Muzozavr
Level: Roachling
Rank Points: 11
Registered: 03-16-2006
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Level VICE can't be solved in SubTerra. Don't know if it could be done in the old version, as I couldn't get there back then, but now with the new version, it's definitely broken!
And VERSA, if it's there, also can't be done, for the same reason:

There's a rock square 3x3, and in Supaplex you need to stand in the middle, snap the tiles above and below and walk off to the side, so that both rocks fall and you can push the last rock.
In SubTerra, this doesn't work anymore! Which means you can't get past it.

Radiant
Level: Moderator

Rank Points: 142
Registered: 02-05-2003
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It requires a different trick, but nevertheless it works.

Try standing to the upper right of the rock square, and running down, down, right. If done correctly, three rocks should roll off.


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= Radiant =

Muzozavr
Level: Roachling
Rank Points: 11
Registered: 03-16-2006
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Well, bugger, after doing similar stunts to solve crushinator (which I still haven't mastered yet) I SHOULD have thought of that!
Call that "locked in a mindset"!
Thank you.

The Mystic
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 18
Registered: 09-20-2006
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Muzozavr wrote:
Level VICE can't be solved in SubTerra. Don't know if it could be done in the old version, as I couldn't get there back then, but now with the new version, it's definitely broken!
And VERSA, if it's there, also can't be done, for the same reason:

The levels "Vice" and "Versa" do have solutions, and both require the method Radiant described. Also, just so you know, you CAN solve all the "Supaplex" levels; I know this because I've solved the entire set. They just require some patience, as some of them are rather tricky.

____________________________
Either I'm crazy, or everybody else is nuts. And I know I'm not crazy because the little man who lives on my shoulder told me so.
If people don't think there's something wrong with you, there's something wrong with you.
Oh well. Another day, another dementia.

Radiant
Level: Moderator

Rank Points: 142
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The Mystic wrote:
Also, just so you know, you CAN solve all the "Supaplex" levels; I know this because I've solved the entire set.

Yep. Furthermore, I have a recorded demo of every level in every set, and I replay those before releasing an upgrade. This is to ensure that all levels remain possible.


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= Radiant =

Muzozavr
Level: Roachling
Rank Points: 11
Registered: 03-16-2006
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Well, I've solved all the 111 levels in the original DOS Supaplex, so with most of the levels I've had pretty easy time, but I didn't have the time for a few levels yet, and on VICE-VERSA I was deluded by the original solution.

And I still think that this new trick does not make any physical sense whatsoever.

The Mystic
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 18
Registered: 09-20-2006
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I don't think it's supposed to make sense, since the game's physics don't totally correspond to real life. However, the movement Radiant described does work; the trick is to do it in one quick motion.

____________________________
Either I'm crazy, or everybody else is nuts. And I know I'm not crazy because the little man who lives on my shoulder told me so.
If people don't think there's something wrong with you, there's something wrong with you.
Oh well. Another day, another dementia.

Muzozavr
Level: Roachling
Rank Points: 11
Registered: 03-16-2006
IP: Logged

Yes, it does work, but it still doesn't make any sense whatsoever. The original trick was at least a little understandable.

Radiant
Level: Moderator

Rank Points: 142
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I suppose that in a puzzle game, physics are not all they're cracked up to be.

Still, it would make sense that off a rectangular set of orbs, a triangular piece would slide off.

Gametechnically, it works because just because something is rolling off of the middle boulder, doesn't mean the middle boulder can't start rolling itself. Try the level "Laws of Physics" for some weirder examples.


____________________________
= Radiant =

Muzozavr
Level: Roachling
Rank Points: 11
Registered: 03-16-2006
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Then why doesn't the original trick work in the first place?

The reason this one makes even less sense is because in real life, and indeed, all other games I've played tend to mask this, things don't roll off as a horizontal-vertical move. They roll in diagonal. In that case the middle tile would have been occupied already.

The old trick had them rolling off at the same time, which made some sense.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to change anything, I just explain why it doesn't make any physical sense to me.

Radiant
Level: Moderator

Rank Points: 142
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Muzozavr wrote:
The reason this one makes even less sense is because in real life, and indeed, all other games I've played tend to mask this, things don't roll off as a horizontal-vertical move. They roll in diagonal.

No problem

A bit of background: there are essentially three kinds of movement in grid-based puzzle games. The first one is step-based, thus the objects "snap" from one grid square to the next. Since this is easiest to code, it should come as no surprise that many puzzle games use this.
The second is smooth. Instead of snapping, the objects move animatedly to the next square. However, they are still always in exactly one square, it just looks better.
And the third is asynchronous, which is to say objects move individually, and temporarily occupy two squares. This is what SubTerra does.

In the latter two games, if we were to use diagonal movement, a rock would pass partially through another rock. So instead, rocks roll sideways, then down. Incidentally, the same thing happens in Supaplex, which is why you can pull off the "two rocks balancing trick".


