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Kevin
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icon Re: Eleventh Hour Competition. (+3)  
Here are the victory demos. That was fun! Did I win?
03-06-2004 at 08:47 PM
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agaricus5
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icon Re: Eleventh Hour Competition. (+1)  
Oh, well.

I'm second.

Grrr...

Well, here are my demos anyway.

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03-06-2004 at 08:51 PM
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Schik
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icon Re: Eleventh Hour Competition. (0)  
Kevin wrote:
Here are the victory demos. That was fun! Did I win?
I have downloaded and watched all of your demos, and they look good to me. I'll let Erik give the official word, but I'm pretty sure you won.

Great job to you and agaricus5 for completing it so quickly - I'm impressed.


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03-06-2004 at 09:03 PM
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Drizzo
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Wow... amazing the difference knowing exactly when to back up makes... Just watched the demo for the first room and tried to figure out what clued Kev off to retreat, I assume it was when the columns split around you... makes the room pretty darn easy, I just trashed it in seconds with a slight modification of my tactics.... I imagine this knowledge will help me out immensely later... I was making good time throught the rest of the hold after I skipped the 1st room... not that time though... damn...

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03-06-2004 at 09:14 PM
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agaricus5
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icon Re: Eleventh Hour Competition. (+2)  
Some playtester comments:

General:

Quite a difficult hold with many interesting and varied ideas put together in interesting ways.

Entrance:

The quirk for this was a little unfair in a way.

Click here to view the secret text


This took me at least 30 minutes to get just right.

1W:

It was quite an interesting room, especially...

Click here to view the secret text


1S 1W:

This was nice because...

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1S 2W:

I certainly did learn my lesson in this one...

Click here to view the secret text


2S 1W:

This was quite easy for me, but I suppose what was hard was...

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2S:

This too was interesting.

Click here to view the secret text


2S 1E:

I think this was one of the easiest rooms in the level, minus 1S, but getting the queen was a bit tricky to begin with.

1S 1E:

This was fun.

Click here to view the secret text


1E:

This had me quite upset for 10 minutes when I just couldn't...

Click here to view the secret text


1N 1E:

I enjoyed this (I like mazes), although...

Click here to view the secret text


So, that's what I think. Apologies if I've disclosed too much information for future viewers:

If you think there are too many spoilers, then please tell me, and I'll remove this.

[Edited by agaricus5 on 03-06-2004 at 09:18 PM GMT]

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03-06-2004 at 09:17 PM
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jdyer
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icon Re: Eleventh Hour Competition. (0)  
*sigh* 6 rooms done, and my brains feel blasted. Guess I can give up on this, now. Good job, both of you.
03-06-2004 at 10:12 PM
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The_Red_Hawk
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icon Re: Eleventh Hour Competition. (0)  
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Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....
03-06-2004 at 10:21 PM
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jdyer
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icon Re: Eleventh Hour Competition. (0)  
Red Hawk, it's even easier than that:

Click here to view the secret text

03-06-2004 at 10:25 PM
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swann_88
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icon Re: Eleventh Hour Competition. (0)  
even easier
Click here to view the secret text

03-06-2004 at 11:05 PM
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Drizzo
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icon Re: Eleventh Hour Competition. (+1)  
Easier still,
Click here to view the secret text
maybe I just got lucky, but I found this the 2nd easiest stage... after 1w... but not nearly as cool... now if Agaricus' solution were necessary, then it would be as cool, and crazy hard... as it is, there's definitely some triviality...
As for 1s2w, don't really know what the scroll was about, 'cept the very end part... I'm always a sucker for things like that... *sigh* ... 1s1e was very interesting... never seen anything like it, but not a board I'd like to do again
2s was one of them nice minimalist boards...
Click here to view the secret text


1s1w is usually my least favorite kind of board, but something about this one made it quite fun... kudos to that, Claythro, I don't know how you did it.
1n1e was a magnificent deja vu.
1e, wow, Agaricus summed up my sentiments, only I took longer, but way cool
And as I've said, the entrance was too hard, but I learned how to fight better as a result...
Overall I give the hold a 8.5 because it was actually playable and not overly sadistic yet still very challenging, but not nearly as pretty as Claythro's Tower =(... the first user made hold I've beaten... well, the first of any real size

[Edited by Drizzo on 03-07-2004 at 12:23 AM GMT: and the secret word is Mayhem]

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03-07-2004 at 12:21 AM
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ClaytonW
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icon Re: Eleventh Hour Competition. (+1)  
Hey! Congratulations, Kevin! I've had a look at your demos, and, while a few of them differed from my intended solutions, they still work, and that's what matters. Everything seems legitimate, and Erik's busy, so I'll go ahead and proclaim you the winner.

Erik will get in contact with you soon regarding your prize.

Congratulations again! :thumbsup
03-07-2004 at 03:06 AM
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Kevin
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icon Re: Eleventh Hour Competition. (+1)  
Thanks!

I really enjoyed playing your hold. The rooms were very fun and challenging. I think I got lucky on the first room, though. After several tries, I just happenned to find the right square where I could stand for a while without backing up, and after a few more tries I figured out what to do from there.

I found 2S1W and 2S1E kind of easy, but the other rooms were challenging.
I'm kind of embarrassed about my demo for 1S1E.
Click here to view the secret text


1S1W and 1S2W were probably the hardest for me. In 1S2W,
Click here to view the secret text


1W, 1E, and 2S were all fun and not overly difficult.

Congratulations to Agaricus also. Eight minutes difference isn't very much.
03-07-2004 at 06:11 AM
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ErikH2000
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icon Re: Eleventh Hour Competition. (0)  
ClaytonW wrote:
Hey! Congratulations, Kevin!

Congratulations, indeed! Kevin, you are the champion--be proud, yet carry yourself with modest dignity. Please send me an e-mail (erikh at caravelgames dot com) and let me know what item you would like from the store and where I can ship it to.

-Erik

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03-08-2004 at 06:23 PM
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jdyer
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icon Re: Eleventh Hour Competition. (+1)  
All right, my brain is now recovered.

I don't have anything to add to the general comments, but I should mention I don't think the entrance and 1S1E were appropriate for a contest hold. Note I think they were fine for a regular hold, but in the context of the contest:

Entrance: the roach needed movement here was, as pointed out, a little unfair, and I think a great many people gave up on the contest because of this room. There would have been more general competition with a different room, I think. (Note I don't mean an easier room, necessarily, although that could help, but one that relies more on a specific puzzle well within the paramaters of what people expect from DROD movements.)

1S1E: The snake movement required here was too arbitrary and in practice required some random luck -- hence, by sheer random chance, one person might take 3 minutes and another might take 30, yet the difference in time doesn't necessarily reflect on their skill at DROD.

Anyhow, overall the hold was very fine, and I shall daresay better than Claythro Tower because it was consistency good -- every room was interesting (admittedly expected because it was small rather than large, but I also think our expert hold writer has learned a few things from experience).
03-08-2004 at 07:01 PM
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Schik
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icon Re: Eleventh Hour Competition. (+1)  
jdyer wrote:
I don't think the entrance and 1S1E were appropriate for a contest hold.
I agree for the entrance, but..
1S1E: The snake movement required here was too arbitrary and in practice required some random luck -- hence, by sheer random chance, one person might take 3 minutes and another might take 30, yet the difference in time doesn't necessarily reflect on their skill at DROD.
I disagree with your assessment of 1S1E. For 1S1E, a player needs to realize these things:
- There's an invisibility potion.
- If the serpents' heads are in the center of the closed yellow doors, they will sense Beethro when he tries to hit the orb, thus moving off of the door
- A serpent need only have it's head in the center edge of a door when it opens in order to assure it's death.

When I playtested, I first tried to get all of the heads in the center of the doors at the same time. That was my mistake. After I realized I didn't need to do that, it was very easy. For me, the hard part was realizing what to do, not doing it.

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03-08-2004 at 07:17 PM
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joker5
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icon Re: Eleventh Hour Competition. (0)  
DANG! I've completed the hold, but I didn't save victory demos 'cause I forgot to mark the checkbox that saves said demos. I know the word though... darn. Just my luck.

~joker5

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03-08-2004 at 07:50 PM
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Schik
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joker5 wrote:
DANG! I've completed the hold, but I didn't save victory demos 'cause I forgot to mark the checkbox that saves said demos. I know the word though... darn. Just my luck.
It's okay. You're a wee bit late to win anyways.

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03-08-2004 at 07:51 PM
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ClaytonW
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icon Re: Eleventh Hour Competition. (0)  
I also think our expert hold writer has learned a few things from experience.

This is true. I quit making Claythro Tower because I was running out of ideas, but I think the hiatus helped me when I started working on the Contest Hold. Of course, there aren't any groundbreaking rooms in there (except possibly 1S1E), but it got my creative juices flowing again. Thanks for comments.

Oh, and I don't think I'd go as far at to call me an expert hold writer... What does that mean, anyway, that mines the largest, or best rated? I don't think that means I'm the expert. =P
03-08-2004 at 08:19 PM
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ErikH2000
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ClaytonW wrote:
I don't think that means I'm the expert. =P
Maybe not the expert, but certainly an expert.

-Erik

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03-08-2004 at 09:29 PM
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DiMono
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icon Re: Eleventh Hour Competition. (0)  
I think this is one of those things that those of us who've made holds can really appreciate. The more you design, the better you get at it, and it always shows in the next hold, and the one after that. That's the one thing I've noticed is consistent through every hold I've played; the architect's first hold isn't as good as their second, which isn't as good as their third, etc.

I can also appreciate the time and energy that must have been required to come up with the puzzles in the contest hold, having been through the process three times myself now, and I think Clayton definitely deserves a well-earned hand for his efforts.:Notworthy :Notworthy I just hope any future contests occur at a time when I can participate :)

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03-09-2004 at 01:37 AM
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jdyer
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icon Re: Eleventh Hour Competition. (+1)  
Schik wrote:
When I playtested, I first tried to get all of the heads in the center of the doors at the same time. That was my mistake. After I realized I didn't need to do that, it was very easy. For me, the hard part was realizing what to do, not doing it.

Ah. That's much easier.

So, it doesn't apply to that room, but for the future it's still a good general rule that if there's any randomness involved that might cause two people of the same skill to finish in 2 minutes and 15 minutes it should probably stay out of a contest.
03-09-2004 at 04:15 AM
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The_Red_Hawk
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icon Re: Eleventh Hour Competition. (+1)  
I'd just like to say, well done, Clayton! This hold is great! Now that I have no more time pressure, I've been able to finish at my leisure, and it's obviously well thought out.

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Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....
03-09-2004 at 05:28 PM
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DiMono
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icon Re: Eleventh Hour Competition. (0)  
Drizzo wrote:
Easier still,
Click here to view the secret text
It's even easier than that:
Click here to view the secret text


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03-09-2004 at 07:02 PM
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RubellaGolda
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icon Re: Eleventh Hour Competition. (0)  
Yay, I finished it...

Of course, way too late for the contest, but I'm so excited that I still want to :w00t my appreciation to the designer: :thumbsup

I'm glad I restrained myself from looking at the victory demos,
Click here to view the secret text


This hold was very much fun. Thanks.
03-11-2004 at 09:04 AM
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DiMono
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icon Re: Eleventh Hour Competition. (-1)  
Well, I finally got around to playing the hold through properly, and it was very fun. Had I figured out the entrance sooner, the entire hold would have taken me... ready for this? One hour. Sucks to be me.

Anyway, my whining aside, Clayton: could you post up victory demos for your intended solutions, since you said those used for the contest win weren't all your intended solutions?

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03-17-2004 at 03:40 PM
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Drizzo
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icon Re: Eleventh Hour Competition. (0)  
I would be interested in seeing those demos as well, and also in seeing this hold make its way to the hold forum, for those who may have ignored the contest, such that they can enjoy an interesting hold as well, perhaps with an edited intro, ending and name.

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03-17-2004 at 04:50 PM
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ClaytonW
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File: Clay is da winnah.zip (12.7 KB)
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icon Re: Eleventh Hour Competition. (0)  
Attached are my own demos for The Contest Hold.

Please note the following:
1. My original Entrance demo was much more graceful and didn't involve me trailing 4 roaches along at the end. I had to re-record this demo, as it mysteriously vanished along with the other demos I had for this room.
2. I will upload The Contest Hold to the Holds board as soon as I can fix 1W and 2S2W. These are the rooms where solutions vary, and I'd like to enforce my method. I can't really think right now because of a horrendous ear infection (nobody told me these things were so bloody painful!!), so if anybody has a bright idea on how I can fix it, lemme know.

Good night.
03-19-2004 at 05:15 AM
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eytanz
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ClaytonW wrote:

2. I will upload The Contest Hold to the Holds board as soon as I can fix 1W and 2S2W. These are the rooms where solutions vary, and I'd like to enforce my method. I can't really think right now because of a horrendous ear infection (nobody told me these things were so bloody painful!!), so if anybody has a bright idea on how I can fix it, lemme know.

Good night.

I'd suggest, for historical reasons, to leave these rooms as they are in this hold - fix them and use the corrected versions in your next hold :)

Personally, if I'd find a new game and discover it had a contest level, I'd like to download it in the state it was in in the contest.

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03-19-2004 at 05:36 AM
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DiMono
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File: CH Contest Level 1W Victory.demo (1000 bytes)
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icon Re: Eleventh Hour Competition. (0)  
Wow, that's a method I hadn't seen before for solving 1W. I guess you really weren't expecting it to be solved in 200 moves...

Edit: I also think the hold should be left as is, for posterity's sake. Although I'm curious about 2S2W...

[Edited by DiMono on 03-19-2004 at 06:44 AM GMT]

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03-19-2004 at 06:41 AM
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ClaytonW
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Alright, alright! As soon as my arm untwists to its natural position, I'll post it, unchanged, to the holds board. :)
03-19-2004 at 07:04 PM
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