Fang
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 175
Registered: 07-25-2008
IP: Logged

File: Einar.drh (40.1 KB)
Downloaded 147 times.
License: Public Domain

I've created Einar. I'll make the hold with the least scripting possible, and I've already got the first three areas working. In this hold, we use Rep efficiently: It's experience points! You level up first after 61 Rep points, and it doubles every level. It actually is 60 but you need 1 more point for every level, so 61, 121, 241... And after a certain level, you get more stats. This should be a nice way to make the choice slip past or fight a bit harder.

As I've said, the first three levels should work. The main area is going to be the Autumnfall Waterway, expect to return here often to access new areas.

Edit: New version, also you can access your little backback using CMD. I went with the most logical, no way you can carry 3 swords, 3 shields and 3 accessories in there, so I put 3 accessories, 1 sword and 1 shield. You shouldn't need much more anyway. By the time you'll get the wooden sword, you won't need the goblin biter anymore and by the time you get the briar hacker, you won't need any other sword except the RBS and the briar hacker.

____________________________
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein

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[Last edited by Fang at 01-05-2009 08:56 PM]

Blondbeard
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1486
Registered: 03-31-2005
IP: Logged

Very nice work!

However everything doesn't work. In Conyard Tunnel 2N the stairs ends the hold. Perhaps that is natural this far into the game?

But in 3N2W the red door baring your way out never opens, not even after the Goblin King is defeted. Clearly a bug?

Another thing: I found it quite easy to obtain the long sword in Pump Station 3S2E. Is it suposed to be a long sword there? After obtaining it everything became quite easy. I tried to take the DEF pathes most of the time, and ended with the folowing stats: 4261/110/129/1/1/0/0. Many lives to spare, but that doesn't have to be a bad thing. Let's see what the rest of the hold has to offer

Fang
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 175
Registered: 07-25-2008
IP: Logged

Well, conyard comes from Red Alert in which your main "base" is a Construction Yard, shortened to a Conyard. The door should open after the goblin is defeated, and I need a way to make the goblin-scripted event happen right after the boss is defeated, if you walk two steps north then it's endless cutscene. I'll remove the mud tokens; and I'll find a way to make the longsword impossible to access yet, I thought it already was as you don't have the health for before doing all the Conyard Tunnel part. The stairs in 2N should lead back up, I'll fix that too as there's a little more to explore that is done already, all the way down to the first screen of Summerspring Falls.

Finally, backtracking won't be an issue as there is an accessory you must get in order to backtrack, and you also need it to progress down to the Summerspring Falls. I dare not to say much.

So far so good, I'll reupload a new version soon hopefully. I almost forgot, the levelups get better after a certain level. I'll try to make it give more after another certain level, but I don't know how I'll make that work. I don't wanna bother with a lot of scripting.

Edit: New version with bug fixes. I'd suggest restarting a new game since you probably can't access the Long Sword the first time around.

____________________________
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein

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[Last edited by Fang at 01-04-2009 04:31 AM]

Blondbeard
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1486
Registered: 03-31-2005
IP: Logged

Hmm... Feels as if there are potential places where you haven't thought things through. Once you get the grapplin hook you can return through Pump Station 2S, and bypass the arrow, and get the shield, and enter the stairs area behind it, thus saving a blue key, and get the goblin slayer, if you haven't already. The DEF road is still quite easy, which again isn't a problem. It depends on the rest of the hold.

My ending stats in the entrance of Summerspring Falls: 4278/111/152/6/2/1. I had 2728 Greckles, and a Reputation of 3238.

If you have any specific questions go ahead and ask!

Fang
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 175
Registered: 07-25-2008
IP: Logged

The bronze shield is attainable after you defeat the two soulless (I forgot to put another "boss" theme there) and if you save a blue key at the beginning it should be to get the wooden shield before entering the Tunnel, thus helping you a lot in the long run. I need to find a way to prevent the player to skip the Tunnel if they saved a blue key. And, how did you get so much stats? My first guess would be that you backtracked, but that's a load of greckles and rep, I've not even managed to get that much myself. In fact, after the Tunnel is over, I'm pretty low on health, greckles, and my rep doesn't go over 500 for sure. That also can be a problem, monsters giving easy levels if you backtrack later and one-hit them... I need to put a script to remove the rep they give when you attain a new area.

