ErikH2000
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EDIT: 1/23 The contest has concluded! This is what I said at the start of voting.

We have four entries in our mapmaking contest. Vote which one you like best, and try not to take artistic skill into account when voting.

Although it may be obvious in some cases, names of map authors won't be revealed by me until the voting period is over. When will it be over? Uh... let's say by next Friday. If an author wants to step into the light and identify himself, well, that's fine--it's up to him. If you choose to discuss maps here, try not to say which one you like best or other things that might sway voting. Give people a chance to make up their own minds.

If you want a little more context, you might refer back to the original contest announcement and rules. There are some suggestions on how to vote. Clearly, one could apply different standards and arrive to varying conclusions on which map is the best. When in doubt, go with your gut.

Thanks very much to all the participating cartographers!

-Erik

[Edited by ErikH2000 on 01-23-2004 at 06:27 PM GMT]

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ErikH2000
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File: MapOfTheEighth.png (491 KB)
Downloaded 179 times.
License: Other
From: Unspecified

Map #1.

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ErikH2000
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File: Map2.jpg (515.9 KB)
Downloaded 190 times.
License: Other
From: Unspecified

Map #2.

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ErikH2000
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File: eighth.png (109.6 KB)
Downloaded 165 times.
License: Other
From: Unspecified

Map #3.

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ErikH2000
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File: Map4.jpg (514 KB)
Downloaded 192 times.
License: Other
From: Unspecified

Map #4.

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ErikH2000
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Ugh. Don't ask why I did everything I did. Here is the poll a second time. Please revote. Punch down hard on those chads.

-Erik

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Schik
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For a second there I thought I was on slashdot...

(By the way, I favor map #5)



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Mattcrampy
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Errr... I can't get Map #2 (or #4, for that matter) to come up.

Matt

[Edited by Mattcrampy on 01-17-2004 at 06:24 AM GMT]

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ErikH2000
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Mattcrampy wrote:
Errr... I can't get Map #2 (or #4, for that matter) to come up.

All four come up for me without trouble. Using IE6.

-Erik

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Mattcrampy
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Even using IE6. This is rather annoying.

Can someone who can actually see them send them to me or something?

Matt

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mrimer
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Mattcrampy wrote:
Can someone who can actually see them send them to me or something?

Sure. I just emailed them to you.

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Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
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Avon
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Mattcrampy wrote:
Errr... I can't get Map #2 (or #4, for that matter) to come up.

I can't see maps #2 and #4 either. Unless they're supposed to look like broken links, in which case some people are taking artistic licence too far.

____________________________
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Oneiromancer
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2 and 4 are jpgs, while 1 and 3 are png files. It seems like that has something to do with it, although I have no idea why that would be so.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

ErikH2000
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How strange that some people can't see them, and others can. One clue is that map #2 and #4 are in jpg format, instead of png. Also, these two were renamed by me to hide the original name of the author. But I can't see why either of these things would cause problems.

Please, if you had trouble, try this direct link to the same files:

Map 2
Map 4

...and let me know what result you have, please.

-Erik

[Edited by ErikH2000 on 01-17-2004 at 11:17 PM GMT: Correct case-sensitive problem with URLs.]

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Schik
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ErikH2000 wrote:
How strange that some people can't see them, and others can. One clue is that map #2 and #4 are in jpg format, instead of png. Also, these two were renamed by me to hide the original name of the author. But I can't see why either of these things would cause problems.

The attachment database keeps track of the Content-Type string associated with each file, and uses it when getting files (since otherwise some browsers are confused by the .php extension of the URL). I looked at those two attachments, and they were both image/pjpeg instead of image/jpeg - I don't know what the difference is. I changed them to image/jpeg, and they still work for me - do they work for anyone who they didn't work for before?


____________________________
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way it treats its animals.
--Mahatma Gandhi

Avon
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ErikH2000 wrote:
Please, if you had trouble, try this direct link to the same files:
...and let me know what result you have, please.

They work for me.

Schik wrote:
I looked at those two attachments, and they were both image/pjpeg instead of image/jpeg - I don't know what the difference is. I changed them to image/jpeg, and they still work for me - do they work for anyone who they didn't work for before?

