silver
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 915
Registered: 01-18-2005
IP: Logged

okay, maybe I'm old school, but the defining points in fantasy to me are these:

J.R.R. Tolkien - The Hobbit, the War of the Rings - actually, to be honest, I don't like these books anymore. but so much references and copies them that they have to be read as background to understand most other fantasy you might read.

Roger Zelazny - the Chronicles of Amber (first five) - I could read these over and over. Corwin is great as a practical hero. The multiverse of Amber/Chaos/Shadow is immensely full of possibility.

Roger Zelazny - Lord of Light - this I have read over and over and over. This book is fraking awesome. He combines fantasy and sci-fi, but moreso. He brings us a world where Hindu mythology is verifiable fact through technology... and he brings us epic wars and poetry and through it all a sense of reason and respect for the spiritual as well... this book and Creatures of Light and Darkness led me to authoring my corollary to Clarke's Law (which you may have heard is "A sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."): Zelazny's Corollary (by silver): "A sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from godhood.".

Stephen Donaldson - the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever - perhaps I only enjoy these in memory because they were my first experience with an anti-hero... but I think perhaps not. The Land was every bit as amazing as Middle Earth to me - actually more so. I cared about the Land and loved struggling against Covenant to just fraking wake up and do the right thing.

Anne McCaffrey - the Dragonriders of Pern - the series probably went on too long. I didn't read books beyond the first trilogy. I loved the mix of fantasy and sci-fi in the early books, though. And many dragon related books have copied her since.

Terry Pratchett - Discworld - what Douglas Addams was to sci-fi, Pratchett was to fantasy, only better. The best spoof of fantasy there is.

Fred Saberhagen - The Empire of the East, the Swords trilogy (not the later swords books) - the conception of the gods playing games which lead to their own demise was great. They really brought to life the concept of artifacts which are so powerful as to be cursed along with their blessing.

Lyndon Hardy - Master of the Five Magics (not the sequels) - I loved the treatment of magic as science here. (to be honest, the first sequel was okay. the second sequel was distinctly Not Scottish, however).

finally:

Larry Niven - The Magic Goes Away - the idea of depleting mana was interesting. Niven is usually flat on character, but high on idea.

I've read and loved other fantasy, but often I find myself classifying it all in terms of one of the above.


____________________________

---

[Last edited by silver at 06-13-2007 04:47 AM]

noma
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1594
Registered: 11-22-2006
IP: Logged

Essential modern fantasy:

Susannah Clark, Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell

Neil Gaiman, American Gods

Philip Pullman, His Dark Materials trilogy

Magic, myth, morality.

silver
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 915
Registered: 01-18-2005
IP: Logged

I've just finished the first two books and started the third of His Dark Materials. good stuff, I think, so far. but being an atheist I have to wait to see the ending before I decide if I hate the author or not


____________________________

---

[Last edited by silver at 06-13-2007 04:45 AM]

Mattcrampy
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2388
Registered: 05-29-2003
IP: Logged

Is it necessary to name a series? I mean, Eddings basically writes the same book over and over so you can really read one of his (I'd go with The Redemption of Althalus, but any will probably do) and Donaldson has a wildly divergent style (I couldn't read Thomas Covenant, but ate up The Gap and Mordant's Need).

I would argue against Zelazny, Saberhagen and Hardy. There's plenty of authors I think are great and should be read (mostly Australian fantasy authors) that I wouldn't consider as being "essential" - in that I wouldn't doubt you if you said "I know about fantasy, though I haven't read any of Irvine/Canavan". Although certainly I'd get you to read some. (I still consider the first half of The Magician's Guild to be some of the best fantasy I've read.)

McCaffrey, though, I would certainly call "essential". It's a lot harder to say, "I know all about fantasy, but I've never heard of this 'Anne McCaffrey'. Is she good?"

Incidentally, anyone heard of Sara Douglass?

So, considering the "essentials", I'd be shocked if a fantasy fan didn't know of/had tried to read David Eddings, as mentioned, Robert Jordan, maybe Goodkind. Perhaps Paulini would count these days, considering the buzz around Eragon.

(Not that I'm saying these books are my favourites: quite the opposite; I can't read much Eddings or Goodkind these days, although perhaps the most recent Wheel of Time is better. The question's more what's considered essential to have at least tried reading, to have heard of and sought out.)

____________________________
What do you call an elephant at the North Pole?

silver
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 915
Registered: 01-18-2005
IP: Logged

Mattcrampy wrote:
I would argue against Zelazny

wash your mouth out with soap. seriously. Amber is important.

I'd prefer if you named books or book series for your recommendations -- not for argument's sake, but because I'll probably amazon+read most of whatever is mentioned in this thread

(I'm totally fine with downplaying Saberhagen and especially Hardy and Niven, however, as filling a secondary role in fantasy)


____________________________

---

[Last edited by silver at 06-13-2007 06:07 AM]

jemann
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 160
Registered: 01-13-2006
IP: Logged

Well, if we're talking classic fantasy, there's always the Odyssey. And if you want a challenge, you could try Dante's Divine Comedy. Moving on to more modern fare...

The Gormenghast novels, by Mervyn Peake. Sprawling, decaying edifice with a cast of unlikely, Dickensian characters (sample names: Flay, Steerpike, Sepulchrave). Quite unlike anything else; much of the enjoyment resides in the beauty of the prose.

The Worm Ouroboros, by E.R. Eddison. The demigods of Zelazny without the pragmatism; this is high fantasy, heady stuff.

Many people like Michael Moorcock; I prefer Fritz Leiber's Lankhmar series (starring Fafhrd and The Gray Mouser). Classic swords & sorcery, written for adults with a sense of humour.

H.P. Lovecraft - some of his better short stories are worth a read (say, Call of Cthulhu); his writing style is often parodied, but he's been enormously influential in horror and fantasy.

For kids, two series:
The Chronicles of Prydain, by Lloyd Alexander. Five novels based around the Welsh Mabinogion; the series is nicely graded to become older and wiser with the reader.

The Dark is Rising, by Susan Cooper. Nice blend of the real world and the fantastic, a giant struggle between good & evil without the proselytising of C.S. Lewis.

Beef Row
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 471
Registered: 12-28-2005
IP: Logged

silver wrote:
Stephen Donaldson - the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever - perhaps I only enjoy these in memory because they were my first experience with an anti-hero... but I think perhaps not. The Land was every bit as amazing as Middle Earth to me - actually more so. I cared about the Land and loved struggling against Covenant to just fraking wake up and do the right thing.

I've heard recommendations of this for maybe the last decade. I was excited about it. I was warned the character would be unlikable, but I'm normally completely comfortable with anti-heroes. I'd read the first book of the Gap series and thought it was ok, though there was this one theme I didn't like about it.

So I started the series with anticipation about two months ago. I was unimpressed by the writing, but didn't understand why Thomas Covenant was so hated. Then I found out why, and it was the same thing I didn't like about the first Gap book. (Spoiler for both series, also dealing with an adult topic).



After I found out WHY Thomas Covenant himself is so disliked by readers, I've made little progress in the book, and it feels like a chore, honestly. I think without the context of the events in The Real Story (the first Gap book), I wouldn't have been so bothered, but I can't erase that knowledge. Anyway, this is a personal reaction, by someone who has only read about half of the first book, and may well never finish it. Its not meant to be an attack on anyone who does enjoy the series. It's not even an attack on Donaldson, as I don't have the context of whatever happens later.

For those who haven't read the series, I'm not sure whether I'd recommend opening the spoiler tag or not, its very much your choice. It will give away a major plot event from early in the first book, but an event that may ruin the series for some readers. I definitely wouldn't recommend this series to younger readers, (and I honestly can't think of any other major fantasy series I'd say that about. Maybe Wraeththu. If thats even major, which is probably isn't. And even that, I might recommend to queer, trans or questioning youth.)

Personal to Matt: is this the same reason you couldn't read Thomas Covenant, or was it a stylistic thing?

____________________________
"Now I will repeatedly apply the happy-face rule"

NiroZ
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1302
Registered: 02-12-2006
IP: Logged

silver wrote:
Anne McCaffrey - the Dragonriders of Pern - the series probably went on too long. I didn't read books beyond the first trilogy. I loved the mix of fantasy and sci-fi in the early books, though. And many dragon related books have copied her since.

Probably a good idea. I picked up one of her books (not sure which series, but considering the lengthy backstory, it wasn't one of the early ones). I gave up on it after it explained that not only were there things exactly like dragons, but they happened to be able to slow time, freeze time, and go back in time (and IIRC perhaps even resurrect people). All the while trying to make it sound Sci-Fi. Meh

I would also agree with Mattcrampy about Eddings. I read 'Redemption of Althalus' first. Impressed, I decided to read the 'Elenium' series. I can't express how disappointed I was to see that it was exactly the same plot! IIRC, it even had some of the same jokes . Personally, I wished I had read Elenium first, with the exclusion of the end, where it really fell apart, it was much better.

The Dark is Rising is ok, but the 'make it up as you go along' vibe was a little too strong for me.

Personally, I'd recommend David Gemmell's 'Legend', 'Ravenheart' and 'Stormrider'

Disclaimer: I haven't actually read any fantasy books in quite some time, so my memory may be a little off.

Mattcrampy
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2388
Registered: 05-29-2003
IP: Logged

jemann wrote:
H.P. Lovecraft

OK, yeah, that's definitely part of the canon.

Personal to Matt: is this the same reason you couldn't read Thomas Covenant, or was it a stylistic thing?

Exactly the same reason - though I got a bit further just to see if the village caught up with him and gave him what he deserved. Mordant's Need had none of that, thankfully, and the 'whisking regular person away for magical adventures' didn't grate like normal (say, Eragon) because the character's initially useless in the new world too and has to get a grip.

I guess this has turned into a 'what fantasy do you like' thread, so then I guess here's some authors I like:

Ian Irvine, The View From The Mirror/The Well of Echoes/Song of the Tears: While he's hard to read because his characters never get a break, it's harder to read other fantasy afterwards that doesn't bother with things like 'motivations'. He puts a lot of work into making everyone seem realistic - his heroes and heroines start off being basically regular people caught up in the power plays of the people in charge, all of whom are on their own side, so naturally they end up being pawns. Interestingly, all of the villains are somewhat sympathetic, and all of them have a pretty good reason for what they're doing (that is, not "I want power". Well, except one, but he still gets his moments).

The View From The Mirror's self contained, so it's best to start with that. The Well of Echoes ends on a cliffhanger and doesn't resolve some of its background plot threads, leaving them for the last series (which isn't finished).

Trudi Canavan, The Magician's Guild: I stand by my declaration that the first half of this book is dynamite. Magic's strictly controlled by the upper class, and during a moment of civic duty by the wizards, driving the poor out of the slums, one of them gets beaned in the head by a peasant girl. While the rest of the series is perfectly fine, it's that opening, the whole 'oh you're a powerful magician and broke through our magic shields, but you're a commoner so we're going to get you' is particularly nicely done.

Isobelle Carmody, Legendsong Saga: This one sort of gets me because it has some really interesting ideas, then blows them. The concept is that evil isn't so much maniacal scheming as a despair, and so why not steal that stuff/maniacaly scheme/think ill of humanity/destroy civilisation? It's not as if it really matters if you don't, and if humanity are as greedy and idiotic as they all act, then you're not hurting anyone that doesn't deserve it? Right?

Thus the face of evil is laid bare. (This is one of the reasons why I think that misanthropy is a threat, incidentally. I have other reasons.)

While it's a relatively standard 'pluck Earth heroine with wanderlust out of their existence and into bright happy fantasy land' it's complicated somewhat because there's two: the one that's set up to be the heroine and sort of does stuff, and the one that actually is, but has terminal cancer and is going to die in a couple of weeks. And, as we discover, life goes on without them on Earth, and the Great Evil is in full force there/here as well. And it's actually all justified (even the 'oh, you can speak English, too') acceptably well.

But man! The plot is an Idiot Plot (where it's mostly misunderstanding driving things) and I think the author is, by the definition she uses, evil. This might be justified in the still unfinished third book, as I got the idea one of the heroines was being an author mouthpiece, but maybe not. In any case, while the premise is dynamite, the author's not quite good enough to make the story work without resorting to cliche, so I'll have to steal it at some point and try myself. But there's still some individual kickass scenes, the romance is sweet and fresh and it's taking an axe to emo, so I'll give it a bye.

____________________________
What do you call an elephant at the North Pole?

Blondbeard
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1486
Registered: 03-31-2005
IP: Logged

I'm absolutely shocked that no one has mentioned George R.R Martins "A song of ice and fire." The most intelligent, realistic, yet fantastic fantasy I've ever read.

I was going to write some more, but my message got eaten last time I pressed "send reply"

noma
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1594
Registered: 11-22-2006
IP: Logged

silver wrote:
I've just finished the first two books and started the third of His Dark Materials. good stuff, I think, so far. but being an atheist I have to wait to see the ending before I decide if I hate the author or not

A good story is a good story, however you might be interested to know that Philip Pullman has described himself as an atheist.

I should really have caveated this choice though. The last book... well, I felt it could have been better. But given the overall story, it is still worthy of completion.

eytanz
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2708
Registered: 02-05-2003
IP: Logged

First let me start by adding a few recommendations - [

Jack Vance, particularly Tales of the Dying Earth and Lyonese, but anything else by him, really.

Guy Gavriel Kay - Practically everything he wrote is a good read, though sometimes his characters can be a bit irritating. I'd start with Tigana, which is a stand-alone- if you like it, you'll probably like everything else he wrote.

Lord Dunsany - The King of Elfland's Daughter - if you haven't read this, stop reading this post and go get the book right now.

Patricia McKillip, who creates stunningly beautiful worlds and fills them with wonderful prose, and really, really confusing plots. If you don't insist on understanding exactly what's going on in your literature, she's a must.

Then there's a few other authors I enjoy but I'd consider less essential - Charles de Lint writes fantasy stories in modern urban settings. He's a lot of fun, though I find him a bit unsubtle at times. Anne Bishop the Black Jewels trilogy is pulp fantasy at its finest - a lot of sex and violence, but the story is compelling. Susana Clark - Johnathan Strange and Mister Norrell, a recent book that marries the style of an early 19th century English novel with a fantasy plot. Really recommended if you don't get sick at the thought of Jane Austen. (oops, just noticed Noma already mentioned this one; he didn't describe it, though) Hope Mirrlees - Lud-in-the-mist - it's pretty hard for me to describe this one, but if you liked most of the other books I recommended, you'd probably enjoy this one.

Ok, deep breath. That was additions. Now, comments:

I'd certainly put Zelazny - at least the Amber books - on the "essential" list. His influence has been immense.

Donaldson, I agree, is a tough read, and shouldn't be on the "essential" list. I think he's a good writer and very rewarding at the end, but his novels basically make you go through a redemption cycle - start the characters at a low point, make them go even lower, then have them struggle to redeem themselves until finally they succeed. It can be really off-putting to a lot of people, though, as can be seen from the above discussion. One thing I would recommend, though, is his short fiction, which doesn't suffer from the same problems and is generally excellent.

Phillip Pullamn - I agree that the third book of His Dark Materials is significantly inferior to the first two. Still well worth reading, though.

Eddings - I realize he wasn't actually recommended by anyone, just mentioned, but while Matt is more or less right about his writing the same book over and over, he's also wrong in that they're not interchangable - the plot is repeatable but the writing becomes a lot worse in recent books. If you want to read Eddings, read early Eddings. Avoid the Younger Gods sequence like the plague.

E.R. Eddison - The Worm Ouroboros is a very interesting book for historical reasons, but it's a difficult book to read for a modern audience. I'd recommend it to readers interested in the development of fantasy, but not so much to readers just looking for something to enjoy.

____________________________
I got my avatar back! Yay!

Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2936
Registered: 03-29-2003
IP: Logged

Blondbeard wrote:
I'm absolutely shocked that no one has mentioned George R.R Martins "A song of ice and fire." The most intelligent, realistic, yet fantastic fantasy I've ever read.

Only because I hadn't woken up yet.

So officially, my favorite fantasy series are:

George R. R. Martin -- the A Song of Ice and Fire series, starting with A Game of Thrones.

Tad Williams -- the Memory, Sorrow and Thorn series, starting with The Dragonbone Chair. I also very much enjoyed his Otherland series, as well as the new Shadowmarch series, which is not yet complete.

Terry Pratchett -- as previously mentioned.

Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman -- the Death Gate Cycle (first book is Dragon Wing) is probably my favorite series of theirs, although I still have a soft spot in my heart for their Dragonlance books. They started out more or less typical D&D adaptation crap, but turned into much more (in my opinion--and definitely not counting spin-offs by other authors).

Neil Gaiman -- the Sandman series of graphic novels, of course, with Brief Lives being my absolute favorite.

Some authors I have a love/hate relationship with:

Robert Jordan -- because The Wheel of Time is going on forever, although at least book 11 was a return to form. I still love the first 5 books, the later ones can't take those from me.

Terry Goodkind -- again, the first two books of his Sword of Truth series are among my favorites, but they quickly degenerated. There were some good parts, and I did enjoy Faith of the Fallen more than most of the other later ones, but this is one of the few series that I started buying in hardcover and then switched to softcover because I wouldn't pay full price any more.

David Eddings -- as someone above said, read one series of his, you've read them all. It's really sad how similar they are, but I'll have a soft spot for my first reading of the Belgariad. I haven't re-read these in a very long time though.

More recent authors that I like, but aren't on my favorites list:

Robin Hobb -- the Assassin's trilogy and Fool's trilogy are great, but I didn't like the Ship trilogy that much. Her new series, which I forget the name and am running late so I won't look it up, is also shaping up to be great.

Kate Elliott -- the Crown of Stars series is slow, but was worth the read (and was a good price from the Science Fiction Book Club). Her new series, which started with Spirit Gate, is looking good and faster paced as well.

I gotta run. I may have more later.

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

---

[Last edited by Oneiromancer at 06-13-2007 01:32 PM]

jemann
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 160
Registered: 01-13-2006
IP: Logged

eytanz wrote:
E.R. Eddison - The Worm Ouroboros is a very interesting book for historical reasons, but it's a difficult book to read for a modern audience. I'd recommend it to readers interested in the development of fantasy, but not so much to readers just looking for something to enjoy.

Well, I enjoyed it; but yes, tough going. I listed it because I was trying to add to silver's list of 'the defining points in fantasy', rather than listing more modern favourites. Reading both this and Leiber were 'Aha!' moments for me: encountering the original when I'd previously read the pale imitations. Vance is one I forgot to mention, ta.

I haven't gotten into Dunsany's short stories, but usually prefer novels anyway - will have to try The King of Elfland's Daughter.

I highly recommend the Fantasy Masterworks series - they've republished some awesome stuff, including many of the older books listed in this thread.

Beef Row
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 471
Registered: 12-28-2005
IP: Logged

Well, between everyone in this thread, I think the modern canon is quite well covered. Older books haven't really been so much, but I don't know them that well.

Lewis Carrol's Alice books are absolutely, absolutely essential though.

Baum's Oz books, I haven't read enough of to class them, but my guess is the first few are essentials, and everything after that utterly disposable, this more from knowing the plots than actual reading.

Here are some books that I'd rank as essential, more for how they transcend fantasy, than for belonging in the canon. This ended up being much longer, and having much fewer books, than I anticipated:

John Gardner's Grendel: excellent story from the point of view of the monster. One of the major motivations of writing this was as an attack on nihilism and existentialism. Ironically, it is the portrayal of these philosophies that makes this book so powerful, and frightening, as at the same time Gardner exposes the bleakness of these points of view, he is prone to make them appear correct. Also, he manages to make Grendel sympathetic, even as he doesn't shy away in the least from his evil and insanity. This works because he is very much a victim of his circumstances, and because ultimately few of the human characters are any better, yet most believe that they are. Read Beowulf first, or at least make sure you know its story.

Gardner in general is worth reading, and much (not all) of his writing is fantasy, or at least contains fantasy stories within the main story. Another particular recommendation is Jason and Medea (in this case read Euripides' Medea first). This is a full retelling of the Jason mythology, from the journeys of the Argonauts, to the claiming of the golden fleece, to the final tragedy at the end. It again brings in many philosophical aspects, and Gardner himself is a character, as it is presented as his nightmare, and he (knowing the story) suffers from his inability to intervene and change the outcome. This book too has some very philosophically frightening passages.

Gardner detested experimental authors, and yet most of his books are experimental in form. I don't understand how this happened, but I'm glad it did.

Samuel Delany: anything, but for fantasy especially the Return to Neveryon series. Delany needs to be described as a person before explaining his books, because so much of what they are comes from who he is. In order of influence on the books, he is a literature professor, gay, and black. His books often drift between narrating a story and meditations on writing, language, memory, commerce, etc. He explores the variations of human sexuality, especially as they relate to power and social class. Later in the Neveryon series, a plague reflecting the AIDS epidemic plays an important part. The Neveryon series is fairly 'safe' for books that explore these themes, but some of his other books are very raw and sexually graphic (and for that matter, not fantasy).



____________________________
"Now I will repeatedly apply the happy-face rule"

Ezlo
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1214
Registered: 01-08-2006
IP: Logged

Can I suggest J.K. Rowling without everyone getting mad at me? If we were making a chlidren's fantasy canon then it would certainly have to be added.

And don't look at me like that, I've been yelled at before for thinking that the Harry Potter books were good.

Znirk
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 613
Registered: 07-28-2005
IP: Logged

Let me just quickly plug the Argentine Dynamic Duo: Julio Cortázar and Jorge Luis Borges. This is more the "twisted everyday life" than "mytho-heroic saga" kind of fantasy -- what little I've read of Neil Gaiman is not so distant from these two.

Mattcrampy
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2388
Registered: 05-29-2003
IP: Logged

Ezlo wrote:
Can I suggest J.K. Rowling without everyone getting mad at me? If we were making a chlidren's fantasy canon then it would certainly have to be added.

