bandit1200
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 290
Registered: 10-29-2003
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Well, from the obvious enthusiasm of other players, it's definitely me.

You're probably wondering what the heck I'm talking about, huh? Or maybe not. But anyway, I find that I am not playing TCB to the exclusion of doing practically anything else, like I did with all previous versions of DROD. And I wonder why. Is it because I'm older? Because I've been ill? Or - gasp.. sacrilege! - because I'm not finding TCB to be as interesting as previous incarnations?

Actually, I think the puzzles are just as good as ever, but I find the story gets in the way. I appreciate that most others like the story and are quite taken by the whole "Eighth" thing, but to be honest it bores me to death. Often, when I feel like a game for relaxation, I'll play either the freeware version (1.6?) or the original Webfoot version, because I like the simplicity of the earlier games. Maybe I'm becoming a bit of a Luddite in my old age.

Anyway, I'm just ruminating whilst waiting for a job to arrive, but you can be sure I will still enjoy the game and eventually play it through to the end.

NiroZ
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1302
Registered: 02-12-2006
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So is there anyone that could have been done that could have made TCB more enjoyable for you, without hacking away the story? And how far have you gotten? I admit that there was a point where it lulled for me as well.

eytanz
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2708
Registered: 02-05-2003
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Bandit - I'm curious - is it not sufficient for you to just skip the story?

This is a serious question - I'm really not sure how effective the ability to speed through cutscenes and skip speech is at making the story less obtrusive for those who don't like it, given that you still have to go through all the story rooms like everyone else. So I'd appreciate feedback on this...

(Obviously, this is not effective for people who are interested in having a story but don't like our writing/pacing/whatever. But our hope in the dev team was that hopefully, allowing players to skip story scenes will be enough for the people who don't want a story at all)

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jdyer
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 329
Registered: 03-19-2003
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eytanz wrote:
Bandit - I'm curious - is it not sufficient for you to just skip the story?

Given some of the events that take place require you to listen to what a character is saying and take actions accordingly, I'm not sure how you could "skip the story".

For me it's a simple matter of difficulty that's making it not as addictive. I'm getting stalled a lot more than I was with the other two games, so I can't play at a full-on clip. I am ok with this.

NiroZ
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1302
Registered: 02-12-2006
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jdyer wrote:

eytanz wrote:
Bandit - I'm curious - is it not sufficient for you to just skip the story?

Given some of the events that take place require you to listen to what a character is saying and take actions accordingly, I'm not sure how you could "skip the story".

For me it's a simple matter of difficulty that's making it not as addictive. I'm getting stalled a lot more than I was with the other two games, so I can't play at a full-on clip. I am ok with this.

I think I got stalled more with the other games, but the fact that you could meter your progression based on the level names was rather motivating. With TCB, I didn't know how much further I had to go.

Mikko
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 276
Registered: 02-04-2003
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One problem is that it is not at all obvious how to skip the cutscenes. I only found it out here on the forum. The story elements mostly didn't bother me, though, so I wasn't actively searching for a way to skip them.

bandit1200
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 290
Registered: 10-29-2003
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NiroZ wrote:
So is there anyone that could have been done that could have made TCB more enjoyable for you, without hacking away the story? And how far have you gotten? I admit that there was a point where it lulled for me as well.

There's probably nothing could have been done to make it more enjoyable, as the element I enjoy, the puzzles themselves, are accessible enough. I'm up to Archival Catacombs, 3S1W to be precise. I haven't attempted the room yet, but, for reasons not up for discussion here, it's a type of room I find difficult and may even have subconsciously prompted my post. Maybe when I get back to the game and whizz straight through this one my attitude may change.

eytanz wrote:Bandit - I'm curious - is it not sufficient for you to just skip the story?

Probably, but am I not likely to miss something that relates to what I need to do at a later time? The voices aren't a problem as I have all sound turned off.

edit: Because I replied without reading through.

Niroz wrote:I think I got stalled more with the other games, but the fact that you could meter your progression based on the level names was rather motivating. With TCB, I didn't know how much further I had to go.

Yes, there is that about it. I have no idea at all how far I am into the game. The dialogue sometimes gives hints, but I don't know whether Beethro might decide to make another detour.

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[Last edited by bandit1200 at 04-20-2007 03:53 PM]

eytanz
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2708
Registered: 02-05-2003
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As a rough guideline for overall progress, the game is divided into three parts, each of roughly the same size -

part 1: From the first gate (start of game) to the second gate

part 2: from the second gate (second half of city) to the third gate

part 3: Beyond the third gate

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Someone Else
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1305
Registered: 06-14-2005
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Wow. I find the story to be the best part of TCB.

NiroZ
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1302
Registered: 02-12-2006
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eytanz wrote:
As a rough guideline for overall progress, the game is divided into three parts, each of roughly the same size -

part 1: From the first gate (start of game) to the second gate

part 2: from the second gate (second half of city) to the third gate

part 3: Beyond the third gate

To be precise, There are 9 puzzle levels in Part 1, 5 Puzzle levels in Part 2, and 6 Puzzle levels in Part 3. Plus the extra level at the end of each section, there's 22 puzzle levels altogether.

Pinnacle
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1129
Registered: 06-10-2004
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NiroZ wrote:

eytanz wrote:
As a rough guideline for overall progress, the game is divided into three parts, each of roughly the same size -

part 1: From the first gate (start of game) to the second gate

part 2: from the second gate (second half of city) to the third gate

part 3: Beyond the third gate

To be precise, There are 9 puzzle levels in Part 1, 5 Puzzle levels in Part 2, and 6 Puzzle levels in Part 3. Plus the extra level at the end of each section, there's 22 puzzle levels altogether.

*goes to count them*
23 actually, including two Interludes.
QfK to HV is the first part (11 levels)
AC to I:AGEV is the second part (6 levels)
FR to LP is the third part (6 levels)

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Once (adv.): Enough.
Twice (adv.): Once too often.
~Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

Rabscuttle
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2460
Registered: 09-10-2004
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Right, I'm numbering these wretched levels. It's not so much that the levels aren't descriptive, it's that I continually have no idea what the acronyms are for. RH = Rooted Hold? garggh!


spoilers etc.


Although maybe Tutorial Rooms should count as the first level? That makes a nice round twenty five.

Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2936
Registered: 03-29-2003
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I think you skipped from 11th to 13th there, Rabscuttle. Once you fix that, it should be a good reference point, actually.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

Krishh
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 282
Registered: 06-05-2004
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He counts The City as 12th, since that's when the puzzle part of it takes place.

Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2936
Registered: 03-29-2003
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Whoops, I see it there at the beginning. Okay. I guess it might be better to list levels that the player returns to, but that's just me.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

Knightmare44
Level: Roachling
Rank Points: 13
Registered: 05-02-2005
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I absolutely love the cutscenes & story in the new drod.. it's a huge motivator for me to keep playing, much as I would without them anyway.

HopelessAmateur
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 177
Registered: 11-05-2004
IP: Logged

It's not just you. I am in the Grand Library 5n8w. I didn't follow exactly why I am here. I have no idea if I am supposed to do something here. When do I get to kill something? What do I do here? Why is it that the hints and solutions board only goes as far as 1N?
Has everyone who has been left in this room known exactly what they were supposed to do?

TCB? more like WTF?

Let me at them roaches etc!

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[Last edited by HopelessAmateur at 02-04-2008 10:23 PM]

Sillyman
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 339
Registered: 09-08-2006
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Methinks should be counted as level 25. It is a puzzle level, after all. So... 25 levels, like any other DROD game... Onos!

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FNORD

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[Last edited by Sillyman at 02-04-2008 10:33 PM]

Mr. Slice
Level: Disabled
Rank Points: 140
Registered: 10-26-2007
IP: Logged

____________________________
"To see or to hear is to know, but to
do is to understand"

HopelessAmateur
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 177
Registered: 11-05-2004
IP: Logged

Mr. Slice wrote:

Click here to view the secret text

×You've done all you can do here. Just go down the stairs and go into the Uncturage.

Click here to view the secret text

×Once you finish Deep Uncturage, you can go back to the library.

Cool. Thanks.

kingpr
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 29
Registered: 02-04-2003
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I don't think it is just you either. The story scenes don't interest me but I never know if there is some useful information I am missing by skipping them. So I have spent a large amount of time wandering aimlessly backwards and forwards trying to find where to go next which I found tedious.

But also I thought that the progression in levels wasn't as enjoyable in previous versions. I felt there were too many rooms where the strategy was clear from the outset but achieving it was frankly boring (yet another tar/gel/mud mother to be killed using the same trick 3 times over and no save point so you have to do the whole lot over again). I am nearing the end (on lowest level - or whatever it's called) and I don't find the difference between that and the previous level that significant, still these stupid builders wandering around aimlessly and rather randomly by the look of it.

Now I'm not knocking the game that's unfair. I should treat it as a hold which simply doesn't appeal to me and recognise that there are others for whom this will be just their thing. But I find that the best holds available are where there is a clear sense of direction and a good progression with the puzzles. A trick or feature is introduced and then you build on it as you go from room to room. Obviously a lot of work and effort has gone into this and the story line will be a big thing for some, but not for me I'm afraid.