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Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Hints and Solutions : Val Unrich : The First Realm : Entrance (This is a bad sign, stuck on the very first room)
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key-smiter
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icon Val Unrich : The First Realm : Entrance (0)  
And I'm not sure I understand what the gates do . . . for example, I don't get what "set your remaining moves to 50 not add" means, but perhaps enough time spent blundering around this hold will give me the answer.

But the reason why I'm posting here . . . Every sequence of moves I've tried leaves me with at least one set of close-coupled monsters, a fatal alignment. Killing the brains first comes closest to success, but yet so far - is there a communicable trick?
04-03-2008 at 11:59 PM
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The spitemaster
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icon Re: Val Unrich : The First Realm : Entrance (+1)  
Well, on of the tricks is to make sure that you kill the last brain with few monsters left.
Click here to view the secret text


The pylons in the room in the house are just there to demonstrate what the different colors mean on the pylons. They will never work.

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He wasn't there again today
I wish that man would stay away
04-04-2008 at 12:32 AM
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key-smiter
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icon Re: Val Unrich : The First Realm : Entrance (0)  
Thanks . . . although so far doing the loop thing just means I have a string of monsters following me - like goslings after a goose. Unfortunately I have an even worse problem now - now I am in this room as Beethro and cannot kill anything. Do I need to restart the hold? If after fixing this I revert to Beethro several rooms or levels later, do I need to restart from the beginning?

Sigh . . .
04-04-2008 at 02:12 AM
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Rabscuttle
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icon Re: Val Unrich : The First Realm : Entrance (+1)  
When you become Beethro you need to go back to a change station. At first this means the one in your house, but after beating a few rooms you should be able to reach some outside.

All the change stations have checkpoints so if you return to human at a bad point (eg over a pit) you can always restore to the last time you changed into a wraithwing.
04-04-2008 at 02:30 AM
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key-smiter
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icon Re: Val Unrich : The First Realm : Entrance (0)  
OK, that works . . . thanks. I still have questions (like what makes Beethro become Beethro) but since there's no discussion either in this forum or in the hold thread, maybe it will eventually be obvious.

Now. I still have the original problem I posted about. No matter which direction I start in, there is a string of at least two monsters with no separation. For example -

1) If I start by killing the roaches east of the starting point, two of the initially-west roaches follow Beethro with no spaces between them.
2) If I start by killing the roaches south or west, two of the easterly roaches gang up in the same fashion.
3) If I try to account for this by starting the killing one way and then turning my attention the other way, I can get many inseparable monsters following.

How do I avoid this?
04-05-2008 at 01:58 AM
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CuriousShyRabbit
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icon Re: Val Unrich : The First Realm : Entrance (+1)  
The rules of this game are explained in the story. The main character, Val Unrich has been given the special ability to turn into a wraithwing. At the beginning of the story, he is weak, and can only be a wraithwing for short periods of time. When you go through the change station in his house, you'll see the message "you have 99 turns as a wraithwing." Turn off the move counter and watch the upper left hand corner of the screen as you play. It shows the number of turns remaining as a wraithwing. When that number gets down to 0, Val returns to human form.

99 turns as a wraithwing is not very much time. In all puzzles in this hold, you have to be extremely efficient. Within the 99 turn limit, Val can only conquer a few rooms around his house. However, the experience makes him stronger. As Val conquers more rooms, he not only finds new change stations, he also gets more time as a wraithwing for each change. The limit increases to 125 turns, 150 turns, 175 turns, etc, as you go.

In reading your question, it seems that you're forgetting an important aspect of non-Beethro player roles. Remember what you learned in King Dugan's New Dungeon in TCB (which used player role guard). The monsters are asleep until you kill one or you step on a power token. That means you don't have to attack the first one you meet, you can walk right past it. Choosing the correct monster to attack first is the key to this puzzle. Indeed if you wake everyone up by killing a monster in the middle of a room, you may soon be surrounded on all sides. Choose a different monster for your first strike.
04-05-2008 at 04:48 AM
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key-smiter
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icon Re: Val Unrich : The First Realm : Entrance (0)  
First, thanks for the tutorial . . . I paid some attention during the intro but I'd not realized Beethro's wraithwing-conversion was temporary.
CuriousShyRabbit wrote:
Choose a different monster for your first strike.
Sorry I wasn't clear on this; it is obvious that monsters don't come to life until awoken as you've described. I've started with, as far as I can tell, every single monster and still end up at some point with at least two inseparable followers. What this tells me is that I'm making an incorrect sequence of moves after killing the "right" first one, but none of my trial-and-error efforts make the room completable.

