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Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Feature Requests : Undo more than 1 move.
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Trickster
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mrimer wrote:
For me, 3 moves will generally be enough. Although, there are rare occasions when I find I have placed myself in exactly the wrong position (i.e., with my back to an enemy). So, I need at least four moves to turn around and deal effectively with that threat, and possibly another turn for proper tactical setup. That makes five moves. So, there's a theoretical reason for five, in that it should deal with 99.99% of all tactical blunders and let me feel satisfied with the outcome from an optimization standpoint.
Yeah no. There's a world of difference between five and twenty when you're trying to tweak a horde-fighting scenario. Five may be fine for lynchpin-related puzzles but hordes and tarstuff puzzles can totes def make use of much more than five.

(I'm not asking for more than five, or even more than one; just saying my experience in editor is way different from this.)

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05-06-2013 at 01:58 PM
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mrimer
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Trickster wrote:
mrimer wrote:
For me, 3 moves will generally be enough. Although, there are rare occasions when I find I have placed myself in exactly the wrong position (i.e., with my back to an enemy). So, I need at least four moves to turn around and deal effectively with that threat, and possibly another turn for proper tactical setup. That makes five moves. So, there's a theoretical reason for five, in that it should deal with 99.99% of all tactical blunders and let me feel satisfied with the outcome from an optimization standpoint.
Yeah no. There's a world of difference between five and twenty when you're trying to tweak a horde-fighting scenario. Five may be fine for lynchpin-related puzzles but hordes and tarstuff puzzles can totes def make use of much more than five.
Sure, but I wasn't talking about hordes. I was making a case for when 5-move undo would be useful in practice.

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[Last edited by mrimer at 05-06-2013 02:16 PM]
05-06-2013 at 02:16 PM
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Syntax
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Not fueling the debate but most horde management is optimised before the player gets to it so anything beyond 5, unless unlimited, wouldn't really help in most horde cases
05-08-2013 at 12:19 AM
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Wasn't there a similarly heated argument when 1-move undo was introduced in JtRH?

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05-12-2013 at 12:41 AM
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mrimer
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Pinnacle wrote:
Wasn't there a similarly heated argument when 1-move undo was introduced in JtRH?
Heh, most likely.

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05-12-2013 at 05:50 AM
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mrimer wrote:
Pinnacle wrote:
Wasn't there a similarly heated argument when 1-move undo was introduced in JtRH?
Heh, most likely.

To be honest with myself, I think you are all idiot's, Which agree with this topic. I however do not agree majorly. 1 Move undo makes you understand your mistake and work out over ways of doing a puzzle if you screw up. Anymore then 1 screws the puzzle over with a big "YOU SCREWED UP BUT I CAN FIX IT WITH BACKSPACE" I mean really??????? (Sorry to put my 2 Cents in.) More fun to redo the puzzle and gives you other ways to look at it. And one other thing that's what checkpoints are for, Use them. :|

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05-12-2013 at 06:33 AM
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Kwerulous
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Calling people on this forum idiots* is a great way to make them not care in the slightest about your opinion.

*Edit: I'm sorry, idiot's.
[Last edited by Kwerulous at 05-12-2013 10:00 AM]
05-12-2013 at 09:59 AM
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EpickMan89 wrote:
To be honest with myself, I think you are all idiot's idiots, Which if you agree with this topic. I however do not agree majorly at all. 1 Move undo makes you understand your mistake and work out over other ways of doing a puzzle if you screw up. Anymore Any more then than 1 screws the puzzle over with a big "YOU I SCREWED UP BUT I CAN FIX IT WITH BACKSPACE". I mean really??????? (Sorry to put my 2 Cents in.) It's Mmore fun to redo the puzzle and gives you other ways to look at it. And one other thing: that's what checkpoints are for,; Use use them. :|
Fixed that for you. Oh, and as long as I'm at it:
EpickMan89 wrote:
I am however quite older, and my spelling and grammar is a lot better haven't really improved at all.
Fixing the rest of that post is left as an exercise for its author.
05-12-2013 at 06:23 PM
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OneMoreNameless
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Correcting people's grammar is the best and only way to explain to them that their arguments are opinionated.
05-13-2013 at 12:13 AM
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skell
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And I think you are all being needlessly mean to him and I am fairly sure he or people not from here won't see your reasoning hidden under all this snark.

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[Last edited by skell at 05-13-2013 07:41 AM]
05-13-2013 at 07:41 AM
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skell wrote:
And I think you are all being needlessly mean to him and I am fairly sure he or people not from here won't see your reasoning hidden under all this snark.
I've always been confused by the disparity between the "be careful what you say there are kids on the forum" edict and the merciless manner in which those children are generally treated by the other forum members who expect them to already be adults.

So yeah, insult them, downvote them into oblivion, and directly critique everything they do and say without regard for age; but thank goodness nobody said the word 'f***' because as we all know that makes a child's head explode.

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[Last edited by mrimer at 05-13-2013 11:01 PM : for the kids]
05-13-2013 at 03:16 PM
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Trickster wrote:
skell wrote:
And I think you are all being needlessly mean to him and I am fairly sure he or people not from here won't see your reasoning hidden under all this snark.
I've always been confused by the disparity between the "be careful what you say there are kids on the forum" edict and the merciless manner in which those children are generally treated by the other forum members who expect them to already be adults.

So yeah, insult them, downvote them into oblivion, and directly critique everything they do and say without regard for age; but thank goodness nobody said the word '[future proofing]' because as we all know that makes a child's head explode.

1. What 14 isn't child age.
2. Really when you're 14 you should type good.
3. Being 14 isn't really an excuse for calling anyone who supports a specific feature idiots.

Also the -10 probably would of reached the negatives anyway, since it's rude, disregards context and doesn't add to the conversation. Also people don't like being insulted.

Also watch yer language! This is a civil discussion.

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05-13-2013 at 03:54 PM
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Someone Else
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I think the other important factor is that he doesn't seem to understand the correction he has been given in the past, and it frustrates certain forumites.
Also,
hyperme wrote:
2. Really when you're 14 you should type good well.
:P
[Last edited by Someone Else at 05-13-2013 05:07 PM]
05-13-2013 at 04:37 PM
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da rogu3
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Someone Else wrote:
Also,
hyperme wrote:
2. Really when you're 14 you should type good well.
:P
Also,
hyperme wrote: Also the -10 probably would of have reached the negatives anyway
Sorry :P

It's a shame, because EpickMan89 actually made a somewhat valid point - but then ruined it with the inappropriate way he presented that point. Edit: To clarify, I agree with what he said about understanding the puzzle & using checkpoints, not with him calling everyone idiots.

In fact, Trickster seems to have made the same mistake..
[Last edited by da rogu3 at 05-13-2013 09:55 PM]
05-13-2013 at 05:23 PM
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Trickster
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da rogu3 wrote:
It's a shame, because EpickMan89 actually made a somewhat valid point - but then ruined it with the inappropriate way he presented that point.

In fact, Trickster seems to have made the same mistake..
No mistake here. In this case I intend the content to be received by those people capable of enough tolerance and maturity to read it and deal.

I don't think anything I put here is going to change how someone acts, but picking on kids is taking the low-hanging fruit and it's not nearly as funny as some people seem to think it is. Go ahead and pick on me instead.

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05-13-2013 at 09:28 PM
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stigant
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This community has always dealt with kids and adults fairly equally, and has never tolerated anybody calling anybody else an idiot for any reason whatsoever. We've had some success modifying and molding people's behavior with that attitude (Jeff_Ray for example), and we've had some failures (ie we've driven off some young people, for example EpikMan v 1.0, who probably didn't understand that what they were doing was tacky and annoying). But EpikMan 2.0 came back and claimed to be an adult (regardless of him only being 14), then demonstrated that he wasn't. He's been scolded fairly and doesn't need to be defended. He can take the scolding or he can leave. Either way he's been dealt with fairly (by which I mean, at least in part, he's been treated the way he treated others).