____________________________
= Radiant =

The Mystic
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 18
Registered: 09-20-2006
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Radiant wrote:
Try the level "Laws of Physics" for some weirder examples.

"Quirk Tutorial" is a good one too.

____________________________
Either I'm crazy, or everybody else is nuts. And I know I'm not crazy because the little man who lives on my shoulder told me so.
If people don't think there's something wrong with you, there's something wrong with you.
Oh well. Another day, another dementia.

wonkyth
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 15
Registered: 06-18-2007
IP: Logged

Radiant wrote:
I suppose that in a puzzle game, physics are not all they're cracked up to be.

What about Portal???

____________________________
"Satire denounces the world;
Wit penetrates it;
Humour accepts it;
But Nonsense Transforms it"
- Cedric Whitman
w.r.t. Aristophanes

JoolsC
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 15
Registered: 01-18-2006
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I have read all the posts on this topic but in my version no matter how many times I stand to the top right of the square and run down, down, right only one boulder falls and I am stuck. this is really annoying me as I can only get so far on all of the different levels of subterra1 before I become completely stuck and as far as I can tell this time its not even my fault. Help please someone.

Celtic Minstrel
Level: Roachling
Rank Points: 12
Registered: 09-06-2008
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I have no idea what this level is like, but if only one boulder is falling instead of three maybe you need to run down further than you're currently doing?

The Mystic
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 18
Registered: 09-20-2006
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JoolsC wrote:
I have read all the posts on this topic but in my version no matter how many times I stand to the top right of the square and run down, down, right only one boulder falls and I am stuck. this is really annoying me as I can only get so far on all of the different levels of subterra1 before I become completely stuck and as far as I can tell this time its not even my fault. Help please someone.

I'm assuming you're talking about either "Vice" or "Versa," both of which are mentioned above. The "down, down, right" motion does work; it relies a little bit on a slight quirk in the game's physics. For a tip on doing it successfully, I quote myself from above:

The Mystic wrote:
the trick is to do it in one quick motion.

And don't stop moving until you've completed the motion, otherwise it won't work. I would also like to add that it requires a bit of practice and patience, so don't get discouraged. Having solved SubTerra's entire Supaplex set, I know firsthand how frustrating some of the levels can be.

____________________________
Either I'm crazy, or everybody else is nuts. And I know I'm not crazy because the little man who lives on my shoulder told me so.
If people don't think there's something wrong with you, there's something wrong with you.
Oh well. Another day, another dementia.

---

[Last edited by The Mystic at 07-19-2009 02:05 AM]

JoolsC
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 15
Registered: 01-18-2006
IP: Logged

Thanks for the encouragement. I was talking about vice, and I have now successfully passed those boulders only to be stuck once again at the bottom left corner and again I can see no way of getting the 2 crystals stuck in the corner. I also did the original dos supaplex many years ago but its not helping much on this one. Either I have a very bad memory or there are slight changes which make this version much harder. I would appreciate any hints for the corner. Are there any demos or step by step hints available for supaplex or the other subterra levels?

Celtic Minstrel
Level: Roachling
Rank Points: 12
Registered: 09-06-2008
IP: Logged

I think there is a cheat code to play the solution, but I don't know what it is. (Apparently you find it in one of the secret levels in the main levelset.)

Danjen02
Level: Roachling

Rank Points: 11
Registered: 11-08-2007
IP: Logged

I believe you can find that cheat code in the level "Sliding Puzzle" which is unlocked by finding the secret exit in the level




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The Mystic
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 18
Registered: 09-20-2006
IP: Logged

JoolsC wrote:
I was talking about vice, and I have now successfully passed those boulders only to be stuck once again at the bottom left corner and again I can see no way of getting the 2 crystals stuck in the corner.

Before you remove any dirt from the rocks surrounding the gems, move any rocks out of the immediate vicinity. Also, when removing the dirt under the rock to release the gems, don't walk to remove it; instead, press Shift and the direction you want to go. This should remove the dirt, causing the rock above to fall down and release the gems.

I also did the original dos supaplex many years ago but its not helping much on this one. Either I have a very bad memory or there are slight changes which make this version much harder.

It's probably due to differences in the physics engines used in subterra and supaplex, though I couldn't tell you because I've never played the original supaplex.

____________________________
Either I'm crazy, or everybody else is nuts. And I know I'm not crazy because the little man who lives on my shoulder told me so.
If people don't think there's something wrong with you, there's something wrong with you.
Oh well. Another day, another dementia.

Radiant
Level: Moderator

Rank Points: 142
Registered: 02-05-2003
IP: Logged

The Mystic wrote:
It's probably due to differences in the physics engines used in subterra and supaplex,

Precisely.

One of my original design goals was to emulate all boulderoid physics engines I could find. I quickly discarded this as wildly unviable.

____________________________
= Radiant =