphics and any speech inside of custom NPCs.
Why copy the hold to a new holdID? Why not alter the existing one?

If a new holdID is required: get me the hold, all sound files, all graphics, and directions on to which features they apply, and I will fix the hold up so someone can continue to edit. I have experience doing this (regrettably). But I don't understand why a new holdID is needed yet.

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05-15-2012 at 08:42 PM
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skell
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icon Re: RPG Hold Anonymous: 2 (0)  
In order to edit a hold exported by anyone else you first have to make a copy of it. This gives the hold, among others, a new, internal holdID.

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05-15-2012 at 08:51 PM
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skell wrote:
In order to edit a hold exported by anyone else you first have to make a copy of it. This gives the hold, among others, a new, internal holdID.
My mistake. I had only assumed this was the case when the hold was not set Anyone Edit, but that makes sense.

In that case, it wouldn't help for me to fix a copy. Whoever is competent to edit will need to be the one to re-insert the sound and images, unless someone wants to request that devteam fix the bug. I wasn't aware it was an issue in RPG, but afaik it still plagues TCB and 4.

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05-15-2012 at 09:07 PM
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hyperme
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I'm back from a new PC... with bad news.

So part of my hard drive went *klunk* in a bad way. Unfortunately, it took my DROD files with it. And due to the bug that eats custom media, we're effectively back to square whatever. I'm not 100% sure of the RPG file's status, so I might be able to recover them. However, I don't know which files to recover.

Sorry about this. It's starting to look like this won't get finished.

Edit of Justice!

I copied over the Data folder from my old hard drive, and everything went well so far. Yay!

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[Last edited by hyperme at 07-14-2012 09:48 PM]
07-14-2012 at 03:21 PM
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Blondbeard
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Yay!
07-15-2012 at 09:17 PM
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Chaco
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Hooray! This was a great project, because I think this hold is way more accessible than RPG Hold Anonymous 1, and more fun to play through too, what with the (usually) larger variety of choices available at any time, and more custom-made content too, like the custom equipment and the DROD-like puzzles.

I really hope this hold can get released eventually.

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[Last edited by Chaco at 07-15-2012 09:37 PM]
07-15-2012 at 09:37 PM
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hyperme wrote:
I copied over the Data folder from my old hard drive, and everything went well so far. Yay!
For the love of Gunthro and all that is holy, make a backup of all the RPG files and post it here.

Pleeeeeease. :P

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07-15-2012 at 10:19 PM
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hyperme
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icon Re: RPG Hold Anonymous: 2 (0)  
So here's a zip file with one copy of the Level Set, and one copy of my player Profile, so that people could edit the Level Set. I'm not sure what to do with it, since I last worked on it months ago. As far as I remember, the to do list is the same as it was in my previous post with a to do list.

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07-22-2012 at 05:53 PM
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hyperme wrote:
So here's a zip file with one copy of the Level Set, and one copy of my player Profile, so that people could edit the Level Set. I'm not sure what to do with it, since I last worked on it months ago. As far as I remember, the to do list is the same as it was in my previous post with a to do list.
I would be happy to take over the project if you're uncertain what to do next, but I won't get a chance to start until late August.

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07-22-2012 at 06:05 PM
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Nuntar
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I'm back :)

I'm very sorry for disappearing like that... I've been going through a difficult stage in my life, I'd rather not go into details. But I definitely want to get this finished off.

So, just now I've been trying to play through from the beginning, this time approaching it methodically, using the techniques I've learned from Blondbeard's video walkthrough. I can do much better now... but I still feel this hold is far too difficult.

My notes, up to the point I've reached:

* Maybe make the first boss easier? It's a bit weird that he does twice the damage of the second boss. Also, he forces you to find nearly all the ATK, making several choices on the first level into non-choices.

* DS 1N1W: As someone already mentioned, the oremite goblin is really annoying when backtracking. I think I'll make him run away when you defeat the Slime King.

* All speech in characters' default scripts has been lost. Fortunately only three characters are affected (Elixir, Hungry Man, Slime King) so I can easily put this back.

* No score checkpoint for killing the Slime King? Bad Nuntar :thumbsdown

* The beginning of CC makes you use up eight green keys, and then the hold teases you with good stuff you could get if you had any green keys. Riiiiight.

* CC 3N2W: This room is where I'm stuck. There's no way (well, other than using the invisibility potion) I can scrounge up the necessary HP and still have the keys needed to get through here. And you have to kill a fegundo (~500 damage) just to enter the room and see what the obstacles are.

So, I'm considering one of two options. I could just changing a couple of important rooms to make them easier. But I know Blondbeard et al like a challenge, so I could have a choice at the very start between playing the hold in "Normal" or "Hard" difficulty, with "Hard" being the hold as it stands now. Any thoughts? And... who else is still around?