____________________________
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein

Blondbeard
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1486
Registered: 03-31-2005
IP: Logged

If you take DEF whenever possible you end up with enough DEF to kill mud babies for zero damage (you also have to save a blue key from the first level, and beat a gray man to enter the area behind him, and get more DEF there. Killing all the mud babies gives you lots of greckles, and also allows you to level up a couple of times (I think).

Continuing taking DEF you will be able to take zero damage from normal goblins (or something close to zero), and you can get the Grapplin Hook and back track through 2S of the second level. You can then use the grapplin hook to aquire the good shield in level 2 (the green one). Then you can kill Tar Babies for zero damage, and you can get the sword, and kill all babies. Then you can go and get the Goblin Slayer, and then you can kill the Goblin King, and aquire a blue key, which you can save for later.

Is this understandable, or should I try to write something more walkthroughish?

A final word. As it is now, and as the enemies work, going for a maximized DEF is a much, much better strategy than going for ATK. Kind of the reverse compared to how it is in most newly made holds. The only hold where ATK and DEF strategies seems really balanced right now is TotS, and Tendry's Tale.

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[Last edited by Blondbeard at 01-04-2009 04:44 PM]

Fang
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 175
Registered: 07-25-2008
IP: Logged

Hmm, I hadn't foreseen that coming. Yeah, getting enough defense to defeat everything taking no damage isn't really what I wanted. Guess I'll have to make some ATK choices a bit more appealing...

____________________________
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein

Tim
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1979
Registered: 08-07-2004
IP: Logged

Have played this for a bit. I've usually taken the ATK upgrades so it was hard, and my stats were about half of Blondbeard. (26xx/119/137/23xx/29xx/7/2/1)

Well, at least until the grappling hook bit, but I think you already know why.

There were stuff that I don't understand though.

For example that you can have a Wallwalking as a bonus if you use the Pickaxe in the third level. Since Wallwalking can do more than a Pickaxe it is not really useful.

2S2W in that level (Conyard) is also very strange, as you can have both the ATK and DEF stuff.

I can probably get better stats on a next playthrough, but I won't do it before a new version.

____________________________
The best way to lose customers is to let little kids running loose on a forum with too many mod points.

Fang
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 175
Registered: 07-25-2008
IP: Logged

Tim wrote:
Have played this for a bit. I've usually taken the ATK upgrades so it was hard, and my stats were about half of Blondbeard. (26xx/119/137/23xx/29xx/7/2/1)

Well, at least until the grappling hook bit, but I think you already know why.

There were stuff that I don't understand though.

For example that you can have a Wallwalking as a bonus if you use the Pickaxe in the third level. Since Wallwalking can do more than a Pickaxe it is not really useful.

2S2W in that level (Conyard) is also very strange, as you can have both the ATK and DEF stuff.

I can probably get better stats on a next playthrough, but I won't do it before a new version.

Stay tuned for the wallwalking, it'll be used later. And yeah, I decided to let the choice slip for that one and just choose what one you want first. I remember in Tendry's Tale there are many places where you can choose but come back later and take the other upgrade too. I'm almost done with the Summerspring Falls, and I've also figured out a way to restrain the player from getting too much REP early. And for you people who take ATK over DEF, don't be sad, Swordsman will come in later.

____________________________
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein

Fang
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 175
Registered: 07-25-2008
IP: Logged

New version up. Once you reach Pump Station: 1s5e, don't turn your sound too loud. I warned you. >.>

____________________________
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein

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[Last edited by Fang at 01-05-2009 04:09 AM]

Blondbeard
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1486
Registered: 03-31-2005
IP: Logged

I have to restart the hold, since the tunnel after the superior golem delivers me into solid rock My stats is about the same as last time. 4728/123/161/7/2/0. I left the portable orb for later.

