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Jatopian
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File: Cheap Trick contest compilation.hold (290.2 KB)
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I have finally begun the processes of permissions and architecture and such for the Cheap Trick contest compilation. Some of the entrants expressed wishes to submit an improved version of their entry for the compilation, because of lack of checkpoints or solutions or whatever. If you are one of these, or if I contacted you privately about some problem, please post changed versions, victory demos, or whatever here for inclusion and feedback where applicable.

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[Last edited by Jatopian at 01-06-2008 02:40 AM : new version... HA stuff]
11-14-2007 at 01:35 AM
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jbluestein
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Jatopian wrote:
Mods: Sorry if this should be in Architecture; please move it there if so.

I think asking for permissions here is fine. I would suggest that you post the actual hold in Architecture, though.

Josh

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11-14-2007 at 04:13 PM
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Mazer
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Here's mine. I added complete solution and more hints. I also made some breakable walls more visible. If that's a problem, I can revert it back.

The hold version is 3.1.0.54.
11-18-2007 at 04:58 PM
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Jacob
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You've got my permission to use my rooms.
I still think that it would be a good idea to take out the solutions (and leave at most the hints), to make more a challenge.

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11-18-2007 at 06:50 PM
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Chaco
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You've got my permission to include my hold in its current form.

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11-18-2007 at 07:07 PM
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hartleyhair
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Jacob wrote:
I still think that it would be a good idea to take out the solutions (and leave at most the hints), to make more a challenge.

Or possibly set it so that accepting a solution will disallow you from Mastering the Hold (I know it's possible to restore, but one would have to be very unscrupulous)

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11-18-2007 at 07:09 PM
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Jatopian
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My take on the solutions is as follows. Most posts on the Hints & Solutions board happen as a result of someone needing a push to get started, feeling they've almost got it and need a hint, or demanding an outright solution. And for most holds, we don't have a thread for every room because the puzzles are nice and fair and anyone who's intelligent enough can solve them if they go about it properly. But Cheap Trick entries are different. The entire point of them is there's something cruel and unfair about them, and while some are solvable without the solution, the majority aren't. I played every one of them; I should know. Rather than clutter the forum with such scintillating replies as "Turn off alpha blending." or "It's not actually solvable and you wasted your time, sorry.", I say we recognize that Erik required solutions be included with good reason, and save nearly everyone involved some time and energy.

Mazer: Thanks, it looks fine.

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[Last edited by Jatopian at 11-20-2007 11:00 PM]
11-19-2007 at 02:46 AM
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Jatopian
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Here is the first version of the compilation. At the moment, the only ones which are completely integrated are the finalists and Erik's example; no feedback on Twice North just yet, please.
All finalists (and Erik Hermansen) are strongly beseeched to play at least their own entry, to certify that it is properly represented and integrated.
Note also that this hold contains one small meta-trick, so please ensure that you are aware of it before reporting problems.

I'm thinking that I shall give a warning when an entry involves darkness in more than a cosmetic role. This may warn those who play with alpha blending to disable it for the entry, notify those without to enable it and experience it properly, or prompt the player to save time by avoiding it altogether if it is rated low.

Edit: Checkpoints. I knew I was forgetting something. The next version will have a checkpoint on every trapdoor.
Also, I forgot to credit Tahnan with the lovely banana peel hold art.

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[Last edited by Jatopian at 11-21-2007 02:08 AM : attachment removed]
11-20-2007 at 11:15 PM
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Jacob
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Sorry, maybe I'm missing a meta-trick here but
Click here to view the secret text

Also, surely
Click here to view the secret text


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11-20-2007 at 11:39 PM
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Jatopian
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*sigh* I suppose there's a reason I didn't win this contest. Fortunately I suspected this might be unsatisfactory, and made it easy to undo.
Jacob wrote:
Sorry, maybe I'm missing a meta-trick here but
Click here to view the secret text
:-O Not intended. I didn't realize those commands were so permanent.

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[Last edited by Jatopian at 11-21-2007 01:07 AM]
11-21-2007 at 01:04 AM
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Jatopian
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:| Okay, let's try this again.
All finalists (and Erik Hermansen) are strongly beseeched to play at least their own entry, etc. &c., no more meta-tricks, don't comment on 2N, I think that covers it.
I know about the sign no longer making sense. I'll take care of that before it goes out. I just rushed this file out because I sure wouldn't want to play the previous one (apologies to the 4 who downloaded it).

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[Last edited by Jatopian at 11-21-2007 02:08 AM]
11-21-2007 at 02:05 AM
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bflatjeff
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Since I didn't have a contest entry, I'll comment on the general layout.

Entrance: It's a bit odd that the north exit is labeled "To the tricks" (plural) and the south exit is "To the solution" (singular), but this only leads to my next question...

1S: Why is Erik's example called "The solution"? Maybe call this "The example" or "Erik's example" or something similar?

1N: This is OK. I like the banana peel art very much (Bravo, Tahnan!). I don't like the 1-square stairs: I find these very easy to overlook, in the first place (1), and why must they be out of line with the trapdoor and checkpoint?

Is the editorial comment for Banjooie's entry ("MARKEDLY! I swear!") called for? I think it's OK to identify the darkness tricks, but you should explain it more than simply appending "darkness" to the first scroll.

Thanks!
BbJ

(1) Beethro and the Secret Society, The Nine Puzzles, 1W, grumble grumble.

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11-21-2007 at 06:37 AM
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jbluestein
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Can we please move this thread to the Architecture board? It really belongs over there...

Josh

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11-21-2007 at 03:29 PM
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Jatopian
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bflatjeff wrote:
Entrance: It's a bit odd that the north exit is labeled "To the tricks" (plural) and the south exit is "To the solution" (singular), but this only leads to my next question...
It's a relic from the architectural travesty that was the first version I uploaded, and will be changed.
I don't like the 1-square stairs: I find these very easy to overlook, in the first place (1), and why must they be out of line with the trapdoor and checkpoint?
This is a device I'm planning to use to set off the few entries not included. Such entries will be denoted as such, and Beethro will regain his sword on the trapdoor, making it impossible for him to get to the stairs (because the bridge will drop).
Is the editorial comment for Banjooie's entry ("MARKEDLY! I swear!") called for? I think it's OK to identify the darkness tricks, but you should explain it more than simply appending "darkness" to the first scroll.
It's not editorial. What you see there is what Banj himself wrote.

I think that I shall change this to have 1S labeled "The key/guide/explanation/whatever word fits best", and there explain the aim of the contest and the labeling of entries.

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11-21-2007 at 06:28 PM
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RuAdam
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File: The Cheap Place.hold (29 KB)
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Here's the updated version.
11-22-2007 at 04:31 PM
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Bingbing
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Just to say. With all of the entries gotten in this, it will likely outmatch even the Holds Al Dente complication (Lunchtime Special?) in the level number department.

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11-23-2007 at 11:57 PM
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Jatopian
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Thanks, RuAdam. I've included it and it will go out with the next version.

I'm going to label tarstuff abuse along with darkness, I think; both are things a player can do something external about (transparent tarstuff mods & alpha blending setting, respectively). And unconquerableness, for the high score people to skip.
I kinda want to get label happy here with unpredictable scripting, stair tricks, potions under monsters, and custom imagery, but then that won't leave much unlabeled. On the other hand, it might increase enjoyment of the hold if players are forewarned. Thoughts?

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[Last edited by Jatopian at 11-24-2007 09:10 PM]
11-24-2007 at 08:41 PM
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Bingbing
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Go on ahead. Maybe you could even organize them!

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11-24-2007 at 11:18 PM
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Jatopian
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I have now integrated the 12 entries in the Balancing Bucket league, along with the finalists. The hold also now has explanation of important information like labeling.
The new hold art is not by Tahnan, so don't ridicule him for its poor quality.

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11-28-2007 at 01:23 AM
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techant
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Just played my holds. I let Jatopian know what a great job he has done. My hold Swamps.. was fine. He had some great ideas for improvements and they were great.

But UptheDownStaircase stairs going in was broken and instead of going to the hold exited the whole thing. Said I had finished the compilation.

I PM'd Jatopian about it but wanted any other players to know there was an issue.

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[Last edited by techant at 11-28-2007 10:47 AM]
11-28-2007 at 10:46 AM
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Jacob
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One of the stairs to the hold "Cheap Trick" also ends the hold.
The stairs in the alternative version of "Flipping the Bird" end the level. It would be better if they returned to the original "Flipping the bird", please.
Is there some way of actually completing this hold?

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11-28-2007 at 04:13 PM
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techant
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Jatopian just informed me he has only gotten to Balancing Bucket or Banana Peel sections, so that is why my other hold is on hold. :fun

This is a huge project and he is doing really great work.

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11-28-2007 at 11:15 PM
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Jatopian
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As I said, I have now integrated the 12 entries in the Balancing Bucket league, along with the Banana Peel finalists. This does not include the 24 other non-finalist entries in Superglue or Whoopie Cushion leagues (one of which is techant's "Upthedownstaircase"). I'm sorry for the confusion; I probably should've blocked off the stairs to those entries which are not yet integrated.
Jacob wrote:
One of the stairs to the hold "Cheap Trick" also ends the hold.
The stairs in the alternative version of "Flipping the Bird" end the level. It would be better if they returned to the original "Flipping the bird", please.
Is there some way of actually completing this hold?
Um... which architect's "Cheap Trick"?
Sure thing about the stairs.
And due to the nature of the contest, I don't wish to "force" players to play any more than they would want to, just to drop some blue door or master wall or whatever. I know of at least one unconquerable entry, anyway. I suppose I could put a stairway somewhere to allow people their (100%) on the Location screen. However, this is certainly an arguable decision, so please argue it if you feel the need.

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11-29-2007 at 12:02 AM
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Jacob
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Oh, forget it then. The hold end stairs were for the unintegrated holds - jamesdenem and hyperme's "Cheap Trick"s.

I don't feel strongly about having to complete all the entries to complete the hold. But you could limit it to the finalists, or top 10, or some set number of the player's choice.
(e.g. some variable goes up by one every time a level is completed, and when it reaches x a door opens allowing you to complete the hold).
Whatever. Up to you. Good job so far, regardless.


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11-29-2007 at 12:20 AM
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Jatopian
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I have now included all entries except for those non-finalists in Whoopie Cushion league and the one by roach strangler, because he set his to "Only You" editing permissions and didn't send me a new version. If all your entries are finalists, in the Balancing Bucket or Superglue leagues, or should be changed from the previous version I uploaded, you might wish to download to ensure at least your own entry is properly represented.

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12-01-2007 at 02:29 AM
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Jatopian
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And here's the probably penultimate version. If you have an entry in this contest and have not done so already, download now and test at least your own. And if you don't, feel free to test anyway, and request checkpoints or whatever.
I particularly would like someone to verify that Ptanzoricis's entry, "The Drodtastic Jail", is still solvable after the changes he requested, as he seems to have gone inactive; and techant's "Upthedownstaircase" could probably benefit from extra testers as it has so many staircases.

There are two entries which are not currently included, with the compilation: roach strangler's and Lst6's, due to lack of editing rights and lack of response to PMs.

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12-02-2007 at 11:55 PM
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Jatopian
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No comments at all? Did I do that well? This silence is worrisome.
Could someone at least verify Ptanzoricis's entry solvable (It's "The Drodtastic jail" in Superglue, rated 5.53)? I at least would like that done before I ship it off to the Hold Administration.

Oh yeah - idea. Some of these are unpleasant enough to make non-highscoreable - I'll be marking those on my own judgment. I'll upload a version with said markings soon.

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[Last edited by Jatopian at 12-07-2007 01:42 AM]
12-07-2007 at 01:16 AM
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RuAdam
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I checked all entrys, and here are my comments.

Great job on the compilation, I'm sure it wasn't easy with all the entrys :thumbsup .

None of the custom character images work (for me at least), this ruins the following holds:
Superglue - Goldfinger - El Cheapo's Hold III
Balancing Bucket - Mazer - Cheap is not Expansive
Banana Peel - Tahnan - Cheap Clip Trick (this one is only grafical, the cheap trick still works)

I also found, that there are some places where the hold ends. (I mean the entire hold, not just the entry hold)
Whoopie Cushion - Jeff_Ray - The Fracking Bugger (the stairs in 2N if I remember correctly)
Whoopie Cushion - Monkey - Secret Stairs (the script in 1N1W ends the entire hold, instead of the entry)

I may be wrong, but it seems to me, that Balancing Bucket - MeckMeck GRE - Appleland Round-a-round doesn't have an end staircase.

The Drodtastic jail is compleatable.

There was one hold I could'nt finish Balancing Bucket - Pinnacle - The Abyss. Probably it's compleatable, I just could'nt figure it out even with the hints.
I also didn't check all the stairs in Upthedownstaircase, only the ones required to finish.
12-07-2007 at 08:38 PM
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Chaco
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RuAdam wrote:

I may be wrong, but it seems to me, that Balancing Bucket - MeckMeck GRE - Appleland Round-a-round doesn't have an end staircase.

Yes there is. Same trick as in several other entries - there is more than one staircase.

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12-07-2007 at 09:22 PM
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RuAdam
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Chaco wrote:
Yes there is. Same trick as in several other entries - there is more than one staircase.

I know the trick. I also compleated the original entry. But I can't find an exit staircase in the compilation version.
12-07-2007 at 09:44 PM
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