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[Last edited by Nuntar at 11-14-2012 04:15 PM]
11-14-2012 at 12:18 PM
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icon Re: RPG Hold Anonymous: 2 (0)  
Up to Level 5 now. (To avoid confusion, I consider "Level 5" to be the second pass through the Disused Sewers, and the Stairwell to be Level 6.) I'm now stuck because I have 188 ATK, and need two more to defeat the Fegundo in 2:2N to get another two more to defeat the Bloodworm; and there's no ATK left that I can get cheaply enough.

Not just to make the hold at a difficulty I can pass, but also because I think it's a better decision that I got wrong the first time, I'm considering moving some Waterskippers and Seep in Levels 3 and 4 so you can get power-ups for only one hit (250-300 damage) where it currently costs three. I also think the hot tiles under the North force arrows in DS 2S4W should be removed, so that the potions in this room, 2S2W and 3S4W have their full value.

So far, these are the changes I'm suggesting making for "Normal" difficulty -- the asterisked ones, I'm unsure as to whether they should apply to "Normal" difficulty or to both, if indeed we go with the idea of having two difficulties.

SC: Lower Guardian's ATK from 150 to 100
FT: Make de-braining the boss cost a green key, not a blue
*DS 1N1W: As said, make oremite goblin flee if Slime King beaten
*DS 2S4W: As said, remove hot tiles under North force arrows
*DS 3S4W (secret room): Reconfigure to give only one stash (4 ATK + 400HP or 4 DEF + 400DEF) but make it not require giving up Invisibility Potion (already cost of green key + defeat of Tar Baby to enter this room)
CC: Change the double green doors at the start to single
*CC 1N2W: As said, move Seep
CC 3N3W: Remove Fegundo blocking tunnel to 3N2W
DS 1S5W: Lower one of Bahamut's stats (perhaps his DEF?)
*DS 2S2W: As said, move Waterskippers and Seep

Next, I'll make a test copy and play through "Normal" difficulty so far, and then see how the remaining levels feel. It would be nice to have a second opinion on these changes, though!

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[Last edited by Nuntar at 11-16-2012 03:47 AM]
11-16-2012 at 03:44 AM
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icon Re: RPG Hold Anonymous: 2 (0)  
Having a Normal and Hard setting seems like a good idea.
11-16-2012 at 11:58 AM
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Nuntar
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icon Re: RPG Hold Anonymous: 2 (+1)  
Okay, consider it done :P (And I'll try to have the hold with difficulty mode settings uploaded later today.)

I've decided I will tone down the difficulty in a few small ways, in addition to adding Normal difficulty. This is for two reasons -- (1) as I said, I now think some of the decisions I made three years ago were clearly wrong; (2) I'd like the difference between the difficulties to concentrate on the bosses, so the player who's completed Normal and wants to try Hard isn't constantly looking over their shoulder in case they missed a small difference.

So, I'm moving the Seep on DS 2S2W on both difficulties -- it was my room, so I can do that ;) I'm adding a large potion to 2N2W, also my room -- 230HP + 2DEF is hardly enough for a yellow and a green key. The oremite goblin will flee on both difficulties, the hot tiles will be gone, and the secret room won't ask for the invisibility potion.

For now, I won't make the Seep in CC 1N2W hit you only once when taking the power-ups. It's not my room, and the player is likely to leave it until they can kill the Seep taking only one hit anyway. But I will move the Seep one square east, as at the moment it's really annoying when ctrl-moving through the room.

So, to recap, on the first four levels, the differences between the difficulties will be:

1 -- Boss has less ATK
2 -- Boss requires only a green key to de-brain
3 -- None, but entering L4 costs half as many green keys
4 -- Removed Fegundo in 3N3W; Bahamut has less HP

Now, Level 5... this level's main problem is that traversing it requires giving up keys and HP, but it's hard to get any HP back. There's a good stash of HP in 2N1W, but it costs a lot of keys. So I'm removing (yes, on both difficulties) the three compulsory yellow doors in 1S3W. (It's not my room, but looking back, I did mention that the player might have a large number of keys, and asked if the edge rooms could use some of them up....)

I'm also tempted to replace the compulsory Waterskippers, and maybe some of the optional ones, with Little Waterskippers. And I'm going to modify my room 5W -- a choice between one green door and killing six Fegundos isn't much of a choice.

I'm also very tempted to reconfigure DS 2N3W, even though it's not my room. Firstly, I don't like doubling ItemMult for one room without telling the player -- it hides information, and there's plenty of space to double the number of gems instead. Secondly, there's no arrow rotator in the room, so as far as I can see, the gems at the bottom are inaccessible. And in any case, four green doors is way too much for two of each gem.

Only problem is, so far I've not seen a good opportunity to make there be a difference between the difficulties on Level 5 :( Of course, there doesn't have to be one on every level... the differences on earlier levels will make later levels easier anyway....

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[Last edited by Nuntar at 11-16-2012 09:19 PM]
11-16-2012 at 06:11 PM
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Okay, this is quite drastic but I feel it's the right decision. On Level 5, I've replaced all Waterskippers in non-edge rooms with Little Waterskippers -- except in 3E, since that's the only one that does give you HP after killing it, and avoiding it costs a green key. (Since this makes one blue key much easier to reach, I added an extra Waterskipper to 2N2E.)

In addition, I changed 5W -- the large stash now costs just one green key or killing three Fegundos, but no longer contains a green key. I switched two rewards that were the wrong way round, and made the Fegundos in the NW corner guard two yellow keys as well as ATK. I've also changed 2N3W, so the gems are accessible and cost fewer keys, and also provide the option of reaching the centre by sacrificing keys instead of fighting all the way round the perimeter. Conversely, I removed the force arrow at the start, so you can reach the gems by fighting; to compensate for this, I halved the stash in the SW corner.

These changes make Level 5 substantially easier, on both difficulties. To balance this, on Hard difficulty only, reaching the Bloodworm now does require a blue key. (Two are available -- in 2N3W and 2N3E.)

There's also a couple of changes that make rooms harder. In DS 2S4W, I moved the tar baby so that you have to fight it to enter the secret room (as was surely intended?) Similarly, in 1N4W, the tar babies seemed to have no purpose. I changed it so you have to kill all eight enemies for the blue key.

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[Last edited by Nuntar at 11-17-2012 01:02 PM]
11-16-2012 at 09:08 PM
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icon Re: RPG Hold Anonymous: 2 (0)  
Okay. In the attached version of the hold:

* Score checkpoints temporarily multiplying HP, ATK and DEF by 3/2 on Hard difficulty should now work correctly for all eight bosses.

* Added a single oremite square to CC 3N3W, so you can stand on it to get estimated damage against the Fegundo without having to go round the 3N2W loop.

* Added a tunnel and orb to RG 1W to deal with the hot tile problem Blondbeard highlighted earlier.

* Replaced skeleton key in DS 1N3W with green key, so the extra blue door in Hard difficulty really does increase the difficulty
;)

Next, I'm going to replay from the beginning on Normal, and see what Level 6 feels like when I get that far. (I'm confident I can -- my only mistake last time was failing to get the Steel Shield at the right time.) I'd be especially interested to hear if anyone is playtesting this on Hard, and how it compares to the 2009 version.

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11-17-2012 at 01:10 PM
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I'm playing it on hard right now, but I never did manage to get through it before.
11-17-2012 at 02:23 PM
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Nuntar
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Well, I tried to get as far as I could without using any of the one-time accessories, and I can nearly complete Level 5. Maybe I was a bit optimistic in pushing for the all-important 220 ATK threshold... I've reached it, but I have 2 HP, and all I need is 150 HP to kill the NW Soulless in CC 2S2W and reach the brain, then I can get the rest of the HP in this room cheaply and I'd be all set. (However, I wasted a yellow key in SC 3N through not observing the tunnels carefully enough, so I know I can get past this point.)

So, it just goes to show that even the new Normal difficulty is still not easy, and seems to be just about the perfect mixture of fun and frustrating. (Should we add an Easy difficulty as well?)

Rather than start again, I'll use my Elixir here (1531 HP!) and see what Level 6 has in store....

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[Last edited by Nuntar at 11-18-2012 03:28 PM]
11-18-2012 at 12:48 AM
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icon Re: RPG Hold Anonymous: 2 (0)  
Okay, I've made some changes to Level 6.

* 1E and 1S1E: Added orbs to deal with Blondbeard's hot-tile problem.
* 1S: Moved black gate so it doesn't block the bridge, only the brain. On Normal difficulty, the three pirates on the bridge are reduced to one.
* 1S1W: The second Aumtlich and Waterskipper seem to be purposeless. Perhaps the room's author expected there would be a Grappling Hook elsewhere in the hold? I've placed a green door providing another way to get across the pit and kill the Aumtlich.
* 2S: Removed force arrows. Because it was unfair that if you didn't take out the trapdoor before crossing the room (1000 damage!) you would be stuck in the southern half of the level.
* On Normal difficulty, reaching the altar costs a green key, not a blue.

And further changes to Level 5:

* Fixed the problem I introduced in 2S4W, that the Store Horror could be bypassed.
* Rotated Aumtlich in 2N3W and 2N5E -- these ones are just monsters to be fought, you shouldn't have to take damage from the beams.
* Restored force arrows to 1N2W, which I shouldn't have removed. Again, you just have to fight the Aumtlich and not take beam damage. With the force arrows there, you once more have to fight the other two Aumtlich to return, but I don't see an easy solution to this -- with Level 5 having been made a lot easier, I don't think it matters much.

I'll also add that I have major reservations about BS 1S1W. As far as I can see, you can only get the good stuff with Wall Walking -- but there is only one WW in the hold, so you can never get both stashes. Also, giving a blue key and a skeleton key tilts things too much towards "using the WW here and only here is going to be necessary". Any thoughts on this room?

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50th Skywatcher

[Last edited by Nuntar at 11-18-2012 04:45 PM]
11-18-2012 at 04:05 PM
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