Fang
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 175
Registered: 07-25-2008
IP: Logged

I'd need some scripting help since, as less scripting as I want to put in, I still need to do some scripting and I just had a very good idea... I just need to find a way to make a npc react when an explosion touches it while it moves. I've tried

Imperative Killable
Label "loop"
  Appear at 1,13
  Move 9,0 Forbid Turning
If...
  Wait until item Explosion at (10,13)-(10,13)
  Disappear
  Activate item at (6,7)
  End
Else
  Move 2,0 Forbid Turning
  Disappear
  Go to "loop"

But if the explosion touches it, it simply ignores it and keeps on walking. ;(

The "activate item at" is to open a door when it "dies".

Edit: Ahhh, the post-and-find syndrome, I found how to make it work.

____________________________
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein

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[Last edited by Fang at 01-05-2009 03:21 PM]

Fang
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 175
Registered: 07-25-2008
IP: Logged

File: Einar.drh (40.1 KB)
Downloaded 51 times.
License: Public Domain

Chemical Lair discovered! Do you dare enter the 1st Scientist's realm?

I know it's annoying but it'll be the last time I promise! Since an early area has changed, you'd need to restart again. <.< But good thing, I made the levelups a little easier (30 xp for the first instead of 60) and you reach the next "tier" of leveling faster. I did this because I tested my own hold twice, and both times, I couldn't get to the end (as it stands for now). I don't know how you do to have so much stats or keys, you're just elite. If I designed the hold so it'd be challenging for you, well it'd be too hard for 95% of the other players! xD

I apologise already for all the explosions. I wish there was a way to mute them but there's none except close speakers. <.<

____________________________
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein

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[Last edited by Fang at 01-05-2009 08:58 PM]

Gordius
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 95
Registered: 12-16-2008
IP: Logged

When you head back into Autumnfall after the halls close off, the force arrow in 2N1E traps you there.

Fang
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 175
Registered: 07-25-2008
IP: Logged

Gordius wrote:
When you head back into Autumnfall after the halls close off, the force arrow in 2N1E traps you there.

Muahaha, my evil plan! Behold now the vengeance of Fang!

No, not really. I actually noticed it after playing through again and actually coming back this time. xD Good eyes, I'll fix it.

____________________________
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein

Gordius
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 95
Registered: 12-16-2008
IP: Logged

In Pump Station, you might want to put the scroll that says "no more REP or GR for this level once you go down" before the one-way arrows preventing you from going back and cleaning up. Or, at the very least, after the arrows but on the same screen, so players can undo backward if they didn't save before the Mad Eye.

I don't know if it's intended to be a reward for high-end optimization, but by focusing on DEF, I was still able to clean out all the mud in Pump Station before heading down, except for what's beyond the tar. And I was nearly able to get through the tar, so I'd bet someone slightly better at optimizing than I could do it. In fact, if I hadn't made a strategic (I think), but costly, move in Autumnfall:3N3E, I'm almost sure I could have done it.

After killing the Mad Eye, I have:
HP: 696
ATK: 45
DEF: 65
GR: 1037
REP: 1077
5/1/1 (so I'll get the Wooden Shield up here, but haven't yet)

Gordius
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 95
Registered: 12-16-2008
IP: Logged

Bah, I like my solution in 3N3E better. If you're willing to get hit once by a skipper, you can leave the platform in a place where it is possible to grapple to it from the south. So once you can manage the skippers, you can come back and get all that stuff. But you had to go and ruin it by scripting changes to the room once you enter from the tunnel.

But, that means it's time to go back and see if I can't get the longsword before I kill the Mad Eye. It's going to be tight (and will probably depend on whether I gain another level cleaning up all that mud between the first tar and the second), but I think I can do it.