And don't look at me like that, I've been yelled at before for thinking that the Harry Potter books were good.

And they would be wrong. Rowling is definitely on the list. As many mention, Dickens was considered trash in his day, and I have no doubt that Rowling will take a similar position in the future.

I actually couldn't read much of Song of Ice and Fire. I sort of stopped caring what happened after a point.

Gaiman's definitely on the list; his influence on fantasy and, I suspect, on comics, is notable.

____________________________
What do you call an elephant at the North Pole?

UrAvgAzn
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 468
Registered: 04-15-2006
IP: Logged

The Lost Years of Merlin Epic - By T.A. Barron
Tree Girl - By T.A. Barron
The Shannara Series - By Terry Brooks
The Knights of the Silver Dragon Series - Various Authors

Some of these are kinda childrenish, but I still like them all the same.

Keep posting,

____________________________
"The leaf, still green, must someday fall.
Such grief, such joy, to live at all."
- T.A. Barron, The Lost Years of Merlin

Stephen4Louise
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 548
Registered: 04-06-2005
IP: Logged

UrAvgAzn wrote:
The Shannara Series - By Terry Brooks
Keep posting,

I'll second that one. And anyone who enjoyed the series should read the Word/Void trilogy.

Steve.

BeefontheBone
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 184
Registered: 05-11-2006
IP: Logged

I was surprised it took so long for Tad Williams to get a mention, and there's not nearly enough Ursula LeGuin mentioning going on - Ged's a wonderful protagonist, and the second book of Earthsea in particular is wonderful.

The Sandman, as well as much of Gaiman's other work, is definitely on my list; skip Preludes and Nocturnes for a bit and come back to it, it doesn't do him enough credit. Anyone who enjoys both Gaiman and Pratchett will also adore Good Omens.

Didn't notice it in my scan; Alan Garner's Alderley novels (The Weirdstone of Brisingamen et al.) are wonderful fantasy for adults and teens. For kids, I'll confess to having greatly enjoyed much of Redwall as a child; looking back, they're incredibly cute and samey, but I enjoyed them hugely at the time - Salamandastron in particular.

I for one found His Dark Materials very difficult to get into - I found myself almost totally unable to identify with the protagonist (not quite like reading The Cappucino Years after the original Adrian Moles, but close) which made for heavy going. The religion thing was less of a problem; I *used* to like Narnia when I was innocent enough to put up with the unbelievably dated dialogue and (what now is clearly) overt Christian message.

Oooh, a huge omission - Sheri S. Tepper. Great by most people's standards, and essential from a feminist standpoint (The Gate To Women's Country, anyone? I was very pleased to find a copy of that in a secondhand bookshop during a holiday trip to Dundee as a present for my mother, who had recently re-read Raising the Stones - apparently it's out of print at the moment.)

Also, shouldn't that be Lord of the Rings in the first post?

____________________________
Braindead's Mordor Site - Dungeon crawling having nothing whatsoever to do with LotR. Plus a freeware remake in-progress, featuring descriptive text written by yours truly!

Beef Row wrote: Actually, it doesn't really matter because the soap is a lye.

---

[Last edited by BeefontheBone at 06-13-2007 08:16 PM]

Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2936
Registered: 03-29-2003
IP: Logged

Stephen4Louise wrote:

UrAvgAzn wrote:
The Shannara Series - By Terry Brooks
Keep posting,

I'll second that one. And anyone who enjoyed the series should read the Word/Void trilogy.

I enjoyed the original Shannara trilogy very much, and even the Scions quatrology, but the later ones haven't been so good in my opinion. I still buy them, but don't pay as much.

And I'm an exception to your rule, as I didn't particularly enjoy the Word/Void trilogy. I'm vaguely interested in the new one, but I liked his Magic Kingdom series better than Word/Void.

Hmm, let's see, I meant to comment on some earlier choices. I've also never liked the Thomas Covenant books, but I did like the Donaldson duology about the mirrors, whose name escapes me. I liked both Zelazny chronicles, but I think I need to read them again before I decide if they are on my favorites list. And I think Rowling certainly is eligible for the list. The Hobbit was more or less a children's book, after all.

For stuff not yet mentioned, I've enjoyed Elizabeth Hayden, but not enough to put her on the "best" list either. David Farland started out okay, but has gotten Goodkind-ish in recent books. As far as fantasy comics go, the first half of Cerebus was generally good, and the original Elfquest was also excellent.

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

Mattcrampy
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2388
Registered: 05-29-2003
IP: Logged

Oneiromancer wrote:
[ I did like the Donaldson duology about the mirrors, whose name escapes me.

Mordant's Need, I think you'll find.

____________________________
What do you call an elephant at the North Pole?

BeefontheBone
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 184
Registered: 05-11-2006
IP: Logged

Robin Hobb -- the Assassin's trilogy and Fool's trilogy are great, but I didn't like the Ship trilogy that much. Her new series, which I forget the name and am running late so I won't look it up, is also shaping up to be great.

This one's about a Shaman, I believe.

____________________________
Braindead's Mordor Site - Dungeon crawling having nothing whatsoever to do with LotR. Plus a freeware remake in-progress, featuring descriptive text written by yours truly!

Beef Row wrote: Actually, it doesn't really matter because the soap is a lye.

---

[Last edited by BeefontheBone at 06-14-2007 07:31 PM]

Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2936
Registered: 03-29-2003
IP: Logged

BeefontheBone wrote:

Robin Hobb -- the Assassin's trilogy and Fool's trilogy are great, but I didn't like the Ship trilogy that much. Her new series, which I forget the name and am running late so I won't look it up, is also shaping up to be great.

This one's about a Shaman, I believe.

I suppose that's one way to put it. It's called the Soldier Son trilogy and if anything, it parallels the colonization of America and how the Native Americans were treated. There's just something about the plot twists that she uses that I enjoyed, especially in the second book, which had really intricate character interactions on the level of Stephen King's Needful Things, in my opinion.

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

Blondbeard
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1486
Registered: 03-31-2005
IP: Logged

Oneiromancer wrote:

Blondbeard wrote:
I'm absolutely shocked that no one has mentioned George R.R Martins "A song of ice and fire." The most intelligent, realistic, yet fantastic fantasy I've ever read.

Only because I hadn't woken up yet.

So officially, my favorite fantasy series are:

George R. R. Martin -- the A Song of Ice and Fire series, starting with A Game of Thrones.

This is were we really agree Otherwise our tastes diverge a bit.

Tad Williams -- the Memory, Sorrow and Thorn series, starting with The Dragonbone Chair. I also very much enjoyed his Otherland series, as well as the new Shadowmarch series, which is not yet complete.

Sure, he's good, but I think he suffers slightly from the Jordan syndrome. I never compleated Memory, Sorrow and Thorn. Otherlands was brilliant, until somewere in the middle where I fealt the books began to repeat themselves. Otherlands is still very recomendable, though. I actually enjoyed Williams book "The War of the Flowers" very much, since it was new, excitning and brilliant all the way through (kind of).

Terry Pratchett -- as previously mentioned.

Meh! I actually find the books a bit bitter and depressing. If I should come up with a cliché there doesn't seem to be anything I would call real love between any of the characters.

Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman -- the Death Gate Cycle (first book is Dragon Wing) is probably my favorite series of theirs, although I still have a soft spot in my heart for their Dragonlance books. They started out more or less typical D&D adaptation crap, but turned into much more (in my opinion--and definitely not counting spin-offs by other authors).

I really enjoyed the Death Gate Cycle, although once again I found the first half of the series to be the best.

Some authors I have a love/hate relationship with:

Robert Jordan -- because The Wheel of Time is going on forever, although at least book 11 was a return to form. I still love the first 5 books, the later ones can't take those from me.

An ultra condensed version of a later Jordan book.

Terry Goodkind -- again, the first two books of his Sword of Truth series are among my favorites, but they quickly degenerated. There were some good parts, and I did enjoy Faith of the Fallen more than most of the other later ones, but this is one of the few series that I started buying in hardcover and then switched to softcover because I wouldn't pay full price any more.

I really agree here. I might add that the author (IMO) feels crazy. The "good guys" actually enjoys to torture people to death in the most gruesome way possible. For fun.

David Eddings -- as someone above said, read one series of his, you've read them all. It's really sad how similar they are, but I'll have a soft spot for my first reading of the Belgariad. I haven't re-read these in a very long time though.

Blech! Sure, it's entertaining, and I enjoyed reading the books, but... this is fantastic junkfood if anything is. If you like Eddings I would recomand you to move on to David Gemmel, and Louis McMaster Bujold. They (IMO) have everything Eddings have, but are so much "better".

An English summary of the Belgariad which made me laugh (no, it isn't really a spoiler, but I'll post it within secret tags anyway.)

More recent authors that I like, but aren't on my favorites list:

Robin Hobb -- the Assassin's trilogy and Fool's trilogy are great, but I didn't like the Ship trilogy that much. Her new series, which I forget the name and am running late so I won't look it up, is also shaping up to be great.

I like the Ship triology the best. Hobb is (IMO) an uneven author. Most of what is in her books is very good, but some parts are just terrible.

---

[Last edited by Blondbeard at 06-15-2007 10:24 AM]

Briareos
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 3516
Registered: 08-07-2005
IP: Logged

Blondbeard wrote:

Terry Pratchett -- as previously mentioned.

Meh! I actually find the books a bit bitter and depressing. If I should come up with a cliché there doesn't seem to be anything I would call real love between any of the characters.

And thank $DEITY for that... I prefer a fun story over annoying romance every day of the week.

____________________________
"I'm not anti-anything, I'm anti-everything, it fits better." - Sole
R.I.P. Robert Feldhoff (1962-2009)

Blondbeard
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1486
Registered: 03-31-2005
IP: Logged

I don't mean anything romantic. That's not what I want to read. Hmm... Maybe I should have used the word "warmth" instead. I meant the word in the sense that a child can love his/her parents.

eytanz
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2708
Registered: 02-05-2003
IP: Logged

Blondbeard wrote:

Tad Williams -- the Memory, Sorrow and Thorn series, starting with The Dragonbone Chair. I also very much enjoyed his Otherland series, as well as the new Shadowmarch series, which is not yet complete.

Sure, he's good, but I think he suffers slightly from the Jordan syndrome. I never compleated Memory, Sorrow and Thorn. Otherlands was brilliant, until somewere in the middle where I fealt the books began to repeat themselves. Otherlands is still very recomendable, though.

I wouldn't call it "Jordan syndrome", since Williams is more than capable of writing a satisfying ending. It's true that his beginnings and ends are better than his middles - at least in his earlier books, the plot tend to stall somewhat for a while, but when they pick up again they are great. The ending of Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn was probably the best part of these novels, but it's true that getting there felt like a chore occasionally. Still, Otherworld was better in that respect, and War of the Flowers was indeed excellent, so I'm hoping he's getting better at this - I haven't started reading Shadowmarch yet (I don't buy trilogies until they are complete, I hate having to wait for the next book), but I have high hopes for it.

Oh, and a a recommendation I forgot earlier -

Tim Powers - He's a bit uneven, but when he's good, he's wonderful. His novels are accounts of real world history with magic written in. I strongly recommend Declare, Last Call, and The Drawing of the Dark. The Anubis Gates is also very good. Expiration Date I felt to be less successful, and Earthquake Weather - which is a sequel to both Last Call and Expiration Date, tying the two plotlines together - was one of those annoying sequels whose premise relies on undoing some of what was satisfying about the first book. He has a new book out which I haven't read yet.

____________________________
I got my avatar back! Yay!

Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2936
Registered: 03-29-2003
IP: Logged

eytanz wrote:

Blondbeard wrote:

Tad Williams -- the Memory, Sorrow and Thorn series, starting with The Dragonbone Chair. I also very much enjoyed his Otherland series, as well as the new Shadowmarch series, which is not yet complete.

Sure, he's good, but I think he suffers slightly from the Jordan syndrome. I never compleated Memory, Sorrow and Thorn. Otherlands was brilliant, until somewere in the middle where I fealt the books began to repeat themselves. Otherlands is still very recomendable, though.

I wouldn't call it "Jordan syndrome", since Williams is more than capable of writing a satisfying ending. It's true that his beginnings and ends are better than his middles - at least in his earlier books, the plot tend to stall somewhat for a while, but when they pick up again they are great. The ending of Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn was probably the best part of these novels, but it's true that getting there felt like a chore occasionally. Still, Otherworld was better in that respect, and War of the Flowers was indeed excellent, so I'm hoping he's getting better at this - I haven't started reading Shadowmarch yet (I don't buy trilogies until they are complete, I hate having to wait for the next book), but I have high hopes for it.

Good answer, Eytan. I really don't see how Williams has a "Jordan syndrome" when he actually finishes his series! MST has always been slow...whenever I give it to someone to read I warn them that they need 200 pages or so before it starts getting exciting. I guess I don't think that the middle MST book is as slow as the middle Otherland books...I think he could have kept Otherland to 3 books if he really tried. Anyway, I still count MST among the best fantasy of the last 30 years, and it was probably my #1 before Martin started his series.

And Eytan, in my opinion your hopes for Shadowmarch are well-founded, as I don't have much to complain about except that he didn't include a synopsis at the beginning of the second book so I had to read the first one over again when it came out. But I enjoy re-reading books so I guess I shouldn't complain so much.

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams