t_z
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 34
Registered: 06-15-2006
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At the start of the second half of Tendry's Tale, At this point, all stats are intentionally reset. The problem is, if Tendry has < 500 HP, the HP will not be set to 500, but retain its lower value. This can make the game more difficult or even impossible to complete.

I think the HP should always be set to 500 at this point. Could this be considered in a patch?

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[Last edited by t_z at 09-30-2008 03:39 AM : rephrase]

slimm tom
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1228
Registered: 10-14-2006
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I second this. I've got there twice with about 100 HP left and I found it was difficult to move on from there.

mrimer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 5058
Registered: 02-04-2003
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Wait...so we're talking about changing a level so that it gives you more HP if you're in a situation where the game is difficult or impossible to complete from that point? Where else does the game do that? Essentially, strategizing to avoid situations like this is what the game is all about. I don't see a need to change this here while this mechanic (i.e. being able to get stuck) remains in place everywhere else in the game.

Also, why wouldn't you just (re)start the game from Rule 1 and take the path to Part II if you want more HP in Homeland?

My current intention is to leave this as-is.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

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[Last edited by mrimer at 09-30-2008 04:54 PM]

eytanz
Level: Smitemaster

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mrimer wrote:
Wait...so we're talking about changing a level so that it gives you more HP if you're in a situation where the game is difficult or impossible to complete from that point? Where else does the game do that? Essentially, strategizing to avoid situations like this is what the game is all about. I don't see a need to change this here while this mechanic (i.e. being able to get stuck) remains in place everywhere else in the game.

I think that what makes this situation unique is the fact that the break between the two parts is essentially a reset. There is no other place in the game where your ATK and DEF scores go down, either.

The reasoning is - "this is a place where scores are set to arbitrary values, and it would be more internally consistent if they did that with no reference to the original values".

If it were up to me, I would change it, but only if you're making independently motivated changes to the hold file anyway. Otherwise, I'd leave it as is.

Also, why wouldn't you just (re)start the game from Rule 1 and take the path to Part II if you want more HP in Homeland?

This is a good workaround, but it may not be apparent to novice players who are more likely to run into this problem that more experienced players.

____________________________
I got my avatar back! Yay!

Sillyman
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 339
Registered: 09-08-2006
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mrimer wrote:
Wait...so we're talking about changing a level so that it gives you more HP if you're in a situation where the game is difficult or impossible to complete from that point? Where else does the game do that? Essentially, strategizing to avoid situations like this is what the game is all about. I don't see a need to change this here while this mechanic (i.e. being able to get stuck) remains in place everywhere else in the game.

Also, why wouldn't you just (re)start the game from Rule 1 and take the path to Part II if you want more HP in Homeland?

My current intention is to leave this as-is.

As eytanz said right before me, we're talking about making this existing reset point flawlessly consistent. If there's a point where you're resetting the player's stats, the stats should be fully reset. And being able to restart the game and take the shortcut path means to me that you should definitely reset the HP even if it's below 500, but don't bother publishing this change by itself.

____________________________
Who, me?
FNORD

TripleM
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1373
Registered: 02-05-2003
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I would like to see this changed too. From a personal experience, I noticed the jump to the second half on level 1, and the first time I reached the second half 'the long way' I didn't have enough HP to survive 2 simple roaches. I felt like the level skip was 'cheating' or would lose some part of the ending having only played half the game.

I didn't realise > 500 was reduced to 500.. if it hadn't been, I would have been happy leaving it as is, since then the better you do on the first half, the better positioned you are. As it is, if you're being restricted to 500, I think its better that happens for all people..

mrimer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 5058
Registered: 02-04-2003
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All right. I'll change this along with a slew of other tweaks that ought to be made to the official hold for flawlessly consistent consistency.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

Mechadragon
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 61
Registered: 10-30-2004
IP: Logged

mrimer wrote:
All right. I'll change this along with a slew of other tweaks that ought to be made to the official hold for flawlessly consistent consistency.

Don't forget the redundant redundancy.