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stigant
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Ok, so we just started a new mafia game, but I was thinking that part of the problem with playing mafia on a forum is that its a bit too easy to lie. When you play face-to-face, the mafia has to conceal its intentions in real time (ie hide smirks and other twitches when they defend themselves, not make much movement during the night as they decide who to kill etc). This adds a bit of an "evidence trail", and from watching CSI, I know that while testimony may be false or misleading, the evidence never lies. On the forum, there's a whole lot of testimony, but no (or at least, not much) evidence.

So, I was thinking about lies and that lead me to think about those puzzles where you know that everybody is either a liar or a truth-teller. One of my favorite books growing up was Raymond Smullyan's The Lady or the Tiger which featured a whole bunch of these riddles. In addition to the liar/truthteller attribute, he also introduced the sane/insane attribute. So, a liar always lies about his beliefs, and a truthteller always tells the truth about his beliefs. But an insane person's beliefs are all false, while a sane person's beliefs are all true. So a sane liar ends up telling lies about his true beliefs (ie anything he says is false) and an insane truthteller tells the truth about his false beliefs (ie anything he says is also false). A sane truthteller tells the truth (he tells the truth about his true beliefs) and an insane liar tells the truth (he lies about his false beliefs). The riddles consist of some investigator asking people questions or getting statements from people about themselves or other people, and then reasoning out who is a liar, who's insane etc.

So I was thinking that in addition to your town(truth)/mafia(liar) role, you would get an insane or sane attribute as well. These could match the roles, or not depending on the game, but it would make sense for the doctor to be truthful, but possibly insane, the serial killer to be insane and a liar, normal town folk to be sane and truthful etc. During the day, you wouldn't be able to post just anything. You would be required to ask questions that are answerable with a yes or a no (or a don't know), and which are directed at a specific player, or you could answer another player's questions, subject of course to your personal attributes. Questions would not be allowed to directly reference other player's roles (So you couldn't ask somebody if they were the doctor), and each player would start with a limited number (say 2) question credits. Each question you ask costs a credit, but each question you answer earns you a credit. So you don't have to answer a question that is aimed at you, but you have an incentive to do so (ie you get to ask more questions).

Now, obviously, the mafia stands to gain nothing via the new rules (since they pretty much know everything already) while the town stands to gain quite a bit. But perhaps we can compensate for that by having a larger number of mafia, or possibly by having two rival mafia gangs who are trying to destroy each other as well as the town.

What do you guys think about that? Could it work? Would it make things too easy for the town?

The other idea I had was to have a simulation of a LARP (live action role playing game). There would be a map of locations around the town. In order for the mafia to kill someone, they would actually have to have a member of their gang move into the same location as the victim and be alone (no witnesses). Whenever you went somewhere, or took an action in the location, you would have a chance of leaving behind some evidence of that action. For example, if goon garrots a townie in the saloon, he has the possibility of leaving behind a button or something in the struggle. The townies would need to have tasks that they need to accomplish as well so that they have a reason to move around the map and provide opportunities to be killed etc.

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03-26-2009 at 04:00 PM
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Sillyman
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Actually, playing mafia on a forum has worked well for a long time... the strategy is a bit different (logic and nightstrategy instead of psychology), but I don't really see the need for either of those two variants. Though you could try them out simply as variants for variance's sake.

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03-26-2009 at 04:25 PM
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Dex Stewart
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It seems to me that the one thing that definitely is needed on forum is a higher number of players. A ten to twelve player game could work in RL (go too high and it's not even fun anymore), but online twenty players doesn't seem unreasonable.
03-26-2009 at 04:34 PM
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Sillyman
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Hang on, this gives me an idea... I'm gonna see if I can wrangle a cross-forum mafia game.