Now, is it nice to make fun of someone's grammar at the expense of the point he was making? No. But when that point is that other people are idiots, there's a certain amount of delicious irony to be had in that that helps make our point better (ie we're holding you to the same standard to which you wished to hold other people)

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05-13-2013 at 09:41 PM
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skell
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Trickster wrote:
Go ahead and pick on me instead.

You're a wee wee!

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05-13-2013 at 09:47 PM
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da rogu3
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Trickster wrote: No mistake here. In this case I intend the content to be received by those people capable of enough tolerance and maturity to read it and deal.
Well, whilst I agreed entirely with your post and took no offense myself, I just don't think dropping the f-bomb was needed - especially as it's against forum rules and Schik has had to censor people before for doing exactly the same.
05-13-2013 at 10:02 PM
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12th Archivist
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So, uh, guys,

how about that Unlimited Undo, huh?

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05-13-2013 at 10:56 PM
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mrimer
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12th Archivist wrote:
So, uh, guys,

how about that Unlimited Undo, huh?
It's in!

And there was much rejoicing.

Yay......

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05-13-2013 at 11:08 PM
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Kwerulous
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This might seem is a weird question, but out of curiosity, will there be an option for... no undo?
05-13-2013 at 11:15 PM
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Kwerulous wrote:
This might seem is a weird question, but out of curiosity, will there be an option for... no undo?
Yes.

>use screwdriver on backspace key

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05-13-2013 at 11:28 PM
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Kwerulous wrote:
This might seem is a weird question, but out of curiosity, will there be an option for... no undo?
I have a suggestion that I would actually like implemented, but unfortunately is not likely to be implemented because it will be difficult to convince anyone I am not making this up.

Negative-undo. Let the undo-meter go from positive to zero, and further back to negative. Like, every time I hit backspace, instead of undoing previous actions, it creates X random moves and executes them. Or maybe it creates X moves based on some robotic DROD-like engine, maybe forcing Beethro to act like a Stalwart.

Suggestions for fractional-undo, algebraic-undo, transcendental-undo, and imaginary-axis-undo are still pending more brainstorming.

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05-13-2013 at 11:29 PM
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stigant
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will there be an option for... no undo?
No, all moves must be undone. No one will ever solve a room ever again.

In seriousness, I don't know the answer, but the slider concept that was discussed above seems to suggest that you might be able to set it to 0 moves to mimic AE.

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05-13-2013 at 11:29 PM
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Negative-undo.
Actually, that sounds like it might be fun... how much trouble can I get myself into and still survive?

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05-13-2013 at 11:31 PM
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Jacob
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It is a slider from 0 to infinity.

DROD already has a negative move undo feature.
It is called making a move.

(In fact, there are upwards of 8 negative undo options).

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05-13-2013 at 11:39 PM
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OneMoreNameless
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Unlimited undo isn't very exciting. Technically, we've already had that option for a while now - though under the different name of unins000.exe.

It would also be neat if you could set the slider to 0.5 and only undo the monsters' last move, to hope they choose a different one (spoiler: they never do).

I'd imagine that setting the slider to anything below 0 would first result in undoing your 'undo move' move, cancelling the rest of the undoing and leaving your back where you started. But hopefully with a swirly graphics effect or TARDIS audio clip.
05-14-2013 at 12:16 AM
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Trickster wrote:
Negative-undo. Let the undo-meter go from positive to zero, and further back to negative. Like, every time I hit backspace, instead of undoing previous actions, it creates X random moves and executes them. Or maybe it creates X moves based on some robotic DROD-like engine, maybe forcing Beethro to act like a Stalwart.
I call for UNLIMITED negative undo!

The thing is, this undo is forced to go on keeping you alive for infinity. (As it is negative undo, in can't lead to a death state; space time continuum and all). For any solvable room it must eventually lead to a clean state and thus it's the ultimate DROD solver!

Don't let us down now Mrimer.

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05-14-2013 at 12:22 AM
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Jacob wrote: It is a slider from 0 to infinity.
That must be a pretty long slider.
05-14-2013 at 02:06 AM
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05-14-2013 at 04:12 AM
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