Doom
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 3226
Registered: 07-05-2004
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I think I'm about to give up with this.

I played this yesterday for 3 hours (didn't watch the old demo, which took some extra), today a little more, and got through a large part of the room. Should be easy from here if I only got past this one last obstacle.

What I'm having trouble with, is the changed area with the few new passages. I've kept both wraithwings alive in case they might become useful here, but there's no place where they won't follow me to the east, away from the tar blockade, when I go hit the orb in the tar area myself.

I've actually gotten pretty close to the 3-orb-hit without letting the forbidden tar grow by piling a lot of babies behind the wraithwings, but the main problem is that you can move only about 2 steps forward per spawn, since the wraithwings move with you and you need a hole-less mass of babies behind them. Also, even if I got that, getting back in time through the horde to stop the growth seems like it's not going to work... Plus, it's not particularly fun to try when there aren't any usable checkpoints in that area (mimics don't have any when they're next to the orbs, and retreating to "18,20" isn't possible after you make some progress with tar and the wraithwings)

If you got that, I'd be happy to know if that's even close to how the section is supposed to be done. I'm pretty sure wraithwings are the only usable block here, in any case.

Rabscuttle
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2460
Registered: 09-10-2004
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Are you using see-through tar?

Doom
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 3226
Registered: 07-05-2004
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File: latestsave.JPG (153.5 KB)
Downloaded 109 times.
License: Other

Yes, of course. For reference, here's what one of my better save locations looks like.

---

[Last edited by Doom at 06-27-2007 10:58 AM : reduced file size]

Rabscuttle
Level: Smitemaster

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Doom
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 3226
Registered: 07-05-2004
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...I'm certainly making things a LOT harder than necessary for myself. I just realised I would've probably solved this just by watching that old demo of mine. Talk about forgetting *that*

Thanks Rabs!

Doom
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 3226
Registered: 07-05-2004
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Lev Room totals:

Moves: 25590
Kills: 5567
Deaths: 145
Time: 7:59:43

Rabscuttle
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2460
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hmmm... that took shorter than expected given your screenshot. Have you broken the room?

Rabscuttle
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2460
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hmm... I think I see a way you could have broken it.

Rabscuttle
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2460
Registered: 09-10-2004
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noooo!

Rabscuttle
Level: Smitemaster

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Doom
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 3226
Registered: 07-05-2004
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I would've guessed that to be intentional because the pieces fit so nicely.

Then I watched your demo of the correct solution. Cute. But the room most definitely isn't trivial even without that small (possibly sooo cruel) extra trick.

Oh yeah, we need more rooms like these

Rabscuttle
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2460
Registered: 09-10-2004
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Doom wrote:
(possibly sooo cruel)

Heh, it certainly would have been cruel for you.

Is it wrong that that thought makes me cackle with glee?

martz
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 414
Registered: 08-19-2005
IP: Logged

So apparently this room is quite difficult which probably suggests I'm doing it wrong.

I've got a horrible feeling the answer to this is yes, but I'm going to ask anyway - do I need something at 24,10?

____________________________
Without struggle, there is no progress, so get up, get out, and go make the rest of your life the best of your life; you deserve to live the life that YOU want to live...

Progress - Gavin G

martz
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 414
Registered: 08-19-2005
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So I figured out the answer above is yes, and also managed to pull it off...but I'm still not quite there.

I realise there are only a small number of people who can help me with this but I would appreciate if someone can confirm or deny my observations below:

So what am I missing?

____________________________
Without struggle, there is no progress, so get up, get out, and go make the rest of your life the best of your life; you deserve to live the life that YOU want to live...

Progress - Gavin G

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[Last edited by martz at 10-23-2015 04:05 PM]

martz
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 414
Registered: 08-19-2005
IP: Logged

Managed to work it out - point 4 above was incorrect.

I did have issues in this room with the spiders - I believe this is an already reported bug where they seem to randomly disappear & re-appear accompanied by beeping.

I am curious about the talk above of 25k move solutions being too short. I watched Rab's demo of 65k-odd moves but it consisted of waiting for about 63k moves whilst nothing happened? I wonder whether this room has been changed as I couldn't see any reason to wait for that length of time?

____________________________
Without struggle, there is no progress, so get up, get out, and go make the rest of your life the best of your life; you deserve to live the life that YOU want to live...

Progress - Gavin G

Doom
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 3226
Registered: 07-05-2004
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martz wrote:
I am curious about the talk above of 25k move solutions being too short. I watched Rab's demo of 65k-odd moves but it consisted of waiting for about 63k moves whilst nothing happened? I wonder whether this room has been changed as I couldn't see any reason to wait for that length of time?

I think those 60k+ waits were just to temporarily claim the #1 spot on the longest first place scores leaderboard (see here).

It's not that 25k moves is too short. In fact it's not even my solution length, but the total movecount across all attempts that you see at the end of the level.

-rather I did one part of the room in an unintended way. The intended solution doesn't work if you start from the position in my screenshot and Rabscuttle expected it'd take longer to find the mistake and replay the whole room to correct it.

Dragon Fogel
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 2434
Registered: 06-21-2014
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I'm very confused by this room. I'll start with the one part that seems necessary, but that I can't figure out at all.

martz
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 414
Registered: 08-19-2005
IP: Logged

If you read my posts above there are some fairly explicit spoilers, but to answer your question - you can't destroy the tar there

____________________________
Without struggle, there is no progress, so get up, get out, and go make the rest of your life the best of your life; you deserve to live the life that YOU want to live...

Progress - Gavin G

Dragon Fogel
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 2434
Registered: 06-21-2014
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Yeah, that's what I thought.

Unfortunately, I evidently need a precise move sequence from the start of the room to deal with that and I've had no luck stumbling on it. Can I get some help there?

martz
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 414
Registered: 08-19-2005
IP: Logged

Try this

____________________________
Without struggle, there is no progress, so get up, get out, and go make the rest of your life the best of your life; you deserve to live the life that YOU want to live...

Progress - Gavin G

Dragon Fogel
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 2434
Registered: 06-21-2014
IP: Logged

Thanks.

That first part of the room is absolutely horrible. Thankfully, none of my later mistakes required me to restore to a point before clearing out the tar in that area.

Now I just have The Twist left...

disoriented
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2384
Registered: 08-07-2007
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Requesting a Demo. Thanks

____________________________
34th Skywatcher

Best to PM me, since I might miss your message on CaravelNet chat.

martz
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 414
Registered: 08-19-2005
IP: Logged

Which part of this room are you having trouble with? The posts above give you the starting sequence and some of the lynch pins.

____________________________
Without struggle, there is no progress, so get up, get out, and go make the rest of your life the best of your life; you deserve to live the life that YOU want to live...

Progress - Gavin G

mauvebutterfly
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 720
Registered: 05-03-2015
IP: Logged

Before I waste any more time on this room I want to know if what I'm doing is even on the right track.

I've managed to solve every issue except one. The orb at (13,26) seems to need to be struck a second time in order for it to be possible to kill the evil eye at (2,30). The problem with this is that the passage at (14,20) where the broken wall is can only be traversed a single time before tar grows into it making the passage impassible.

The obvious solution here is to insure that something is in that passage every 30 turns to prevent tar growth. In practice this has been a miserable experience.

I'm requesting two things here:

1. Am I correct in assuming that I need to get down to this orb twice to solve the room?

2. If 1 is correct, what method should be used to make this possible?

I am able to get everything into position, but getting Beethro from the passage at (14,20) to the orb at (27,26) and back out without tar growing in the passage is a huge problem. I've tried various iterations of tar babies and have even left a roach queen alive to have roaches enter the area with different timing from the tar baby attempts. I have not attempted using the second wraithwing for this (I'm pretty sure the first wraithwing is required elsewhere) so if the answer is just to keep the second wraithwing alive the entire time while doing all of the necessary wraithwing nonsense at the start of the room then I'd appreciate knowing that even though I really don't want to do it.

The reason I haven't tried the wraithwing solution yet is that it seems incredibly annoying to set up in the first place, and just looking at it I'm not immediately sure how a wraithwing would even help. I suspect that a very precise move sequence will be required regardless of the actual method, so I'll probably just ask for that after spending another hour on whatever the intended method is.

____________________________
106th Skywatcher

Dragon Fogel
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 2434
Registered: 06-21-2014
IP: Logged

Good news, you don't need a second wraithwing. You have a false assumption which you might catch if you think about things a little more.

If you don't, I've noted the false assumption below.