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03-28-2009 at 03:35 AM
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zwetschenwasser
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I'm a registered user on mafiascum.net, and hold firm to the motto that scumhunting is an art. :)

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03-28-2009 at 11:37 AM
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stigant
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quote:
the strategy is a bit different (logic and nightstrategy instead of psychology)

Ok, but more than half of the participants in any of the 3 mafias we've played on this forum haven't had any night roles at all, which basically means that half the players are excluded from any nightstrategy (and in some sense, the real fun of the game). I'm sorry to be touchy on this subject, but I've been a townie in all 3 of the mafia games. As for logic, as I pointed out in the post-mortem of the last mafia, the reality never seems to really fulfill the promise of the theory for the townies (I can't speak for the other players with other roles who had at least a little bit more hard information to go on). My variants are intended to give the townies a bit more of a chance at being involved in the strategy, and hence the outcome of the game.

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03-30-2009 at 05:20 PM
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zwetschenwasser
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Stigant, I should technically modkill you for revealing game information in another thread. However, I will be lenient as long as it doesn't happen again.

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03-30-2009 at 09:39 PM
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RoboBob3000
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quote:
zwetschenwasser wrote:
Stigant, I should technically modkill you for revealing game information in another thread. However, I will be lenient as long as it doesn't happen again.
This wasn't a reveal until you revealed it as a reveal. It was very plausable that stigant could have been baiting us.

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03-30-2009 at 10:05 PM
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zwetschenwasser
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quote:
stigant wrote:
quote:
the strategy is a bit different (logic and nightstrategy instead of psychology)

Ok, but more than half of the participants in any of the 3 mafias we've played on this forum haven't had any night roles at all, which basically means that half the players are excluded from any nightstrategy (and in some sense, the real fun of the game). I'm sorry to be touchy on this subject, but I've been a townie in all 3 of the mafia games. As for logic, as I pointed out in the post-mortem of the last mafia, the reality never seems to really fulfill the promise of the theory for the townies (I can't speak for the other players with other roles who had at least a little bit more hard information to go on). My variants are intended to give the townies a bit more of a chance at being involved in the strategy, and hence the outcome of the game.


This is what I have a problem with.

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03-30-2009 at 10:09 PM
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agaricus5
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quote:
zwetschenwasser wrote:
quote:
stigant wrote:
quote:
the strategy is a bit different (logic and nightstrategy instead of psychology)

Ok, but more than half of the participants in any of the 3 mafias we've played on this forum haven't had any night roles at all, which basically means that half the players are excluded from any nightstrategy (and in some sense, the real fun of the game). I'm sorry to be touchy on this subject, but I've been a townie in all 3 of the mafia games. As for logic, as I pointed out in the post-mortem of the last mafia, the reality never seems to really fulfill the promise of the theory for the townies (I can't speak for the other players with other roles who had at least a little bit more hard information to go on). My variants are intended to give the townies a bit more of a chance at being involved in the strategy, and hence the outcome of the game.


This is what I have a problem with.

But I don't understand how that reveals anything. Aren't we on the fourth game now?

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03-30-2009 at 10:32 PM
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RoboBob3000
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My point is that only the moderator of the game wields absolute truth. Stigant could have been lying, but by confirming what he said, you removed all question.

And just to confuse things: In Alone and Deadly Mafia, I am the town doctor.

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03-30-2009 at 11:10 PM
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Kwakstur
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Well, Monkey's game still hasn't technically finished yet (even the dead players like stigant haven't had their roles revealed).

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03-30-2009 at 11:23 PM
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stigant
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quote:
But I don't understand how that reveals anything. Aren't we on the fourth game now?

Right, it's a matter of public record that I was a townie in all three of the mafia games that have concluded.

quote:
Well, Monkey's game still hasn't technically finished yet (even the dead players like stigant haven't had their roles revealed).

fair enough. I've now COMPLETELY ruined that game. I'm awfully sorry about that. :P

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03-30-2009 at 11:51 PM
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TripleM
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So wait.. zwets just ruined the 4th game?
03-31-2009 at 07:00 AM
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stigant
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So wait.. zwets just ruined the 4th game?

No. He's worried that by posting about my role in the current game in another thread, I would have given a lot of undo weight to the statement "stigant is a townie." Whatever my role is (townie or otherwise), this would have given me an unfair advantage in the current game. As I have NOT posted about my role in the current game, his worries are unfounded.

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03-31-2009 at 09:04 AM
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