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Jacob
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File: The Goblin.hold (40.2 KB)
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icon The Goblin (+3)  
Here's the latest hold I've been working on.
It's called "The Goblin" because the entire hold contains only *one* monster (it has some wubbas, but I'm pretty sure they're not counted as monsters).
It's therefore a good illustration of the use of the Conquer token and hopefully of many of the new TCB elements.

Thanks in advance for any feedback.

Edit: Curses! Wubbas count as monsters.

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[Last edited by Jacob at 10-15-2007 01:37 PM]
06-06-2007 at 11:44 PM
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Tim
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File: TG Outer Defenses Misc.demo (5.7 KB)
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icon Re: The Goblin (+1)  
Here are some (about 6) demos for the first level. Personally I think they are all unintentional (but then, I can be lying).

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06-07-2007 at 01:50 AM
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jbluestein
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icon Re: The Goblin (+1)  
The first level is pretty good. I've solved all but 1S3E so far.

Comments:

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Josh

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06-07-2007 at 12:55 PM
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Pilchard VIII
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icon Re: The Goblin (+1)  
In that room on the first level with the two mimic NPCs, the 2x4 blob of tar and the decoy potion, you can just place the decoy potion on the conquer token (I'm using 3.0.0)

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06-07-2007 at 01:18 PM
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Jacob
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icon Re: The Goblin (0)  
See, it's just as well I started getting some testing early. Some very silly unintended solutions.

Planned fixes (will hold off until I've had some more bug reports):
3E: Trapdoor under conquer token.
1S2E: Bottom section with orb/mimic etc shielded from bomb blast (e.g. surrounded by walls), forcing you to keep the mimic alive and not drop the red doors (I think)
1N3E: N-pointing arrow at 2nd passage along, so you can't come back down that way. Avoids Tim's simplified solution.
!S1E: Clearly the intention was for the clone to be put on the eastmost pressure plate. Unintended solution could be avoided by making the western corridor much longer, so that it fills with wubbas before the clone can get to the Conquer token.

Apart from that, the solutions are fine. The rooms are meant to be fairly easy in the first level.

Thanks for the comments so far.


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06-07-2007 at 01:53 PM
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jbluestein
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icon Re: The Goblin (0)  
An interesting behavior that I think may be a bug. Noticed this in Level 2: Entrance.

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[EDIT: Looks like this one is already fixed in 3.0.2.]

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[Last edited by jbluestein at 06-07-2007 02:08 PM]
06-07-2007 at 02:07 PM
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jbluestein
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icon Re: The Goblin (0)  
Is it actually possible to drop the black door in The Flooded Repository: 1N2E?

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Josh

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06-07-2007 at 03:23 PM
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jbluestein
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File: TG The Briar Patch 2E Victory.demo (1.4 KB)
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icon Re: The Goblin (+1)  
Possible unintended solution in Briar Patch: 2E.

Might be intended, though. It just doesn't make use of all of the room elements...

Josh

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06-07-2007 at 04:47 PM
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Jacob
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icon Re: The Goblin (0)  
jbluestein wrote:
Is it actually possible to drop the black door in The Flooded Repository: 1N2E?

I don't think so. This is just there as a red herring/joke.

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06-07-2007 at 05:39 PM
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jbluestein
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icon Re: The Goblin (0)  
Level 3: Briar Patch is a pretty difficult level in a lot of ways.

I've managed to solve most of the rooms, but three are still eluding me:

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06-08-2007 at 02:23 AM
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Jacob
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icon Re: The Goblin (0)  
Well done for getting all but 3. Grrr. 2E was my pride and joy...not sure how to fix that.

4E:
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1S2E:
Click here to view the secret text
Click here to view the secret text



2N3E:
Click here to view the secret text


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06-08-2007 at 10:44 AM
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Geiler Hengst
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icon Re: The Goblin (0)  
in level1 2E: where ad how can i go somewhere when coming from north? It seems impossible to get anywhere...
06-08-2007 at 12:31 PM
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jbluestein
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Geiler Hengst wrote:
in level1 2E: where ad how can i go somewhere when coming from north? It seems impossible to get anywhere...

Coming in from the north, I think I always had to exit west and come back in. Note that you don't need to drop the red doors to go west.

Josh

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06-08-2007 at 01:21 PM
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Geiler Hengst
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icon Re: The Goblin (0)  
oh sweet thx...
06-08-2007 at 01:24 PM
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jbluestein
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Jacob wrote:
Well done for getting all but 3. Grrr. 2E was my pride and joy...not sure how to fix that.
Turns out it was four -- I missed a secret room (but it was pretty easily solvable).

1S2E:
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Click here to view the secret text


Got this one, anyway...

So just two to go!

Josh

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06-09-2007 at 06:42 PM
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jbluestein
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icon Re: The Goblin (0)  
Got 'em all.

I thought that Briar Patch: 2N3E was actually a pretty good room -- I just wasn't thinking about it properly.

Now on to the Finale

...

...

Holy Crow.

Josh

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06-09-2007 at 07:54 PM
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jbluestein
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icon Re: The Goblin (0)  
Regarding the Finale room:

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Josh

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06-10-2007 at 03:12 PM
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Jacob
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icon Re: The Goblin (0)  
Yes. But note that 1E is not required.

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06-10-2007 at 09:39 PM
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jbluestein
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Jacob wrote:
Yes. But note that 1E is not required.

A good point.

OK, I solved the Finale. Quite an impressive room.

Six entries was the best I could see to do.

I'm not sure if my solution is the best or not, but here's how I did it:

Click here to view the secret text



So how'd I do?

Josh


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06-11-2007 at 02:28 AM
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Jacob
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icon Re: The Goblin (0)  
I'm not sure I understand your notation. Yes, Labelling from the first entrance clockwise but then...
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For starters, I don't know how you get from 1 or 2 to exit at 6.
My intended solution requires
Click here to view the secret text
playthroughs, using all the subrooms.

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06-12-2007 at 07:01 PM
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jbluestein
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Jacob wrote:
I'm not sure I understand your notation. Yes, Labelling from the first entrance clockwise but then...
Click here to view the secret text

For starters, I don't know how you get from 1 or 2 to exit at 6.
My intended solution requires
Click here to view the secret text
playthroughs, using all the subrooms.

Sorry, my implication was that if I enter from 6 on my second entry, then I exit via 6 on my first exit.

Here's a more detailed account of how I did it:

Click here to view the secret text


I should note that I originally approached this room differently:

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Josh

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06-12-2007 at 07:17 PM
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Tim
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icon Re: The Goblin (0)  
I need a hint for Flooded 1N. :)

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06-12-2007 at 10:03 PM
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jbluestein
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Tim wrote:
I need a hint for Flooded 1N. :)

Two major items in that room. Not sure which one you need, so here they both are:

If you're having trouble getting to the speed potion:
Click here to view the secret text


If you're unsure which of the blobs needs to be mud:
Click here to view the secret text


If you need more, let me know!

Josh

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06-12-2007 at 10:52 PM
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Tim
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jbluestein wrote:
If you need more, let me know!
I think I need a demo. The main thing is that I can't seem to get rid of the big patch correctly. (The large blob before the orb part.)

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06-12-2007 at 11:13 PM
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jbluestein
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File: TG The Flooded Repository 1N Victory.demo (1.7 KB)
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Tim wrote:
jbluestein wrote:
If you need more, let me know!
I think I need a demo. The main thing is that I can't seem to get rid of the big patch correctly. (The large blob before the orb part.)

It took me a lot of tries. Here's my demo.

Josh

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06-12-2007 at 11:42 PM
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Tim
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File: TG Tim The Flooded Repository 1N Victory.demo (1.7 KB)
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icon Re: The Goblin (0)  
Thanks. Got it.

Here's my demo. I did it the other way though.

Wondering which one is the intended solution.

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06-12-2007 at 11:58 PM
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jbluestein
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Tim wrote:
Thanks. Got it.

Here's my demo. I did it the other way though.

Wondering which one is the intended solution.

Interesting...maybe they're both intended?

Josh

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06-13-2007 at 01:00 AM
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Jacob
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Update (top post): Changed rooms are
Outer Defences - 1S1E, 1S2E, 1N3E, 3E
The Briar Patch - 2E
Finale - 1E

New room: The Flooded Repository - 2N

Intended number of takes for the Finale:
Click here to view the secret text


As for the gel cutting rooms: I worked out an algorithm for cutting gel, but turns out it only works for a subtype of gel (still it's handy to use if you happen to get that subtype). One of the two blocks in 1N is clearable and the other isn't, using
this algorithm. But, since the algorithm doesn't define cuttability for all gel, it turns out both are clearable. I didn't fully appreciate this when I first made the room, but felt it was worth keeping anyway. Gel's difficult to get a good algorithm for, since you can clear either 2 or 3 enclosed points (by Watcher's definition) depending on where you cut. My algorithm only works for removing 3 points at a time (and therefore for gel with a point count that is a multiple of 3).

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06-16-2007 at 11:47 PM
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jbluestein
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Jacob wrote:
Update (top post): Changed rooms are
Outer Defences - 1S1E, 1S2E, 1N3E, 3E
The Briar Patch - 2E
Finale - 1E

Outer Defenses: 3E is still trivially solvable by placing the decoy on the conquer token. (It's a pressure plate, probably should be a trapdoor.)

Josh

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06-17-2007 at 11:34 AM
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jbluestein
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I think I understand the intended solution for Briar Patch: 2E now. Clever. All the other changed (and new) rooms look good. Haven't retried the Finale yet, though.

Josh

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06-17-2007 at 11:46 AM
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