I still can't view the attachments. If you like you can read about PJPEG here.

____________________________
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Schik
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Oh duh, progressive. I still don't know why they won't show for some people though. If anybody has any bright ideas, I'll be willing to listen.

____________________________
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way it treats its animals.
--Mahatma Gandhi

DiMono
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I had no difficulty viewing the files under Firebird 0.7. Perhaps there's some sort of ISP issue with those files, like a common provider doesn't like them from the site or something? Anyway, I'm willing to co-host the images on my server if you think that would help, so people could try mine if they can't get to yours.

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Sokko
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I can view all four of them as attachments just fine, without the direct link. Using IE6. Hmm...

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The_Red_Hawk
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What's going to happen if there's a tie for the top number of votes? And is there a second/third prize?

Just curious.

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

ErikH2000
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Hey, nice hawk avatar.

The_Red_Hawk wrote:
What's going to happen if there's a tie for the top number of votes?

Good question. I thought about it and I think we will do this in the event of a tie: Run a second poll between the top two contenders. In the event that there is another tie, I will ask my friend, Todd Downing, who makes roleplaying games for a living, to decide which one he likes best, and that will be the winner.

And is there a second/third prize?

Nope. Winner takes it all and the losers go home with nothing! Nothing, I say!

-Erik

____________________________
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The_Red_Hawk
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ErikH2000 wrote:
Hey, nice hawk avatar.

Thanks!

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

Sokko
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I'm putting this in secret text, since it contains somewhat of an opinion and you should only read it if you're Erik or have already voted. REPEAT: DO NOT READ IF YOU HAVEN'T VOTED! Agh, capslock.



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ErikH2000
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Final vote totals on Friday, January 23rd, 2004:

Map #1. 5 20.83% (RedHawk)
Map #2. 3 12.50% (Oneiromancer)
Map #3. 7 29.17% (Mattcrampy)
Map #4. 9 37.50% (ClaytonW)

Hey, everybody got some votes here. Towards the beginning it looked like anyone might win, and then Clayton started edging ahead. It was a little sad to suppress conversation of the holds right when it would be most interesting to talk about them. A few thoughts of my own:

First off, I abstained from voting, to promote some vague notion of purity. I dunno--I guess I could have voted.

I'm guessing that although I said "Don't vote for the most pretty map," it kind of ended up that way anyhow. Oh well--I'm not bitter. The plainest map of the four, Onei's sketchy map received the least votes. If I voted for a map, I would have voted for this one--map #2. Onei also sent me a detailed description of the map that added more flavor to it, which I decided against posting here because a map should stand on it's own. I may have been biased by that description--it did make the map seem deeper--so probably it is good that I didn't vote. Neil, if you don't mind, could you post that stuff you sent me earlier?

Next, we had Red Hawk's massive, multiscreen map of the Eighth in which he tells a story of what the world will be like after the monsters win. Note that originally Mr. Hawk intended to submit this as a hold, but I insisted it go into image format. In fact, since I was a little desperate for entries I took some time to grab screenshots from the hold and add text to the image that is contained in the scrolls. So in a way, this entry was really a collaboration between Red and I, (hmm. Another good reason to abstain from voting) and if you didn't like tiled screenshot format or some of the text was too hard to read, blame me for that part. Personally, I think it turned out rather well, and I was impressed by the sheer number of location names and events that go with them. I'm hoping Red will post his hold on the Architecture board so that you can see it as he intended.

Our webmaster thought that it wasn't quite fair for him to enter the contest. He's been privy to a few tidbits of extra story information from conversations with me, plus people might consider him STAFF, and contests usually don't allow people associated in some way with the contestholders to enter. Bleah! I needed more entries so I made him draw a map for the contest. I think he feels a little dirty inside now. Looking at his map, I wonder if he chose to put the North end at the bottom because he's Australian. I like the map and one idea I definitely will reuse--the icy middle latitude. It's a natural conclusion based on what "facts" have been defined so far.

