TFMurphy
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Nuntar wrote:
I'm not sure which of the two rooms I mentioned you're talking about here, as exact ATK figures never entered into my calculations. In 2S1W, it's obviously good to kill the brain eventually, because what you get is worth more than the green key you use up, but as soon as you know that then it's obviously good to kill the brain immediately to save HP. In 2S1E, it's obviously better to take the sword before killing the monsters than to do it the other way round. I shouldn't have emphasised the fact that for me the monsters did no damage after getting the sword, because it would make no difference if this were not the case.

In 2S1W, it's not apparent the *first* time you enter the room that it's best to get anything in that room immediately, because all of it costs - even stabbing the Evil Eye in the back to reach the Brain. Only once you realise that you cannot reach 38 ATK in order to allow you to one-hit Evil Eyes from behind do you know that it's time to tackle this room.

In 2S1E, the only way you'd be able to collect the sword first is if you've already collected the Blue Key from 2S1W. If there'd been more monsters blocking the Blue Key in 2S1W, it'd be a closer call - at 31 ATK/23 DEF, the Blue Key in 2S1E only costs 80 HP, whilst the one in 2S1W costs 74 HP or 41 HP if you spend 40 greckles. What nails this coffin is the ATK Gem by the brain and the Goblin boss, which drives you to collect it before tackling the Goblin (since 34 ATK takes almost 100 damage more than 36 ATK).

The Brains themselves aren't badly used - they make hitting ATK thresholds in that room more important. It could easily be more interesting simply by moving some of the bonuses elsewhere (like the ATK Gem and Green Key in 2S1W).

Sillyman
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Uh... are there supposed to be two Stalwarts in Prologue: Find Your Way: Once North?

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Fang
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Sillyman wrote:
Uh... are there supposed to be two Stalwarts in Prologue: Find Your Way: Once North?

See first post. It's a bug, I'll fix it eventually. Yeah I know, it's annoying to see two ourselves but it's not as bad as a gameplay bug, I can wait before fixing it.

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"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein

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[Last edited by Fang at 12-08-2008 06:12 PM]

Fang
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Chapter 3 live! Dare you step in the Hall of Achievements?


Edit: Stupid ol' me forgot you can lock doors to walk over other doors. Fixed that in the version I have, though I won't post it over one small way to skip stuff, just do as if you couldn't. >.>

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[Last edited by Fang at 12-09-2008 04:30 AM]

Blondbeard
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Should we never walk over doors? Like not to get the Goblin Biter? And the sneaky player (me in this case) can get the inventory and still keep the wooden sword. You just walk in to grab the short sword, but take the wooden sword back after you've gotten the short sword. Then you walk out.

Of course this costs some extra lives when obtaining the hand bomb, and is almost like an extra secret. On the plus side you save the hand bomb for later, while still getting the goblin biter. I think this is okay. As I said it's like an extra secret

The storage inventory breaks when you use your little inventory inside it. Then the exit square loops back to the storage invetory. The Swordsguard defeted flashes when you enter the room with the swordsguard.

Okay... You seriously didn't anticipate me taking the wall walk past the door in chapter 2 1W. That kind of breaks the hold. An easy fix would be two doors instead of one

Chapter 3 2S1W Is realy hard and costly, and 1N2E is impossible, since the doors where closed when I entered. Is it correct that all keys I haven't picked up in a level is destroyed once I enter a new triology. Otherwise it seems a bit unfair to destroy the ones I have picked up.

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[Last edited by Blondbeard at 12-09-2008 11:50 AM]

Fang
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Blondbeard wrote:
Should we never walk over doors? Like not to get the Goblin Biter? And the sneaky player (me in this case) can get the inventory and still keep the wooden sword. You just walk in to grab the short sword, but take the wooden sword back after you've gotten the short sword. Then you walk out.

Of course this costs some extra lives when obtaining the hand bomb, and is almost like an extra secret. On the plus side you save the hand bomb for later, while still getting the goblin biter. I think this is okay. As I said it's like an extra secret

Hmm... That would save 1 blue key for the Chapter 3 if you decide to be going after the shield, but if not then you'd have saved the key anyway.

The storage inventory breaks when you use your little inventory inside it. Then the exit square loops back to the storage invetory. The Swordsguard defeted flashes when you enter the room with the swordsguard.

I found the Swordguard problem, it's because I've moved him after having done the script. But for the inventory, I have no idea how to fix that. I'll tinker around a bit...

Okay... You seriously didn't anticipate me taking the wall walk past the door in chapter 2 1W. That kind of breaks the hold. An easy fix would be two doors instead of one

Eep! Right! Portable orb, sneaky sneaky!

Chapter 3 2S1W Is realy hard and costly, and 1N2E is impossible, since the doors where closed when I entered. Is it correct that all keys I haven't picked up in a level is destroyed once I enter a new triology. Otherwise it seems a bit unfair to destroy the ones I have picked up.

Actually, 2S1W didn't cost anything when I've tested it, and it resulted in a massive greckle gain, I had to change it and in the new version it is now Tar, though there are no tar mothers. 1N2E won't have doors once I'm done programming it, it's the one that requires the most script so far...

For the keys, some are required when progressing in your Way (Remember, gotta choose one out of five) and it would be pretty easy to just go back to earlier levels and take them. I can't afford that as the last rewards of the Ways are very ginormous. (Really Big Sword, Oremite Shield, etc)

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Blondbeard
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Okay... So playing optimally would be to use up all keys of every trioligy?

As for 2S1W: Tar babies are tough, and I'm not even sure it's compleatable with tar. I'm no expert at removing tar, but it seems to me that it's impossible. I bet you just tested the room with mud, right?

And finally: Actually there's a way to get the flippers of the prologe for chapter 2. Just swim out and move the raft a few steps north (unfortunatly you'll lose the grappling hook in the process). Is this intended?

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[Last edited by Blondbeard at 12-09-2008 12:55 PM]

Fang
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Blondbeard wrote:
And finally: Actually there's a way to get the flippers of the prologe for chapter 2. Just swim out and move the raft a few steps north (unfortunatly you'll lose the grappling hook in the process). Is this intended?

Nope, I'll look into it when I'm at home.

As for the tar, I'll also look into it, I'll find a way to solve that up.

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Fang
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Nuntar wrote:
OK, I've got as far as I can. Glad you don't have to get all the green keys to progress, though I can see now that getting the Goblin-Biter would help (I didn't manage to get it in the latest version.)

There were some very interesting rooms in Level 3! I'll have to go back and remind myself of them so I can tell you which were my favourites. The only two I'm not so keen on are 1S, which I'm not even going to try to solve (how on earth do you reach the trapdoors in the middle?) and 2S1E, which reminds me of one of my favourite puzzles in TCB -- but that one had arrows in a QUARTER of the squares. This one is just too complex to make me think it will be fun to solve; it's just off-putting.

Chapter 3 puzzles are the only areas where the keys aren't going to be erased when you enter Chapter 4. Well, some won't and some will, for example the "greckle" challenge will be modified to make it even more costly, thus making you choose between the greckle doors in 1W and those for a key, but the key will be gone when you enter C4, because if you return with say, 5k greckle it's very easy to earn more keys than you would be supposed to.

Basically, collect only the number of keys you need from those challenges, and if you want to optimize then collect those that are easy first.

PS: Skeleton keys won't be wiped, and the 1S puzzle awards a skeleton key. Also, it's very possible: Gotta make the two trapdoors in the middle fall, don't rely on mimics for those.

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Fang
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I liked fegundoes.
As for the platform-for-slippers-Prologue thing, in the next version it's fixed.

Edit: I have no idea, absolutely none, as to how to fix the inventories problem.

Edit2: On the other hand, Clockwork is fixed and will work in the next version! So is Tar challenge!

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[Last edited by Fang at 12-10-2008 01:55 AM]

Fang
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Nuntar wrote:

Fang wrote:
Edit: I have no idea, absolutely none, as to how to fix the inventories problem.

Ah, I see, the problem is with the "previous location" level entrance.

I can see only two ways to fix it -- I would say only one, but technically there is a second way which I won't tell you about as it would be unutterably tedious to script. The other way is to disable use of the small inventory while in the bigger one. Have the script for the big inventory set a variable StandingInBigInventory to 1 when you enter and 0 when you leave, and have the script for the small inventory check its value before warping.

I see that but in later levels, you will be using invisibility/speed potions quite often as well as other nifty tools, so that's when all that storage actually becomes useful. You'll want to travel with an empty inventory slot on yourself at all time and I can't make the portable inventory bigger as it is portable, it'd make no sense otherwise. If you wanna store three speed potions, it's gonna be a bit of trouble to exit the storage, enter inventory, take potion, exit inventory, enter storage...

To be honest, I'd go with the tedious way so we can use the small inventory in the big one. I'm still trying to think of one though, as obviously the "set var" way won't fit the job.

Edit: Since both are on the same level, I could do a passage to go from one to the other, though it would be still tedious as you should be able to go from the Storage to the Inventory but not the Inventory to the Storage, if for example you'd use the Inventory somewhere there isn't any Storage room.

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[Last edited by Fang at 12-10-2008 02:31 AM]

Fang
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Oh, then it's not that bad... About 40 lines to write, 20 entrances to place once the hold is done. I'll do it after I'm done with chapters, try to not use both inventories at once if you could in the meantime. x.x

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Sillyman
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I actually think the passage would be a better idea. It's quite simple, just make a passage that ends in a pressure plate and a black or red gate, then put another gate blocking you from exiting the storage/inventory without closing the way to the storage again. The pressure plate toggles those two.

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Fang
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Sillyman wrote:
I actually think the passage would be a better idea. It's quite simple, just make a passage that ends in a pressure plate and a black or red gate, then put another gate blocking you from exiting the storage/inventory without closing the way to the storage again. The pressure plate toggles those two.

But if I use "toggle", it keeps the gate open for the time I stand on the pressure plate. =/ I guess we could always use an orb that... wait, THAT is the solution! An orb that toggles two doors: One that is closed in front and one open in the back. You go through, strike the orb, and now you gotta strike it again to go back... Closing the door to the inventory at the same time!

Edit: New version up, going to sleep now. Enjoy the first three chapters! (And try to find the hidden shield!)
Inventory "fixed" though I haven't put the script to disable using CMD in Storage - don't use it until I'm done with it, though you're free to use the tunnel.

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[Last edited by Fang at 12-10-2008 04:08 AM]

Sillyman
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Oh, well that works. Yeah. Forgot there was only one sort of pressure plate in RPG for some reason.

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Fang
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Sillyman wrote:
Oh, well that works. Yeah. Forgot there was only one sort of pressure plate in RPG for some reason.

From what I've seen so far, orbs are underused compared to classic DRoD. Maybe because orbs feel more "Beethro" than "stalwart".

I can't decide if I want to put Interlude before or after chapter 4. >.>


Edit: Don't worry if I don't post for a day or two, college just ended and I'm enjoying the last weekend I have before the month of vacation! I'm keeping my free month caravelnet key that came with Tendry's Tale for said month, that way I can discuss about the hold when I'm building it as well!

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"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein

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[Last edited by Fang at 12-13-2008 05:47 AM]

Fang
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Interlude 1 should work properly, though there may be scripting messes here and there, if you noticed any then please notify me. ^^ When I've tested it, it was all good though.

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Fang
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Orb is fixed, you now have a sword to activate it whenever you head there, and made the hall from small to large inventory smaller.

Flippers and pick, you can use inventory.

I'll play around with the third boss but I've tested it and it should be completable without getting the shield and normal stats. The bomb isn't meant to be used against the guy, but if you want to, all the more power to you.

Problem is with a wall, the player could turn the mimic swords in almost every direction when they're close to the wall. Remember, that challenge gives a skeleton key. I can change the light, though.

I'm not gonna change 3S1E, it's not that hard, and if you can't find the solution then move on another puzzle. I may make it award more keys though to make it more appealing if the player would want to do it.

I don't know how I'd give the player a reward for getting more keys since they get wiped at chapter 4... I'd need a full count of every key you had with full optimisation and using the less keys possible if you could do it. If I can get my hands on that, then I can make a secret room or something with the appropriate doors.

I'd rather finish chapters first than putting awesome music. I'll eventually add it.


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Gordius
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It's interesting. I've been reading a lot of these threads and it's clear that, in general, Nuntar is a lot better at DROD RPG than I am. I have yet (since the change that took the flippers out of the opening floor when you go back up) to have enough health to kill the level 3 boss, for example.

But I found both 3:1S and 3:2S1E to be pretty straightforward and don't see any need to change them. I didn't make use of the arrows under those bombs, so it shouldn't be necessary for a player to know that they're there. And, in fact, if Nuntar solved it by blowing them up first, I'd take them out and just leave them as bombs on regular floor.

One thing I would change, though. If there isn't a reason for the flippers and grappling hook to be on the beginning floor at the start and then disappear when you go back later, I'd just take them out entirely. It doesn't make any sense as it is now.

Fang
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Gordius wrote:
It's interesting. I've been reading a lot of these threads and it's clear that, in general, Nuntar is a lot better at DROD RPG than I am. I have yet (since the change that took the flippers out of the opening floor when you go back up) to have enough health to kill the level 3 boss, for example.

But I found both 3:1S and 3:2S1E to be pretty straightforward and don't see any need to change them. I didn't make use of the arrows under those bombs, so it shouldn't be necessary for a player to know that they're there. And, in fact, if Nuntar solved it by blowing them up first, I'd take them out and just leave them as bombs on regular floor.

One thing I would change, though. If there isn't a reason for the flippers and grappling hook to be on the beginning floor at the start and then disappear when you go back later, I'd just take them out entirely. It doesn't make any sense as it is now.

At first it was kinda to show that he didn't come bare-handed, he was well-prepared, for the flippers and grapple. For the arrows, you can blow up the mimics without killing yourself, and that's what I want to avoid, as if you do it then you could reach the platforms yourself.

For the briar hacker, it was first meant to be that but I figured giving the player that sword too early would kind of defeat the purpose of briar puzzles later on. I'm gonna change that save name.

Music was updated for the entrance of C3.

Lastly, a secret room, wait two... no, three! were added. One for the keys, the others... We'll see.

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Gordius
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>>>For the arrows, you can blow up the mimics without killing yourself, and that's what I want to avoid, as if you do it then you could reach the platforms yourself.

I believe that you can avoid Nuntar's alternative solution by taking the existing arrows out and putting a string of east-facing (west on the other side) arrows adjacent to them in the space you have available for the player's platform. Those arrows will only prevent you from stepping onto the squares covered by bombs, so they shouldn't affect any actions that the player takes unless the bombs have been blown up. But those bombs along that stretch will now blow up the mimic if you hit them with the sword. Plus, now there aren't any arrows underneath bombs where you can't see them.