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Nuntar
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icon RPG Hold Anonymous: 2 (+1)  
This is a second round of this game. I'll repeat eb0ny's first three rules, as those will be the same in this round:

"1) Some people sign up for this game. I will start it only if there are at least five participants.
2) I make a barebones DROD:RPG hold, and each participant is given two rooms to work on.
3) The participants have to submit their rooms within a week. I will then compile them and post the result. Then another week is given to introduce whatever changes into those rooms, now that the entire layout will be seen.

The objective of this game is to see if we can build a DROD:RPG hold without knowing about each other's ideas. Of course, I cannot control how you communicate, but it would be better if you stick to the rules. There are some rules to the rooms, I will post them if the game will commence.

To put things short, you have to make two rooms for a DROD:RPG hold that you will get to see twice before it is finished."

Once we get going, some of the more detailed rules will be different from last time. This is partly because I've gone through the experience of the last game and that's given me some ideas for changes to make, but I still don't claim my way of doing things is necessarily better than eb0ny's. It's also partly just because I'm a different person and have my own ideas about the way I prefer to do things. I'll go into the detailed rules when (if) we have enough people, but one teaser I'll share with you now is that this time there will be rules allowing the creation of secret rooms as we go along.

So, who's up for it?

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[Last edited by Nuntar at 03-20-2010 01:56 AM]
04-14-2009 at 11:41 PM
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12th Archivist
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icon Re: RPG Hold Anonymous: 2 (0)  
I'll join again. Last game was fun and this game should also be enjoyable.

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04-14-2009 at 11:43 PM
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The Stew Boy
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I'll sign up.
04-15-2009 at 12:19 AM
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Chaco
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I'll join in.

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04-15-2009 at 02:22 PM
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hyperme
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I'll play

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04-15-2009 at 02:57 PM
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I'll pass, sorry.

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04-16-2009 at 04:08 PM
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Someone Else
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Sorry, I didn't see this. I'd love to play.
04-16-2009 at 07:26 PM
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icon Re: RPG Hold Anonymous: 2 (0)  
<-- Level 1

One thing I'm doing differently in this game is releasing a single copy of the dungeon rather than personalised copies. I trust you all to follow the first, overriding rule, which is: only edit the rooms assigned to you.

Room assignations:

12th Archivist - 4N2E, 2N2E
The Stew Boy - 6N2W, 2N2W
mxvladi - 6N4E, 4N4W
Chaco - 6N4W, 6N2E
hyperme - 4N2W, 2N
Someone Else - 4N, 4N4E
Nuntar - Entrance, 6N

Other rules for Level 1:

* Multiplier for this level is x1.
* Style for this level is City. Do not change the style or the weather settings.
* To complete the level, the player must open a blue door and fight a boss. I will decide on the boss's stats after everyone has created their rooms.
* You may not edit anything on the edge squares of your rooms.
* Other than the things prohibited in the above rules, anything (except copyright violation) is acceptable. Any use of scripting, custom monsters, custom equipment, custom media etc is fine.

More detailed stuff:

* Player starts as a Stalwart with a Foil and ZERO base ATK. The Foil is a custom sword with the following properties: metal, +10 ATK. Therefore player's effective starting stats are 500-10-10. Recommended starting monsters are Brain, Roach, Roach Queen, Wraithwing. However, depending on what people place in their rooms, other weapons may be available, and certainly I expect gems to be available, so by the time the player reaches the later rooms, expect some harder monsters to have become beatable.

* There are TWELVE rooms in this level, not counting the corridor rooms and the boss fight. When deciding how many gems to place in your rooms, especially attack gems, please remember that other people's rooms may contain gems as well as yours, and try not to go overboard.

* You may change the music in your rooms. If you change the music, you may decide whether to confine the change to your room or make it persist through the level. To confine the change to your room, place an NPC in every adjacent room (the CORRIDOR rooms, not the next gameplay room) with this script:

Imperative Restart script on entrance
Set music Default

* Each player may, if desired, create ONE secret room. To create a secret room, PM me your desired room coordinates. For Level 1 only, because of the layout of the level, a special rule will apply: your secret room must be adjacent to a gameplay room (not including the Entrance); in other words it must have one odd and one even coordinate. Your secret room can be, but does not have to be, adjacent to a room you are creating. If no-one has already claimed your desired coordinates, I will reply giving you permission to build the secret room. To make the secret room accessible, make a gap in the edge wall on the side touching another room. (If anyone claims 5N, connect it to 4N, not 6N.) If the secret room and its adjacent room are created by different people, before releasing the level I may slightly adjust one or both rooms so the connection is sensibly placed.

To submit your rooms, either upload them to a site such as mediafire, geocities etc and PM me a download link, or send me an e-mail with the hold as an attachment (zarathustra47 at yahoo dot com). DO NOT POST YOUR ROOMS IN THIS TOPIC!

Deadline: 23 April, 6am GMT

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04-17-2009 at 12:44 AM
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Chaco
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Nuntar wrote:
* To complete the level, the player must open a blue door and fight a boss. I will decide on the boss's stats after everyone has created their rooms.

Will this blue door and/or boss be located in 6N, 7N, 8N, or some other location?

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04-17-2009 at 02:32 AM
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12th Archivist
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I used non-custom equipment in the hold as a reward for doing something that is too hard for you to accomplish on this level (meaning you're probably not going to get the object anytime soon). Is this okay?

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04-17-2009 at 05:43 AM
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Nuntar
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The deadline is over and I'm afraid not enough people have submitted rooms to make it worthwhile continuing with the game.

[EDIT: all resolved now, thankfully :) ]

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[Last edited by Nuntar at 04-26-2009 01:59 AM]
04-23-2009 at 11:40 AM
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hyperme
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Couldn't you, well extend the deadline a few days and PM the lazy so-and-so's who haven't submitted their entries? Some people could of been waiting for a PM with their level attached, like in the first game. You didn't mention in the first post that the level would be in the thread, not in a PM.

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04-23-2009 at 05:11 PM
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12th Archivist
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Yo lazy head! Wake up!

I made the entry, but never PMed to Nuntar. I've now PMed the thing to the host, so maybe we could get a few more slackers in.

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04-24-2009 at 04:32 AM
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Jeff_Ray...
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I'd be willing to take over a few rooms here. Maybe two or three.

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04-24-2009 at 11:22 PM
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12th Archivist
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icon Re: RPG Hold Anonymous: 2 (0)  
Unless I really misread Nuntar's PM, (I've been known to do that on occasion), I will post my attachment here. Everybody else has already submitted their submissions, so I guess I'm last to go.

There you go.

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04-26-2009 at 01:53 AM
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Nuntar
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No, you didn't misunderstand :)

I now have everyone's submissions, but it's 2am now so I'm going to sleep and then put them all together tomorrow.

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04-26-2009 at 01:56 AM
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Nuntar
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icon Re: RPG Hold Anonymous: 2 (0)  
Level 1: Round 2

OK, this is where it really gets interesting. We have a situation that never happened in the first Hold Anonymous: an impossible level. Your challenge is to make it possible -- without making it too easy -- working as a team.

Because this will be your last chance to make changes to this level before we move on, and achieving the above objective successfully is vital, this round you are allowed to consult if you desire.

Hyperme, because you designed 2N, the first puzzle room, you have a special status in this round. You are allowed to make changes to the script in room Entrance that controls the player's initial stats. As with any other changes, you may consult your team-mates but are not obliged to. Others may contact you to make suggestions for changes.

I've decided that there will not, after all, be a boss on this level/ Because Chaco's room contains the only blue key, and a difficult monster must be fought to reach it, the wraithwing in 6N4W counts as the boss. So the goal is now simply to enter room 7N. I've removed room 8N and the exit stairs, because I've decided that the second level will be on the same "floor" as this one, so you will simply walk to the north end of 7N to enter it.

Deadline: 3 May, 12 noon GMT

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04-26-2009 at 05:11 PM
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Nuntar
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Also, when you submit your altered rooms (or post in the topic to say so if you do not wish to alter your rooms), please state whether you would like to take part in building the second level.

Anyone who did not take part in building the first level is also welcome to join in for the second.

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04-26-2009 at 06:23 PM
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Chaco
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Looking over the rooms, I've noted that in a lot of cases (particularly the rooms 4N2W and 4N4E) the architects seemed to expect much greater ability of progression than was actually given. I'd like to call attention to the fact that both of my rooms (6N4W and 6N2E) can be passed through in any direction without messing with anything.

Some comments:

*In 4N2W, what's the big idea with the character that builds an open tar gate at (4,11) when all trapdoors are dropped? Why not just make that square a trapdoor gate and thus indicate its function?

*mxvladi's zombies, while a good idea, are really powerful. Consider the fact that they have 50 HP and 5 DEF. This means that in order to kill them in five hits, the player needs 15 ATK, or 5 ATK gems picked up on the level. This is a lot of ATK, considering how stingy the rest of you seemed to be with the gems. Zombies always get at least one more hit on the player than the player gets on it, so without any DEF upgrades, zombies do 22 damage per hit. Again, since DEF upgrades are few and far between, this amount isn't going down very much. What we end up with is something that is going to take a lot of HP for the player to kill (~100-150 when prepared, ~200 when not), and this is just for one zombie - which can revive itself in two turns once killed. (Plus zombies are blocking all of the entrances to mxvladi's rooms, so they can't even be crossed without fighting two, and they'll reappear later. Urgh!)

What we could do is either reduce the zombie's HP (possibly to 40) or not give it the first attack on the player. It's a good idea to have tough monsters that the player has to think about preparing for before attacking, but I don't like how this idea is combined with regeneration in bits where the player really doesn't need it, in addition to difficulty.

*It also seems like a lot of you implemented incremental challenges that depend on the player having already gathered a lot of statistics (4N2W, 2N2E, 4N2E, 4N4E) wherein a reward is sealed off if the player doesn't work hard enough to get at it. One or two of those per level is fine, but I think we have too many here.

*We should keep in mind that the skeleton key in 4N4E could potentially be used on the blue door, and that it's not too hard to get to if the player enters by the lower west entrance. Nuntar, are you OK with people skipping the level boss in this manner? Skeleton keys are good for opening greckle doors that require billions of greckles to open.

===

Anyhow, since my room 6N4W contains the only blue key on the level, Nuntar is going to be working on that room to replace the wraithwing with a scripted character boss that should be approximately as hard to defeat as the original wraithwing. Nuntar may be changing the reward structure of that room, since getting the blue key is now compulsory in that room and thus renders my reward structure irrelevant.

Overall, I was expecting all of you to be far more generous to the player than you ended up being. It looks as though this was an assumption everyone made at the same time. I'll try and help out with fixing this level's impossibility, (has everyone spotted that it doesn't seem particularly possible to bring more than 1,500 health to 6N4W to fight the wraithwing boss?), as well as making the level easier. I mean, come on, this is level 1. People shouldn't be having problems with it; it's supposed to be a nice easy warmup.

Anyhow, that's the end of my rant. Hopefully this project should turn out OK. :)

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[Last edited by Chaco at 04-26-2009 08:32 PM]
04-26-2009 at 08:26 PM
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Nuntar
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mxvladi wrote:
EDIT: I've tried to play the hold, and for some reason I start without any ATK (and sword does no effect) :huh
I did say in the instructions:

Player starts as a Stalwart with a Foil and ZERO base ATK. The Foil is a custom sword with the following properties: metal, +10 ATK.

I still can't work out where your figure of 12 damage comes from, though. Even if the player has 10 base ATK and a +10 sword for effective ATK 20, he needs four hits to take out a Zombie, resulting in 4 x 22 = 88 damage.

Anyway, we're on round two now, so you have the chance to fix your mistakes (as well as making any other desired changes).

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04-27-2009 at 12:53 PM
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Nuntar
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Chaco wrote:
*We should keep in mind that the skeleton key in 4N4E could potentially be used on the blue door, and that it's not too hard to get to if the player enters by the lower west entrance.
Oops, I hadn't noticed the tunnel at the bottom of the room. You're right.