Sigh.
04-05-2008 at 01:44 PM
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Blondbeard
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icon Re: Val Unrich : The First Realm : Entrance (0)  
The house by 6,18 is excelent for braking up formations.
Click here to view the secret text

04-05-2008 at 02:04 PM
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key-smiter
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icon Re: Val Unrich : The First Realm : Entrance (0)  
I liked the look of that area too . . . and one of my best performances is starting off as you advised and separating a couple of roaches at that house. Unfortunately I end up with a following of three roaches, slightly worse than two. (Or, if I take a little different route getting there, two sets of two.)

I can post a demo of one of my abortive attempts if I'm not making any sense, or if I've exhausted the list of clear hints.
04-05-2008 at 02:31 PM
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The spitemaster
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icon Re: Val Unrich : The First Realm : Entrance (0)  
Remember that you could kill the last two if you kill the right brain last.
Click here to view the secret text


____________________________
Last night upon a stair
I met a man that wasn't there
He wasn't there again today
I wish that man would stay away
04-05-2008 at 05:13 PM
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key-smiter
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icon Re: Val Unrich : The First Realm : Entrance (0)  
This room is frustrating indeed. I did get to the right brain with only two roaches following, but A) I turned back into Beethro, and B) the outcropping at (12,8) can't be used to separate roaches anyway.

I really don't have a clue here. I appreciate all your help, but I may have to find a hold I can understand.
04-05-2008 at 05:47 PM
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jbluestein
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icon Re: Val Unrich : The First Realm : Entrance (0)  
It's worth noting that I didn't even try to solve this room until I had done a few other rooms first -- I found it took me more moves than the number that I started with.

Josh

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"Rings and knots of joy and grief, all interlaced and locking." --William Buck
04-05-2008 at 08:25 PM
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The spitemaster
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icon Re: Val Unrich : The First Realm : Entrance (0)  
Isn't it kinda hard to get back if you don't beat the first room?

____________________________
Last night upon a stair
I met a man that wasn't there
He wasn't there again today
I wish that man would stay away
04-05-2008 at 08:29 PM
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jbluestein
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icon Re: Val Unrich : The First Realm : Entrance (0)  
The spitemaster wrote:
Isn't it kinda hard to get back if you don't beat the first room?

Yup. But it's not impossible.

Josh

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"Rings and knots of joy and grief, all interlaced and locking." --William Buck
04-05-2008 at 09:16 PM
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key-smiter
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File: VU The First Realm The Entrance.demo (1.2 KB)
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License: Public Domain
icon Re: Val Unrich : The First Realm : Entrance (0)  
Sorry, all, I'm still not getting it . . . my apologies for being so obtuse. (I did try the "do other rooms first" suggestion, but I run out of wraithwing time even more prematurely. Gotta do this room first, looks like -

I've attached a demo of a typical effort. Am I anywhere close to the right approach?

Thanks -
04-06-2008 at 12:25 AM
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The spitemaster
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icon Re: Val Unrich : The First Realm : Entrance (+1)  
Wow. Not only are you most of the way there but you would have gotten a high score if you finished it!

Go step by step through your demo to find a place where all the monsters are separate then kill them.

Click here to view the secret text


Other than that advice, all I can give you is a demo. (Try it first though)

____________________________
Last night upon a stair
I met a man that wasn't there
He wasn't there again today
I wish that man would stay away

[Last edited by The spitemaster at 04-06-2008 02:13 AM]
04-06-2008 at 01:34 AM
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key-smiter
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icon Re: Val Unrich : The First Realm : Entrance (0)  
I got it, thanks for your help. Now I need to figure out 1S1E . . . where it looks like I need twice as many moves as I've got available.
04-06-2008 at 03:06 AM
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The spitemaster
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icon Re: Val Unrich : The First Realm : Entrance (0)  
Beat as many as you can first, some rooms actually do need more. (But that one just needs about 25 more) Another good thing is to look around for extra way points.

____________________________
Last night upon a stair
I met a man that wasn't there
He wasn't there again today
I wish that man would stay away
04-06-2008 at 04:04 AM
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