Edit: Yep, killed the Mad Eye with:

HP: 455
ATK: 85
DEF: 69
GR: 1734
REP: 1894
4/0/1

I think it's the increase in size of that level gain that does it. I'm not sure, but I think if it were +2 +4 instead of +4 +8, I would only be able to kill one of the two required tar babies. Even still, though, I doubt you want tar to be free on this level, which isn't that hard to obtain if you focus on DEF.

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[Last edited by Gordius at 01-06-2009 04:00 AM]

Fang
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 175
Registered: 07-25-2008
IP: Logged

Gordius wrote:
focus on DEF.

People who do that may find themselves with a problem when they get to the 1st Scientist. He has 100 defense and 1000 hp. And 300 atk. Even if you manage to reach so high def that he can't hurt you, you'd still need to hurt him. With few atk, you'll also have trouble to take down the Swordsmans later. Try to keep both about equal, since if you go for only one, you won't get past some parts.

Also, for the true optimisers out there, this won't be of any problem and they'll probably get to keep the speed potion, but for the average player, there's still one to help. The endboss won't have any though.

____________________________
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein

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[Last edited by Fang at 01-06-2009 04:12 AM]

Gordius
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 95
Registered: 12-16-2008
IP: Logged

I don't know. There's more than enough ATK available where I'm not forced to choose (e.g. Pump Station:2S2E) to keep things manageable. What I'm really focusing on doing is leveling up, and at least through Pump Station, the way to do that is to go DEF. But now I'm at the "End of Hold" scroll (well, actually, in the room with, but not quite to, the flippers) with:

HP: 3410
ATK: 137
DEF: 166
GR: 2 (need 640 more for the flippers)
REP: 3897
0/3/0 (this is my current problem, actually, as I used up yellow keys in places I normally wouldn't to try to squeak out 4000 greckles, didn't quite make it, and now can't get through the trapdoor puzzle in Chemical Lair)
I have Wall Walker, Grappling Hook, used Hand Bomb on Oremite-blocked wall that doesn't currently lead anywhere, wasted an Invisibility Potion making Chemical Lair:1W passable, because I wasn't paying attention to what I was doing, but both could still be available if I had a good use for them currently.

Now, it might well be better policy in the long run to switch to an ATK focus starting with Conyard Tunnel, but the benefits of having gained several levels killing free mud and obtaining the Long Sword before leaving Pump Station really seem to me to outweigh the benefits of the ATK available in the first two areas. Note that, as a result of that approach, I ended Pump Station with a higher ATK than DEF with the early retrieval of the Long Sword. If I'd focused on ATK from then on, I'd probably be in pretty good shape now. As it is, I'm only about 350 HP from being able to kill 1st Scientist right now (though, obviously, there's still some stuff between him and me, both that I'll have to kill and that I'll gain stats from).

Fang
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 175
Registered: 07-25-2008
IP: Logged

I'll try and find a way to make the long sword only accessible after Conyard. What I'm really focusing on for now though is polishing up the storyline, placing more scripts that prevent the return behind to mass level up (greckles will still be able to be gotten though) and finishing the almost last level. Did you see my shiny Mirror Shield? In the real version, it's a Lucky shield, basically it's a good shield that gives 2x greckles! But it's Metal so, bad on oremites.

____________________________
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein

Gordius
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 95
Registered: 12-16-2008
IP: Logged

Is that what that is behind the black door in the "End of Hold" room? It wouldn't right click. Looked pretty, though.

Also, is the REP card obtainable yet? I don't see a way to get it without all of the items you suggest are necessary, but I don't see a way to get to the flippers without having used the portable orb on the Lair door, nor the wall walker without using the accessible pick axe. I assumed more would be available in as yet unfinished portions of the hold (or the inaccessible pickaxe in Conyard Tunnel).

Fang
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 175
Registered: 07-25-2008
IP: Logged

Gordius wrote:
Is that what that is behind the black door in the "End of Hold" room? It wouldn't right click. Looked pretty, though.

Also, is the REP card obtainable yet? I don't see a way to get it without all of the items you suggest are necessary, but I don't see a way to get to the flippers without having used the portable orb on the Lair door, nor the wall walker without using the accessible pick axe. I assumed more would be available in as yet unfinished portions of the hold (or the inaccessible pickaxe in Conyard Tunnel).

If you want a walkthrough on how to do it...
Well, first I'll post three hints then the full walkthrough. It's pretty elaborate. And that pickaxe is really just for looks.

Hint #1:


Hint #2:


Hint #3:


I hope you noticed all the strange creations around too.

____________________________
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein

Gordius
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 95
Registered: 12-16-2008
IP: Logged

Oh, if I had all of those things, I can see how I would get it. And getting to this point clarified why there was the seemingly silly backup short sword in your inventory to start with. It just isn't clear to me how to get to that point with all of those things, in particular given the axe/wallwalker tradeoff that seems required. Sorry I wasn't clearer.

Someone Else
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2357
Registered: 06-14-2005
IP: Logged

Okay, I used the pick to get into the Chemical Lair. Is this intended? Also, in the room with the flippers you can bypass the first door, making a total cost of 3960, not 4000.

Fang
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 175
Registered: 07-25-2008
IP: Logged

Gordius wrote:
Oh, if I had all of those things, I can see how I would get it. And getting to this point clarified why there was the seemingly silly backup short sword in your inventory to start with. It just isn't clear to me how to get to that point with all of those things, in particular given the axe/wallwalker tradeoff that seems required. Sorry I wasn't clearer.

It's not so much to get there with them, but you do need the pick to get the wall walking so either way, it is needed to get the card.

Using the pick to bypass the door isn't intended, but you can save an orb that way... And get both the sword and shield later. I'll fix it. As for skipping the first door, well go ahead and use your pick of you want to use it for 40 greckles.

____________________________
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein

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[Last edited by Fang at 01-07-2009 01:45 AM]

deftriver
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 77
Registered: 07-11-2007
IP: Logged

There's one thing that bother's me (besides not being able to complete the hold at the moment), but why do you take away the ability to get greckles from enemies on the whole level, even in places you can't access before going to the next level? It just doesn't seem quite right. I keep trying but can't get that 4000!

Gordius
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 95
Registered: 12-16-2008
IP: Logged

I still can't see how either the Wall Walker or the Pick Axe by itself is enough (unless I use the Pick Axe to bypass the Lair door, which, yeah, should be fixed).



As for the other, 1st Scientist has an ATK of 400, not 300, so I did end up needing more ATK to kill him. Playing exactly as I had through Pump Station and then focusing on ATK from then on worked pretty well, and if a) I'd been able to escape the still open areas of Autumnfall, and b) the entry room warp connected back to the interior warp, instead of just the main Lair entrance, I'd have been able to do it without the use of a potion (the spare invisibility worked better than the speed potion, actually).

Someone Else is pointing out that the first greckle door in the Flippers room is situated in a way that you can simply walk around it.

Fang
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 175
Registered: 07-25-2008
IP: Logged

You don't have to get the flippers to end the game, it makes it easier but you don't have to, kinda like Tendry's Tale. As for the
If it doesn't then I have to fix that too. I'll look about the greckle door in the flippers room. Also in the next version, REP is cut off but not greckles. Should make it a bit easier for the flippers. But anyway, the rep card shouldn't be accessible before you beat the 1st Scientist.

The first orb is to open the door, the second one is a big choice. Sword, shield or rep card?

____________________________
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein

Someone Else
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2357
Registered: 06-14-2005
IP: Logged

When I said that you could bypass a door, I meant that you could move diagonally in the room that holds the flippers to avoid a greckle gate. It doesn't require an item.

Fang
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 175
Registered: 07-25-2008
IP: Logged

Someone Else wrote:
When I said that you could bypass a door, I meant that you could move diagonally in the room that holds the flippers to avoid a greckle gate. It doesn't require an item.

Figured it out thanks to Gordius. Fixed in the next version.

____________________________
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein