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Pekka
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icon Find the Rule (+2)  
I'm going to run a little game where you have to discover a rule that assigns a corresponding number to any word. The rule itself is quite simple to state and does not relate to the real world meaning of the word. In fact, I can score any sequence of letters with it, so I am going to stick to English words just for convenience's sake.

The fun part is that if you find the rule, you can show off your knowledge without revealing the rule to others. And as it happens, I have a few rating points in store for people who are the first to guess the rule. It is pretty convincing evidence that you know the rule if you can score several words properly when asked.

If you can't figure out the rule yet, you can ask me in this thread for the number associated with any given word. However, I won't reveal any more descriptions of the rule itself even if you ask. The only way to get more information is to ask about specific words. You are encouraged to form hypotheses and test them.

I'll have to add that the rule doesn't require you to know anything about, say, chemistry, higher mathematics or any other special field. Since it is about numbers, you do need to be able to count, and about letters, you need to be able to read. There is, however, a little bit of trickery involved.

WARNING: You may find the rule rather disappointing or unfair once you discover it. If you do think so, you are invited to invent a better one and run a similar game of your own!

To be specific, a word in this game consists of any continuous sequence of the letters a-z and A-Z, plus hyphens and apostrophes. A space cannot appear in a word. Two similar words may be scored differently if they differ from each other even a little, but on the other hand two totally different words may be scored the same.

I'll start with some familiar words:

Aumtlich gives a score of 1.
Beethro gives a score of 4.
DROD gives a score of 4.
Hold gives a score of 1.
Mimic gives a score of 0.
Roach gives a score of 3.
Sword gives a score of 1.
Tar gives a score of 1.

Now you can simply reply and say how you think any word should be scored. I will correct you if you get any of them wrong. And you can just ask about words that haven't appeared yet. Just make sure you show clearly what the word you actually want to score is. I'll always put the word in italics tags myself.

07-24-2008 at 12:26 PM
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silver
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icon Re: Find the Rule (0)  
I believe that...
Erik scores 0, as does Schik
mrimer, on the other hand, scores 1, because he rules

further, I believe that
Slayer scores 2
Queen scores 3
wraithwing scores 2
gel scores 1
and mud scores 0 (thus demonstrating it's inferiority to tar and gel)

and, finally, that
silver scores 1


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[Last edited by silver at 07-24-2008 02:55 PM]
07-24-2008 at 02:46 PM
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Pekka
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icon Re: Find the Rule (0)  
quote:
silver wrote:
Erik scores 0, as does Schik
mrimer, on the other hand, scores 1, because he rules



These are correct. This game does now, however, take into account how much Mr. Imer rules, but it does indeed acknowledge the fact that he does.

quote:
silver wrote:
Slayer scores 2
Queen scores 3
wraithwing scores 2
gel scores 1
and mud scores 0



I'm afraid these are not all correct.
Slayer scores 1
Queen scores 2
mud scores 1

However, there is a slight problem with the letter g. In scoring words with it I have to sometimes assume something that may not necessarily be true for everyone.

Given this assumption
wraithwing scores 2
gel scores 3

(I'll have to be careful with this letter when I give more scores. Fortunately, most letters are rather more well-behaved.)

quote:
silver wrote:
and, finally, that
silver scores 1



This is true.
07-24-2008 at 03:34 PM
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silver
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icon Re: Find the Rule (0)  
Huh. Based on Queen and Beethro, I'm guessing you score both Bee and Be the same - three (three itself scores 1).

Under my initial understanding of the rule, Queen=3, Beethro=5, Bee=4, Be=3, but then I took the given Beethro=4 as evidence that Be=2, rather than finding your different exception. Now I'm curious about the scoring of the word different - 2 or 1?

I admit to erring with mud, based on my understanding of the rule, I should have scored it 1, also.

The only point of confusion I have is that Roach=3 seems to contradict Slayer=1. Seems we perhaps have another issue with a much like we do with g?


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07-25-2008 at 02:01 AM
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Pekka
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icon Re: Find the Rule (0)  
quote:
silver wrote:
Huh. Based on Queen and Beethro, I'm guessing you score both Bee and Be the same - three (three itself scores 1).



I'll have to correct you on two counts.

Bee gives 4.
Be gives 3
three gives 2.

quote:
silver wrote:
Under my initial understanding of the rule, Queen=3, Beethro=5, Bee=4, Be=3, but then I took the given Beethro=4 as evidence that Be=2, rather than finding your different exception. Now I'm curious about the scoring of the word different - 2 or 1?



different results in 1.

quote:
silver wrote:
I admit to erring with mud, based on my understanding of the rule, I should have scored it 1, also.

The only point of confusion I have is that Roach=3 seems to contradict Slayer=1. Seems we perhaps have another issue with a much like we do with g?



There is no issue with a. If any one letter is to blame, it is the first one in Roach. (You could also blame the guy who came up with this silly way of scoring words, but I couldn't possibly comment on that.)

P.S. As long as there are replies to reply to, I promise to write at least one response per day unless I can't access the net at all (that shouldn't happen). Please bear in mind my location in the EET time zone if you wonder at the hours I keep :)
07-25-2008 at 11:45 AM
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silver
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icon Re: Find the Rule (0)  
hrm. uh.
so, er,
how do you score these words:

be, BE, and bE
?


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[Last edited by silver at 07-25-2008 01:20 PM]
07-25-2008 at 01:14 PM
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Pekka
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icon Re: Find the Rule (0)  
quote:
silver wrote:
hrm. uh.
so, er,
how do you score these words:

be, BE, and bE
?



They score 2, 2 and 1, in the same order.
07-26-2008 at 12:00 PM
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Doom
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icon Re: Find the Rule (+1)  
I'm going to guess that

Pekka scores a respectable 2 but Doom ranks higher with a score of 3

Halph gets only 1 point but Neather is worth 2

Frogs at 3 points win the battle against Mice who only get 1
07-27-2008 at 11:59 AM
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Pekka
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icon Re: Find the Rule (0)  
Doom is correct on all counts. I will hereby gift him with one rating point, because he appears to have shown some care in choosing his examples.
07-27-2008 at 06:34 PM
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silver
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icon Re: Find the Rule (0)  
I think Doom knows the rule, he gave me a hint which led me to figure out a rule which fits all the cases seen, including Doom's new words. (and, say, how Appearance would score 5, but AppeaRance would score 7). I suspect that makes it his turn or something.


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07-28-2008 at 07:27 AM
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Pekka
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icon Re: Find the Rule (0)  
I think I could post a few more challenge words and let anyone who wants try to score a few of them. I'll put up enough so more than one person can get their rating point, if they want (and can). I'm sure silver will then get his. After that I can also reveal my rule. (Those two words in silver's post are correctly scored.)

I'll do that during this week, and after I check the results I will be happy to let someone else run a game like this if they want. And I believe it would be only right to give Doom the option to be the next rulemaster, if he wants to. That is of course if you guys think the game is exciting enough to play further :)

07-28-2008 at 04:58 PM
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Pekka
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icon Re: Find the Rule (+1)  
All right, to wind up this little game, I will put up some words you can try to solve if you want. You'll get one upmod from me provided you answer exactly three of these correctly. You must pick three, not more, not fewer and give the score for each. (Also, you can't use words that someone else has scored already.)

Here are the words.

acknowledgement
agricultural
bagpipes
bootstrapping
hobgoblin
irredeemable
obligatory
postmastered
serpents
slithering
staggering
thunderstruck
uncompromised
unspeakable
xylophone


After this has been available for a few days, I will post the rule I used in a spoiler tag, after which I won't be giving out any more rank points. I hope that is OK with everyone.

If someone can turn this game into a more fun variant, go ahead and do so. My go at this didn't seem to attract a lot of attention, but I'm happy if it amused someone :)
07-30-2008 at 10:28 AM
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silver
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icon Re: Find the Rule (+1)  
bootstrapping 3 (two ways)
hobgoblin 6
irredeemable 4


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07-30-2008 at 10:31 AM
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RoboBob3000
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icon Re: Find the Rule (+1)  
uncompromised - 2
unspeakable - 3
xylophone - 2

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07-30-2008 at 04:02 PM
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Pekka
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icon Re: Find the Rule (0)  
I removed the words that were scored above. Since the scores were correct, I awarded the promised upmods. These are now left.

acknowledgement
agricultural
bagpipes
obligatory
postmastered
serpents
slithering
staggering
thunderstruck


If there's a sudden later surge of interest and a lot of tries, I can post more words. Bu tI think it looks like I can wind this up early on Saturday.
07-31-2008 at 04:59 PM
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Pekka
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icon Re: Find the Rule (+2)  
I used a rule that says
Click here to view the secret text

08-02-2008 at 08:06 AM
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Chaco
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icon Re: Find the Rule (0)  
That's a pretty interesting rule that I failed to guess on my own time, Pekka. :)

I'd like to step up and volunteer to do the next round; I have a rule that I think is interesting that ended up not being used in this round.

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Click here to view the secret text

08-02-2008 at 12:05 PM
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Pekka
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icon Re: Find the Rule (0)  
Well, I suggested that Doom would have the first choice to be the next rulemaster, if he likes, and so we might ask him before going ahead with Chaco's turn. I think you, Chaco, could ask him via PM, if that's OK.

Of course, I don't really see a problem with running several of these at the same time. It'll be easier to handle if the differetn games use their own discussion threads, and we don't start too many at the same time.

So, I'm in favor of Chaco being the next rulemaster :)

(or maybe a rulekeeper? rule-withholder-who-smirks-evilly? make your own title!)
08-02-2008 at 02:01 PM
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Doom
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Sure, go ahead Chaco. I don't have anything special in mind at the moment.
08-02-2008 at 03:45 PM
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Chaco
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I'll start with some other familiar words. This rule will probably be a bit easier to guess than Pekka's.

Rule #2

Architect gives a score of 3.
About gives a score of -1. (Yes, that's negative one.)
Builder gives a score of 1.
Chaco gives a score of 1.
Doom gives a score of 0.
Decoy gives a score of 1.
Exploding gives a score of 3.
Invisible gives a score of 1.
Smitemaster gives a score of 3.
Solution gives a score of 0.
Trapdoor gives a score of 2.

As before, feel free to reply with any words you want me to score, or try to score some words of your own.

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08-02-2008 at 04:06 PM
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Dolan42
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icon Re: Find the Rule (+1)  
I think that:
brain = 1
seep = 0
evil eye = -1
Wraithwings = 5

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08-02-2008 at 07:43 PM
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Chaco
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All four of Dolan42's words are correct. I strongly suspect this means he knows the rule.

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[Last edited by Chaco at 08-02-2008 07:51 PM]
08-02-2008 at 07:50 PM
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Tahnan
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icon Re: Find the Rule (+1)  
Oooh, I'm more valuable than Chaco, since Tahnan = 2 but Chaco = 1! (Of course, Halph = 3...)

I think the most valuable thing in the game is the waterskipper nest, worth an impressive 6?
08-02-2008 at 08:12 PM
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Chaco
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All of Tahnan's words are correct. I'm going to give both Dolan and Tahnan one point, and give some more words here:

appearance (Score is 0, given by Doom)
compromise (Score is 2, given by Doom)
frustration (Score is 3, given by Doom)
maintain (Score is 0, given by silver)
performing (Score is 4, given by silver)
reinforce (Score is 1, given by silver)
stabilize
vengeance

As before, a post with three of these words correct gets 1 point.

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[Last edited by Chaco at 08-02-2008 11:17 PM]
08-02-2008 at 08:17 PM
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Doom
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icon Re: Find the Rule (+1)  
A-ha.'

appearance = 0
compromise = 2
frustration = 3
08-02-2008 at 09:36 PM
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silver
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icon Re: Find the Rule (+1)  
maintain 0
performing 4
reinforce 1


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08-02-2008 at 10:04 PM
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Chaco
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icon Re: Find the Rule (+1)  
Alright, this rule has clearly been defeated. Doom and silver also get points.

Rule #2 is as follows:

Click here to view the secret text


Some remarks on this rule in comparison to rule #1 (contains spoilers for both this rule and #1) :

Click here to view the secret text


It's now someone else's turn to provide a rule #3.

____________________________
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[Last edited by Chaco at 08-02-2008 11:02 PM]
08-02-2008 at 11:01 PM
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Tahnan
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icon Re: Find the Rule (0)  
...kind of sad, really, that "pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis" only rates a 5. (James Joyce's 100-letter "bababadalgharaghtakamminarronnkonnbronntonnerronntuonnthunntrovarrhounawnskawntoohoohoordenenthurnuk" fares much better, but I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader.)
08-02-2008 at 11:03 PM
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silver
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icon Re: Find the Rule (0)  
#3:

$ ./rule.pl Aumtlich Beethro DROD Hold Mimic Roach Sword Tar Smitemaster Pekka Doom Silver Chaco Halph 'evil eye' wraithwing pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis
aumtlich => 3
beethro => 3
drod => 1
hold => 1
mimic => 1
roach => 2
sword => 2
tar => 1
smitemaster => 5
pekka => 1
doom => 1
silver => 3
chaco => 3
halph => 2
evileye => 3
wraithwing => 4
pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis => 20


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[Last edited by silver at 08-03-2008 02:21 AM]
08-03-2008 at 02:18 AM
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Sillyman
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icon Re: Find the Rule (0)  
By the capitalization of the input and output, it seems that it is case insensitive.

Edit: and also that spaces are ignored.

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FNORD

[Last edited by Sillyman at 08-03-2008 05:45 AM]
08-03-2008 at 05:44 AM
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