Someone Else (and anyone else), please don't leave skeleton keys lying about in this manner. I'm fine with them being present on the level as a reward for optimisation or completing a puzzle, but if the player can simply walk in and pick them up, this just spoils the level and negates everyone else's hard work.

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[Last edited by Nuntar at 04-27-2009 01:09 PM]
04-27-2009 at 01:05 PM
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Nuntar
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mxvladi wrote:
Should I simply attach fix of my part of the hold here?
No need; I've made that change on my copy and it will be fixed when I upload the completed Level 1. We have to wait to see if other players wish to make changes.

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04-27-2009 at 02:22 PM
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Someone Else
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Oops. That's not what I meant to do. Those should be black doors. :blush
Actually, It's too easy anyway. I'll think of some way to fix it.

[Last edited by Someone Else at 04-27-2009 05:23 PM]
04-27-2009 at 04:57 PM
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I'm away for about 6 days, and I don't have time to work a fix. Maybe increase the hot tile damage? I don't know how it would work. But I'm giving anybody permission to fix my room.
04-28-2009 at 04:28 AM
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Nuntar
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I'll fix it in the simplest way possible, namely by moving the lowest tunnel two squares left, so it still does something but not what it originally did.

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04-28-2009 at 12:29 PM
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Nuntar
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This is now the second time in a row that half the people "participating" have failed to submit by the deadline. Out of respect to the ones who have submitted in time, I am giving you all one last extension -- 72 hours from the timestamp of this post -- but if I do not have your contributions by then, I am giving up with this.

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05-03-2009 at 12:30 PM
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Er, I was, too tired when checking Forum games to remember the impossible-ness. I don't think the stats need changing. Of course, in 4N2W, the trapdoors could have potions put on them.

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05-03-2009 at 09:22 PM
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Nuntar
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Okay. I don't know what's gone on here. I don't know why eb0ny's game -- although it had its difficulties -- worked out in the end and mine has got stuck in the mire after one level. But I've reached the point where there's nothing more I can do.

I don't want this game to die, so if any one of the six of you can post here a possible-but-not-too-easy version of the level, after consultation with the others so no-one is changing anyone else's rooms, then we can carry on.

I want to get one thing straight, because some of you may have got the wrong idea after eb0ny's game. There were always meant to be two phases per level. One for constructing the level, one for fixing it after seeing each other's rooms. It just so happened that in eb0ny's game, four times out of five the level just happened to work out so well that the second phase was minimal, a matter of fixing tiny mistakes. The odd one out was Level 2, which turned out to be far too easy. Eb0ny chose to deal with that by adding a "Gauntlet" level so that players would have to optimise Level 2 and not just complete it. This time, we've ended up with a level that's far too hard instead of far too easy, so I can't take that way out. That's why I have to remind you of the rules of the game and what you originally signed up and said you would do.

EDIT: removed some words I regret posting. I have added an apology to my post further down the page.

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[Last edited by Nuntar at 05-11-2009 11:58 PM]
05-10-2009 at 01:58 AM
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Chaco
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A thought occurs to me...

Seeing as the current layout and combination of rooms doesn't seem to be working very well, and the level is too hard, and can't really be fixed to work properly without a redesign, etc. etc. etc...

Why don't we just scrap the level that we have currently, but use the same level template (or a different one) and try again, with each person submitting new rooms? Essentially, retry and see if we can get a better level?

Rather than trying to fix something that seems broken, making something new but more appropriate for a first-level difficulty may be the way to go. Personally, I think the simple rule of making all rooms crossable in any direction without changing any statistics would make the new level inherently easier.

Anybody else think this is a good idea? We can either keep the same architects and/or templates that worked on the original first level or have Nuntar reassign people or templates.

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05-10-2009 at 03:12 PM
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Nuntar wrote:
Okay. I don't know what's gone on here. I don't know why eb0ny's game -- although it had its difficulties -- worked out in the end and mine has got stuck in the mire after one level.

I blame you NOT PMing THE PLAYERS AT THE START!! People may of thought "oh the second round hasn't started yet" and think the red folderness is due to play testing comments. The host does has to nudge the players a bit.

And Chaco has a good idea. If PMs are send if it is followed!

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05-10-2009 at 03:39 PM
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