joker5
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Eyes that move like goblins or wraithwings, not roaches, when awakened.

Wraithwing eyes: Look a little "fuzzy", with the white part changed to black.

Goblin eyes: Look "lumpy", with the white part changed to green.

This would force the user to consider new strategies when dealing with these critters.

~joker5


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DiMono
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This seems like a monster for monster's sake, and I don't like it. There's not really anything original or unique in these monsters.

[Edited by DiMono on 02-16-2004 at 08:47 PM GMT]

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joker5
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They aren't completely original, true. That doesn't mean they're absolutely horrible. These could be used in puzzles where Beethro needs "smarter" evil eyes, in the sense that they dodge his sword/avoid him.

~joker5

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The_Red_Hawk
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How about an evil eye that runs *away* when awakened?

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Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
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Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

joker5
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There really isn't a great application to that besides "dodge the eyeball's lookage or they'll run behind force arrows"... but ok. It would look more shiny, and the white would be solid silver instead. It would move like a queen.

~joker5

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Aris Katsaris
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I don't very much like ideas that look solely like the combination of two other monsters. When awake this eye is nothing but a goblin (or a wraithwing). But I think that goblin logic should be limited to goblins, and wraithwing logic be limited to wraithwings... (same way that I think that brained logic should be limited to rooms with brains in them). I think that their movement behaviour is what makes goblins or wraithwings (or brains) unique, and to offer their behaviour to other critters is to diminish their own worth...

As a sidenote, both of these suggestions of yours could, I think, be emulated if my own earlier suggestion, the "changeling", was implemented -- in that case, a changeling-as-sleeping-eye could transform at awakening into changeling-as-goblin or changeling-as-wraithwing, if true goblin and wraithwing monsters existed around.

joker5
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Yeah, but then it would shift between forms...

~joker5

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The_Red_Hawk
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Hmmm...I liked the changeling idea. How about a monster that can become a brain?

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

joker5
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Hmm... that could work!

BrainEye: Looks like a regular eye, except slightly "lumpy", and the white part is pink. When it sees Beethro, it becomes MUCH more lumpy, and it turns an angry red. It doesn't move, but it behaves like a brain.

~joker5

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Aris Katsaris
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Gah!

Just no.

:

The_Red_Hawk
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I'll say it another way, hopefully better, on a different thread.

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Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

Sokko
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WHOAH there! That's got some pretty sweet potential! The brain/eye thing, I mean. Something that activates brain-like behavior when you come into its viewing range seems like it would have a lot of puzzly applications. Of course, that's just my opinion.

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joker5
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Thankee. Now that I think about it the other eyes really aren't that good. We don't really need alternate strategies; it's really just poinless. So I'm scrapping them.

The brain eyes stay, though.

~joker5

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RoboBob3000
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Maybe instead of alternate eyes, we could have sleeping creatures who wake up when Beethro steps near them. Not the same thing exactly, but it removes the need for many more creatures by just adding a potential trait to old ones.

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masonjason
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I don't think creating new monsters just by adding traits to old ones is a good idea - it doesn't create enough variety. And RoboBob, the "nearness" sort of thing you're talking about is already partially implemented with invisibility potions.

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joker5
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Yes, but that's "radius" style. Here' we're talking more along the lines of "tripwires", like a nifty security system. After all, with the Brain Eyes(Dark eyes of the mind?) if Beethro crosses a certain line without being invisible... it's suddenly much easier for monsters to both get him and get TO him.

And masonjason? What do you mean by "doesn't create enough variety"? I can think of several applications of 'modified' critters. An old suggestion(made by me) was Bubbly Tar, which made wraithwing-style babies instead of the normal roach-style ones. That seemed OK.

~joker5

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masonjason
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It just doesn't seem like enough of a change to me. I mean, take your bubbly tar as an example. It's slightly easier to deal with than tar, because of wraithwings' cowardly nature, but it creates few new puzzle opportunities. You could probably replace almost all the tar in KDD with bubbly tar and get nothing but a reduction in difficulty - it might not even break any rooms.
Carry on coming up with these ideas, though. I think the brain eyes are great.

[Edited by masonjason on 02-18-2004 at 12:24 AM GMT]

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Oneiromancer
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I don't think it would ever actually get implemented, but an "Eye Brain" might not be too bad of an idea. I could see it working two ways:

1. When the Eye Brain sees Beethro, all monsters become brained and stay that way for as long as the Eye Brain is alive (i.e., once it becomes aware of Beethro's presence, it's simply a brain for all intents and purposes).

2. Monsters are brained only so long as Beethro can be seen by an Eye Brain.

#2 works well only if there are a large group of Eye Brains. Otherwise, there would be mass confusion at the seeming "randomness" of monsters being brained/unbrained as Beethro moves around the room. However, #1 is more in keeping with the DROD "style", I think. You can have a room with several areas: for example, the first area is unbrained, the second area is brained because an Eye Brain sees you, once you kill it the next area is unbrained again, etc. Rooms this complex can be annoying, though, so I'm not necessarily in favor of this. However, there could be utility in designing rooms where you have to decide whether it's better to have the monsters be brained or not.

Game on,

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The_Red_Hawk
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What about the "Brain Bug"? Automatic transitions is another option.

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

joker5
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Yeah, but that's good for 2 things:

A: Timers(Roach runs one way some turns, waits, runs other way some turns
B: "hold-ground-advance-hold-ground-advance" periods for Beethro

This is more of a security system/alarm.

~joker5

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Criminals, like other people, dislike being shot. ~FBI study on guns

www.badgerbadgerbadger.com

"Two words: Beam Waffle!" -me

The_Red_Hawk
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Then why not have a tile that activates brains?

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

zex20913
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Perhaps a tile that deactivates brains would be more appropriate.

I think I like the eye brain idea. Yes, I do.

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Mattcrampy
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The_Red_Hawk wrote:
Then why not have a tile that activates brains?

That's given me the most evil idea - now to see if it works.

Matt

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joker5
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Meh... that's an evil tease. That really is. Now I'm all curious as to what you're doing over there.

~joker5

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The_Red_Hawk
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Like you weren't before?

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Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

joker5
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No, then my interest was sort of crusted-over with a little cognitive dissonance(I forgot on purpose). Now it's re-awakened...

THE CURIOSITY WILL RIDE AGAIN!

Mwahaahha!

~joker5

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Criminals, like other people, dislike being shot. ~FBI study on guns

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Mattcrampy
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No, it didn't work. Shame.

Matt

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