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Caravel Forum : DROD RPG Boards : RPG Architecture : Tower of the Citizen (First hold, made with demo)
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vittro
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I finished the demo too soon, and I decided to create a hold. I fully tested it and created one level with 4 rooms to show you. You have to go through all the rooms different time to power-up yourself and kill the EVIL BOSS near the stairs.

Also, if you wonder what the level name means, you will get it when I make more levels.

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09-13-2008 at 05:54 PM
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TFMurphy
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I highly suggest all architects at least play through the demo and thoroughly *explore* all the options in the editor before racing to produce holds.

As it is:

1) Eyes that don't act like eyes and goblins that don't act like goblins are kinda bad. Goblin-Smiter won't work on the Goblins in 1E or the Goblin King, and not being able to get a back attack on the Mad Eye in 1W is disconcerting. Research the traits normal monsters have before choosing what your scripted monsters should have. Ideally, you shouldn't have to use scripted monsters at all, other than for unique situations.

2) You don't need to kill the Goblin King at all, since you can just grab the Blue Keys and then use the Hand Bomb on the boss.

It's a reasonable start, but please don't be in such a rush to get something out. There's many things in the game that you need to learn in order to make decent holds, and the best way to do that is to play with things and learn how they react.
09-13-2008 at 07:18 PM
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vittro
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quote:
TFMurphy wrote:
I highly suggest all architects at least play through the demo and thoroughly *explore* all the options in the editor before racing to produce holds.

As it is:

1) Eyes that don't act like eyes and goblins that don't act like goblins are kinda bad. Goblin-Smiter won't work on the Goblins in 1E or the Goblin King, and not being able to get a back attack on the Mad Eye in 1W is disconcerting. Research the traits normal monsters have before choosing what your scripted monsters should have. Ideally, you shouldn't have to use scripted monsters at all, other than for unique situations.

2) You don't need to kill the Goblin King at all, since you can just grab the Blue Keys and then use the Hand Bomb on the boss.

It's a reasonable start, but please don't be in such a rush to get something out. There's many things in the game that you need to learn in order to make decent holds, and the best way to do that is to play with things and learn how they react.


I used custom NPCs because I wanted the player to have a specific number or HP, or else, where are the logic puzzles?

For example, in 1W, the player must have more than 377(not exact value) HP to kill the eye.

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09-13-2008 at 07:31 PM
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Sillyman
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Well then, try adding in more script commands. Put the Goblin Weakness command on the goblins, and the appropriate behaviour commands on the eyes.

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09-13-2008 at 07:33 PM
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vittro
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Sillyman wrote:
Well then, try adding in more script commands. Put the Goblin Weakness command on the goblins, and the appropriate behaviour commands on the eyes.


I'm probably missing the point...

How can I put scripting commands on goblins? Also, how does that helps me in the problem, can I have a <377 "gate" that must be killed?

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09-13-2008 at 07:40 PM
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silver
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Don't use an eye if you don't mean an eye - there's probably other things available to use, such as NPCs that are normally indestructible - just have it announce "you have to fight me to pass" or something so the player knows it's not the usual indestructible NPC - or if you must use an eye, at least put a scroll splaining the player needs to right-click it to see that it's a different eye than a normal eye -- it's all about managing player expectation - without special notes, players expect eyes to have stats of 60/32/8 and violating that is bad karma (violation of the law of least surprise)

if you put goblins as NPCs (instead of just putting regular goblins), then you can (should/have to?) attach a script to them. "goblin weakness" is an 'Imperative' (I think). just make it first line of the script. If the goblins are regular goblin monsters, shouldn't they already have goblin weakness? if not, weird. you may need to add an invisible NPC that targets them and invokes it, but I'm not sure.

by the way, I agree with "don't be in such a rush to get something out. There's many things in the game that you need to learn in order to make decent holds" -- if I were a Hold Admin, I'd be vetoing all hold promotions for the first six weeks after release on general principle (unless I knew the submitter was a beta tester/developer and/or had finished the game)



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[Last edited by silver at 09-13-2008 07:50 PM]
09-13-2008 at 07:46 PM
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TFMurphy
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quote:
vittro wrote:
I'm probably missing the point...

How can I put scripting commands on goblins? Also, how does that helps me in the problem, can I have a <377 "gate" that must be killed?


You can't put script commands on normal monsters. The problem was that you have characters that look like Goblins in 1E, and are called Goblins, but don't have "Goblin weakness" Behavior or "Attack in front when back turned" Behavior. They're not 'Goblins'. (EDIT: Oh, they also have "Face Target" behavior too. But having an inattentive goblin is less surprising than one that's immune to Goblin-Biter)

Similarly, normal Eyes have "Attack in front" and "Surprised from behind" Behavior. An Eye that doesn't have those traits and can be attacked from behind is going to surprise people, and not in a good way.

As for what you're asking, if you want a purely HP-related door, you'd probably want an "Attack First" Behavior to guarantee that the player having too much ATK won't instantly defeat it. (This won't work if there's an Attack First weapon in your Hold though... in which case you might want something involving auto-facing swordsmen, but you'll have to test and find what works best for you)

Be aware that there may be other ways to circumvent the obstacles you place - if there were too many ATK Up bonuses at the start, I could probably have destroyed the Eye without taking as much damage as you though. Even small holds can quickly get more complicated than you'd think, and you might easily miss other ways of solving your intended puzzles. This is not always a bad thing, but it does mean you have to be rather careful with what options you make available and how you expect the player to overcome problems.

[Last edited by TFMurphy at 09-13-2008 11:05 PM]
09-13-2008 at 07:56 PM
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Tim
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icon Re: Tower of the Citizen (0)  
quote:
silver wrote:
If I were a Hold Admin, I'd be vetoing all hold promotions for the first six weeks after release on general principle (unless I knew the submitter was a beta tester/developer and/or had finished the game)
We already have RPG holds on the promotion list. And it's done by a beta tester.

But if the title of "The Architect of the First Bad RPG Hold" is still open.

Please submit your hold ASAP to get this title. :P

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09-13-2008 at 08:28 PM
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Insane
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icon Re: Tower of the Citizen (0)  
quote:
Tim wrote:
quote:
silver wrote:
If I were a Hold Admin, I'd be vetoing all hold promotions for the first six weeks after release on general principle (unless I knew the submitter was a beta tester/developer and/or had finished the game)
We already have RPG holds on the promotion list. And it's done by a beta tester.

But if the title of "The Architect of the First Bad RPG Hold" is still open.

Please submit your hold ASAP to get this title. :P


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09-13-2008 at 09:07 PM
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