Clayton's map is science fictional, with an Arthur C. Clarke feel. No surprise that it would appeal to a lot of people--it's fun to look at. There is another version of it without the slice overlay that he intended as desktop wallpaper, that I think he should post. Right now I am using it as wallpaper, in fact. Congratulations, Clayton! It was a well-deserved victory! After the Master Map is completed there will be a wall poster of the map available at the DROD Store. Clayton, you can pick something from the store now, but you can also wait for the map to be available, if you prefer.

Thanks very much to all who entered, and also to Trick who submitted an entry which was not quite usable but interesting in its own right. I plan to post Trick's work, right after I get done with this message.

-Erik

____________________________
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Oneiromancer
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Yup, that was me with the almost-back-of-the-napkin map...Erik needed more entries, I had a little free time and access to a scanner...so there you go. I didn't expect it to win--I didn't even vote on it myself (I voted for #3, since I was struck by its similarities to mine with the continents and the ice band, and I just don't vote for myself anyway)--but 3 pity votes ain't bad!

So, since Erik really wants me to, here's my description of the various landmarks in my map (#2). Slightly modified from the original e-mail, although only Erik would notice.

This is what I have envisioned for the continents. The Southernmost one, Ephelba, is where most of the population lives. Thus, the map is centered on them, just like in the US many Earth maps are centered on the US even though that cuts Europe/Asia in half. All the kingdoms on the main plain do have their own little mountains, but I couldn't go into that much detail. The names besides Mellenfral are just pulled out of basically nowhere...they certainly don't have any meaning to me. Well, "Opicul" is derived from a Latin word for "stupid", so you can imagine what the inhabitants of that place are like. Anyway, these names are not "set in stone", they're basically just placeholders until something better comes along. The area where Dugandy is located is basically a large plateau between the two main mountain ranges on the continent. The small mountain range in The Great Southern Desert is an unknown location, and is as such not labelled. My hold, Treasure Hunt, basically takes place on the desert side of this mountain range. The final stand of Beethro against the Horde would also be in the desert, just before the mountain pass leading to the civilized (and I use that term loosely) kingdoms. It should be noted that since this continent is where most of the DROD dungeons will likely be located, I was hesistant to detail it too greatly so as to allow people to place their ideas more easily.

The Ruins of the Maker are cryptically named, but besides its bad reputation that is all that is known about it. The ocean is called either Rasalban or Epharus depending on which continent you ask. That serpent in the corner is just flavor art...or is it?!?

The middle continent, Rasarus, is the continent of traders. Which is suitable, because of its cold and bleak landscape. But more practically, Rasarus controls the most effective means of traveling from Ephelba to Akandia, which will be described later. All the city names are derived from Latin words for gold (I like Latin, so sue me). These kingdoms charge hefty prices to guide merchant caravans through the frozen waste of the permanent ice sheet. And of course they do their own trading with the various other kingdoms on both continents. The part of the ice sheet that is not on land is known as the Smuggler's Maze because, obviously, smugglers try to go there to bypass the tariffs of Rasarus. However, taking ice breakers through hundreds of miles of ice is not an easy task. This is compounded by the fact that most of the islands in the archipelago are volcanic, and so the ice is constantly moving and melting. This makes the Maze a deathtrap, but there are still those who attempt to traverse it, and some even succeed.

The Northern ocean is called The Sparkling Ocean, 'cause that's what I came up with. The Great Maelstrom is a huge whirlpool that is not at all cliched, which occurs because of the contrast between the heat of the sun and the cold of the ice sheet. There is no such permanent occurrence in the Rasalban/Epharus ocean because the Eighth is too wide down there.

Akandia is a barren continent, with only one major kingdom (called Acuron, sorry that it's hard to see on the map) on it. But to the people living there, it is nearly paradise. Technology is advanced, as well as magic, and peace is constant. At least, peace within its borders is constant. They are quite xenophobic, only allowing certain approved traders and scholars within the kingdom. Such is the price of peace, but the people living there don't seem to mind.

And of course there's Sun Island, which just Is. If the kingdoms of Rasarus knew that the scholars of Akandia were attempting to develop a way to safely get to the bottom of the Eighth by going past Sun Island, they wouldn't be very happy.

Okay, that was it. See what happens when you get bored at work?

