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Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Architecture : Gigantic Jewel lost (a sequel to Doctor E. Will's Mega Complex)
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Zch
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File: Gigantic Jewel Lost.hold (667.5 KB)
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icon Gigantic Jewel lost (+2)  
Edit: Even more fixes.

Finally, after two years(!) of mad puzzle designing this hold
is ready to be published.

NOTE: This hold uses two custom room styles, that are quite essential part of our vision. I'll upload them on this thread.
Please download them also.

Give it a shot. Enjoy :)

- Zch and Kallor

[Last edited by Zch at 06-11-2009 12:41 AM]
04-03-2009 at 11:20 PM
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Zch
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File: InFlamesRock.dmf (2.4 MB)
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (+1)  
Here is the first of the two room styles I mentioned.

InFlamesRock is red, grim and hot place.
04-03-2009 at 11:22 PM
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Zch
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File: BlueBricks.dmf (2.3 MB)
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (+1)  
And the second custom room style.

BlueBricks is a cool blue and laid back place. :cool:
04-03-2009 at 11:25 PM
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Chaco
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (0)  
Hey, a sequel to Dr. E Will's Mega Complex! And room styles! Awesome!

I'll begin playing this now.

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04-04-2009 at 01:52 AM
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Dischorran
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (+1)  
Given that I liked the prior hold so much, I'll try to (slowly) work through this one.

At the moment, I'm partway through the Goblin Forest, and I like what I see so far. Aesthetics are of course very nice, and I see nothing to fix on that count; puzzles range widely in difficulty, but work thematically. The hold is riddled with typos; I'll try to point them out as I see them, but at some point before submission you might consider exporting the text en masse so that someone can go over the entire thing to catch errors.

Specific rooms so far:

Click here to view the secret text


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04-04-2009 at 08:42 AM
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Zch
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icon First updates (+1)  
Thanks for the feedback :)

There was a nasty bug in script somewhere much later on the hold: a special character that used to be wubba was at some point changed to roach which made him vulnerable, but killing him would cause major problems. He should be Invulnerable now.

I made a quick update to the hold that fixes the bug, adds some checkpoints to one room, removes one pointless scroll that was accidentally left, and fixes the typos found so far.

Please download the updated version, or at least don't kill the thing in the center of the second level that uses InFlamesRock -room style.

About publishing the text: I really don't want to do, at least for now, it because reading the text would spoil so much of this hold for anyone who would read it :( And I think we need to go through the text few times more before we could ask anyone to proofread the whole thing for us.


[Last edited by Zch at 04-04-2009 12:38 PM]
04-04-2009 at 12:33 PM
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Ezlo
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (0)  
Oh.

My.

Gob.

I have been hoping for more holds out of you two ever since Doctor E Will's came out, and now my dream is actually coming true?? This is AWESOME! :D
04-04-2009 at 02:01 PM
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Rheb
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (0)  
:w00t

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04-04-2009 at 02:10 PM
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Chaco
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (+1)  
I'd like to ask the creators (or whoever's solved the room) for help on Goblin Woods: Once North Once East.

The first two gel blobs are easy enough to clear with proper mimic management. However, I'm convinced it's impossible to clear all the babies from the southeastern blob in one turn, which is obviously not a good conclusion. Here's my reasoning (secreted for length and also information):
Click here to view the secret text


EDIT:

I'd also like to ask that in Goblin Woods: Twice North Twice East, the creators add a checkpoint near each of the two orbs, for convenience's sake (especially when trying to get the first mimic potion successfully).

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[Last edited by Chaco at 04-04-2009 06:49 PM]
04-04-2009 at 06:37 PM
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Zch
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (+1)  
About 1N1E:
This is very evil room, but it is possible.

Kallor made this room and knows better how exactly to solve it, but since he is not online at the moment I'll try to help.

Click here to view the secret text


[Last edited by Zch at 04-04-2009 07:54 PM]
04-04-2009 at 07:03 PM
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Chaco
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File: GJL Goblin Woods 4N1E Victory.demo (1.7 KB)
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (+1)  
Yeah, I get what you said in the secret tags - that's kind of the point of the room in the first place. But doing that isn't possible if the contiguous groups aren't an even length, since to block and kill, the two "killing spaces" need to be next to each other. Kallor probably knows the trick around that, so I'll wait for him to respond.

In the meantime:

C h a l l e n g e !
 Gigantic Jewel Lost: Goblin Woods: Quarce North, Once East 


I only need six decoys to solve this room - not sure what's up with having sixteen there. A demo is attached of me solving the room this way.

____________________________
Quick links to my stuff (in case you forgot where it was):
Click here to view the secret text


[Last edited by Chaco at 04-04-2009 07:46 PM]
04-04-2009 at 07:45 PM
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Zch
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (+1)  
quote:
Chaco wrote:
Yeah, I get what you said in the secret tags - that's kind of the point of the room in the first place. But doing that isn't possible if the contiguous groups aren't an even length, since to block and kill, the two "killing spaces" need to be next to each other. Kallor probably knows the trick around that, so I'll wait for him to respond.



Hmm... I think I can help you too (found some notes)

Click here to view the secret text


quote:

I only need six decoys to solve this room - not sure what's up with having sixteen there. A demo is attached of me solving the room this way.



Congratulations, You found the first unintended solution :)
Click here to view the secret text

04-04-2009 at 08:19 PM
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Chaco
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (+1)  
Huh. Yeah, that solution is evil. Thanks. :)

You should probably add more checkpoints to that room too - I know mimic manipulation (particularly with movement order involved) can be a little hit and miss, so the two checkpoints in the room seem a bit sparsely placed.

I know this room is particularly thematic (given that there's a Stalwart and goblins in the room) but perhaps you could replace this "evil" blob with one that's a bit more in line with the other two in the room, and move this variation to a later level.

quote:
Zch wrote:
quote:

I only need six decoys to solve this room - not sure what's up with having sixteen there. A demo is attached of me solving the room this way.



Congratulations, You found the first unintended solution :)
Click here to view the secret text



You could probably get rid of my unintended solution by lining the relevant parts of the southeastern bushes with force arrows, thus trapping the snake if it gets near them. (The Western, Northern and Eastern walls are all much too far away for the sixteen decoy potions to accomplish anything similar to what I did.)

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[Last edited by Chaco at 04-04-2009 10:56 PM]
04-04-2009 at 10:21 PM
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Kallor
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (+1)  
Yes, I guess it's a bit unfair to present a room like 1N1E right at the beginnig. It's very hard, please try to draw a picture or just settle with the easy solution (the hard solution hides only secret rooms, you can restore and try again when you feel like facing a real challenge :) ).

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04-05-2009 at 01:57 AM
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Chaco
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (+2)  
In Long Path: Octence South you guys should really put a scroll or a force arrow or something on the pressure plate at (15,9) - otherwise I can just put a decoy on it, then kill the roach with another decoy and be on my way.

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04-05-2009 at 02:30 AM
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Dischorran
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (+1)  
More comments; I'm still grinding through the Goblin Forest.

Click here to view the secret text


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04-05-2009 at 04:10 AM
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Dischorran
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (+2)  
And more - it's been a productive night, for a somewhat skewed definition of productive.
Click here to view the secret text



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04-05-2009 at 10:46 AM
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Chaco
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (0)  
Actually, the secret you pointed out from the Long Path level seems to be the Mastery level, seeing as the other staircases are blocked off and the only other place to go is to the Master Walls (a route which is tough to see, given the lighting).

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04-05-2009 at 02:15 PM
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Rheb
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (+2)  
I really like the Long Path, the layout is neat, and the puzzles are simple, but with increasing difficulty. Iím currently struggling with 7S. In 3S I didnít use the decoy. Instead I let the queen spawn two roaches just above the arrows, then I killed the queen and let one roach step on and off the pressure plate, walking on top of the other roaches. Itís not too easy to find this solution, and I still enjoyed the puzzle, so I donít think a change is necessary.

In Goblin Woods Iíve found some of the best puzzles Iíve seen in a long while and some easy filler rooms, which I donít really mind, (they make the level look neat). But there are also a few pretty tedious filler rooms which I would like to see, either a bit easier, or removed.

Click here to view the secret text


Edit: Oh, and I've loved what story I've seen so far. Those poor Dupont Stalwarts made me laugh more than once!

____________________________
Voligner is my very own DROD-like game. Please check it out!

[Last edited by Rheb at 04-05-2009 02:28 PM]
04-05-2009 at 02:21 PM
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Rheb
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File: GJL Goblin Woods 4N1E Victory.demo (1.7 KB)
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (+2)  
And another set of comments for Goblin Woods.

Click here to view the secret text


Edit:

And here's yet a third set of Goblin woods comments. I was planing to wait until I had cleared it all, but that might take some time, and I found a US I wanted to notify you of.

Click here to view the secret text


Edit 2: This might already have been said, but the stalwart in 4N2W reappears inside the gel after you've cleared the room.

____________________________
Voligner is my very own DROD-like game. Please check it out!

[Last edited by Rheb at 04-05-2009 05:24 PM]
04-05-2009 at 03:47 PM
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Dischorran
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (+2)  
Comments to close out the Goblin Forest:
Click here to view the secret text



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04-06-2009 at 05:43 AM
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Dischorran
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (+2)  
Partway through the Underground Lake now. I like the graphics style, but trapdoors and bridges could stand to look a little less alike. The linearity could prove a bit of a problem, given that some rooms (2S2W in particular) are massively harder than others.

Comments so far:
Click here to view the secret text


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[Last edited by Dischorran at 04-06-2009 09:23 AM]
04-06-2009 at 09:20 AM
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Zch
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (+1)  
Wow, you guys are running through our hold with the speed of the lightning. Thanks for all the feedback, we really appreciate it.

We fixed the bugs and unintended solutions you had found details below.

Click here to view the secret text


Other stuff:

Click here to view the secret text

04-06-2009 at 06:40 PM
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Rheb
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (+1)  
Ok, I'm done with the goblin woods. Feels great, in parts it was truly an amazing level. Here's my comments for the last four rooms I had left, these were the rooms I had until now avoided because they didn't seem fun.

Click here to view the secret text


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04-06-2009 at 08:05 PM
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Kallor
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (+1)  
Thanks for all the testing so far. There are some things I don't understand, I would be grateful if you explained a little, or even better, sent a victory demo:

Click here to view the secret text


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04-06-2009 at 10:13 PM
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Chaco
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (0)  
Yeah, I realize now that in Goblin Woods: Once North Once East, if you're willing to not get the secret on the first pass then you only have to smite the two easier blobs, since breaking the blob in the enclosure and then breaking the last "evil" blob causes the doors to switch and the gel babies won't have to be killed in one go, so I'm fine with that now.

However, you should still add a scroll, yellow door, or similar to (9, 21) or else one can clear the room, then later come back and clear all the gel blobs as normal (without bothering to kill gel babies in one turn) then put one mimic at (9, 21), enter the enclosure, stab the blob, and get to the secret anyway without solving the room in the difficult manner.

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Quick links to my stuff (in case you forgot where it was):
Click here to view the secret text


[Last edited by Chaco at 04-06-2009 10:32 PM]
04-06-2009 at 10:31 PM
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Dischorran
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (+1)  
quote:
Kallor wrote:
4N1W: How did you (Dischorran) exactly kill the gel mother? That is, why can't my script recognise your winning method?

5N2E: What did you (Dischorran, Rheb) do in this room? Our solution doesn't involve trapping the adder, just killing it very fast (striking the orb at turn 9, like the briar reads as a little hint).
I've batch exported my demos (from the update prior to this one). That's probably the easiest way to answer. I was wondering what the 9 was there for. My solution also involves killing the adder very fast. ;)

quote:
2S2W: Why do you (Dischorran) have the stalwart hitting the gel blobs? Having him just help you kill the babies after you hit the gel yourself is easier. We thought that 2S would be the hard one.
I have the stalwart hitting the *tar* blobs, because I'm an idiot and didn't exhaust the options for double-teaming the gel babies. :)

While I'm here, the next two Underground Lake comments, which include a rather blatant US:
Click here to view the secret text


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[Last edited by Dischorran at 07-10-2009 01:20 AM : No more demo file.]
04-06-2009 at 11:02 PM
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Zch
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (+1)  
quote:
Chaco wrote:
However, you should still add a scroll, yellow door, or similar to (9, 21) or else one can clear the room, then later come back and clear all the gel blobs as normal (without bothering to kill gel babies in one turn) then put one mimic at (9, 21), enter the enclosure, stab the blob, and get to the secret anyway without solving the room in the difficult manner.


Yes, good point. Thanks :) Added a new version with this bug fixed and some other minor fixes.
04-06-2009 at 11:03 PM
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Zch
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (+1)  
quote:
Dischorran wrote:
I've batch exported my demos (from the update prior to this one). That's probably the easiest way to answer. I was wondering what the 9 was there for. My solution also involves killing the adder very fast. ;)



Wow, your solution is awesome :)

quote:

While I'm here, the next two Underground Lake comments, which include a rather blatant US:
Click here to view the secret text



Click here to view the secret text

04-07-2009 at 12:04 AM
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Dischorran
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icon Re: Gigantic Jewel lost (+2)  
The Underground Lake is mostly done, with a couple rooms left to go.
Click here to view the secret text

EDIT: Here's Goblin Forest 3N done properly.

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[Last edited by Dischorran at 07-10-2009 01:20 AM : The forum must have as much pain solving 3N as I did - demo removed.]
04-07-2009 at 05:38 AM
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