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

The_Red_Hawk
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ErikH2000 wrote:
I'm hoping Red will post his hold on the Architecture board so that you can see it as he intended.

I already have. It was already up there before I entered it. It's Deep Hold Level 17. Keep up with the times!

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

ClaytonW
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File: Claythro Eighth Wallpaper.jpg (437.4 KB)
Downloaded 73 times.
License: Other
From: Unspecified

Uh, thanks, I guess, but please listen:

I didn't expect to win, I didn't try to win, I didn't want to win. I just wanted an excuse to make a pretty picture. Which I did, but I honestly don't think mine is the best map of the four. Coolest-looking? Yeah, probably. Best actual map? Definitely not.

Technically, this is a tie contest. I am a bastard and I voted for myself. (I know, what a jerk) My reason: I didn't expect to get any votes at all. However, If I hadn't voted for myself, I would've voted for #3. I'd have 8 votes, and so would Matt. Tie.

I don't mean to offend the cartographers, but the number of votes increases by the aesthetic quality of the map. (In my opinion).

3 votes: Doodle.
5 votes: Done in editor.
7 votes: Paint?, but well done.
9 votes: Photoshopped.

We were all asked to try not to take artistic talent into consideration while voting, but I think it happened anyway. I made my graphic first, and then spent 3 minutes of my time slapping some so-so names for locations on there. Now listen, I'm not trying to be noble (because I'd just love a DROD cap to go with my T-shirt), but I don't feel right accepting it. But then again, Erik says he's not bitter, so I don't know if I should just let it slide and get my cap. Grumble.....

...Also, attached to this post is my entry without the map stuff on it, for anyone who wants it.

ErikH2000
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ClaytonW wrote:
Uh, thanks, I guess, but please listen:

No, you listen! The people have spoken. Don't contradict the Will of the Electorate!

Take the cap, man.

-Erik

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eytanz
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Congratulations, Clayton!

Now that we're finally allowed to vote, here's my review of the maps, in bulletpoints because I don't have much time:

- I voted for Red_Hawk's map, even though it was the one I found least aesthetically pleasing. It made the biggest effort to incorporate as much stuff into the map, including what could be learnt from user-based holds. I felt that effort was deserving of the award. I didn't like that he basically has the eighth be one huge landmass, but I figure that was unavoidable due to the format.
- My second favourite map was Matt's. It was closest to my mental picture of the eighth. If it were more detailed, I would have voted for it.
- Oneiromancer's map came a close third. The main thing I didn't like about it was that it put something called "Smuggler's maze" in the middle of a permanent ice sheet, which seemed like a weird choice to me.
- Clayton's map, while the most professional looking, was too confusing. I wasn't sure what the significance of the big disk-shaped map in the back was - I still am not. Also, the map only told us what was land and what was water, but didn't differentiate terrain types, which was a real shame. It did, however, have really great place names.

Final point:
- If, in the official map, Erik chooses to use locations described in user's holds, I should point out that The Tomb of Nomb is supposed to be a long-neglected tomb of an ancient kingdom which no longer exists, while Blorn is a, yet thriving, small town in Dugandy or one of the surrounding kingdoms.

____________________________
I got my avatar back! Yay!

Oneiromancer
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eytanz wrote:
- Oneiromancer's map came a close third. The main thing I didn't like about it was that it put something called "Smuggler's maze" in the middle of a permanent ice sheet, which seemed like a weird choice to me.

Although I did explain a bit of this in my e-mail to Erik which I just posted, I do have a point to make in my defense. First, the Arctic Ocean on Earth, around the North Pole, is basically a "permanent" ice cap, yet even at the beginning of the last century I believe ships were able to make it quite close to the Pole through the ice, both through open water and by breaking the ice with whatever ships use to break sheets of ice. Of course, that is a smaller surface area than is presented in my Smuggler's maze. The ice sheet area would probably be a bit smaller over the ocean than over land, because of the inherent heat of the ocean water. Even so, as I say in my above post most of those islands are volcanic, adding a great deal more heat to the water, and thus making that strait a deadly frozen maze.

Anyway, I'm not offended or anything, I just wanted to show that I did put some thought into it.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams