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zonhin
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File: Zonhins Tutorial.hold (15.5 KB)
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icon Well... (+3)  
I replaced the original with the revised version.

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And cut myself a slice of sunshine pie
I danced with the peanut butterflies
Till time went and told me to say hello but wave goodbye

[Last edited by zonhin at 03-27-2007 06:24 AM]
03-26-2007 at 02:39 AM
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TripleM
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icon Re: Well... (0)  
Bug #1: you haven't attached it.
Heh, don't worry, you're not the only one to do that, it happens all the time.
03-26-2007 at 02:45 AM
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noma
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icon Re: Well... (0)  
I look forward to trying out your hold, but I have to disagree with your first statement. There are good tutorial holds out there. Two of Larry Murk's holds come to mind: Odd Jobs Novice and DROD Learning Zone.
03-26-2007 at 02:57 AM
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coppro
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icon Re: Well... (0)  
And the SmS, Smitemastery 101. It's actually pretty good, though it doesn't explain everything.
03-26-2007 at 03:08 AM
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zonhin
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icon Re: Well... (0)  
I attached the file. :rolleyes
Also, DROD learning zone was the reason I decided to make this in the first place. It just wasn't very good.

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I looked at the world through apple eyes
And cut myself a slice of sunshine pie
I danced with the peanut butterflies
Till time went and told me to say hello but wave goodbye

[Last edited by zonhin at 03-26-2007 03:32 AM]
03-26-2007 at 03:28 AM
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Jatopian
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noma wrote:
I look forward to trying out your hold, but I have to disagree with your first statement. There are good tutorial holds out there. Two of Larry Murk's holds come to mind: Odd Jobs Novice and DROD Learning Zone.
Have you actually played those? The first is not a tutorial, just a fairly easy hold; the latter is misinformative.

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03-26-2007 at 03:55 AM
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noma
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Jatopian wrote:
noma wrote:
I look forward to trying out your hold, but I have to disagree with your first statement. There are good tutorial holds out there. Two of Larry Murk's holds come to mind: Odd Jobs Novice and DROD Learning Zone.
Have you actually played those? The first is not a tutorial, just a fairly easy hold; the latter is misinformative.
Actually yes, I've played both and played them recently as I've only been playing DROD a little over 3 months. I will also assert that I significantly improved my skills by doing so. Perhaps Odd Jobs isn't a tutorial hold per se, but it is simple enough so that you gain confidence and try new things.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say that DLZ is misinformative. All I know is I learned a lot playing it and would recommend it to other newbies. I would also recommend KDD to those who find JtRH a little too challenging. I actually got to level 12 in JtRH without learning about backslashing and backstepping! A room that I absolutely could not beat (2N, 2E) made me realize I seriously needed some serious skills training.

KDD, DROD Learning Zone and Odd Jobs Novice gave me those skills, not only allowing to beat that room, but to complete JtRH. I know I have a long way to go until I'm in the "big leagues" -- and may never get there -- but I have to acknowledge the help I've received to get where I am now, which is the top 100.

[Last edited by noma at 03-26-2007 04:49 AM]
03-26-2007 at 04:47 AM
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noma
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Hi zonhin. I've played to the end of Floor Five. Good work! You really have gone back to basics and I'm looking forward to playing through to the end of the hold.

A suggestion: on Floor 5, in the Entrance or 1 South, perhaps you could add a scroll that explains how clicking on an orb will show you what it controls and how: i.e. red for close, green for open and orange for toggle. Also, just a thought: all the extra orbs might be a little overwhelming for a newbie.

I've attached a file with the scroll typos I found (you did ask after all.) As I play through more levels I'll add more (if you still want me to and others don't send them first.)

Thanks for doing this. Newbies everywhere will rejoice. Well, at least on this forum.



[Last edited by noma at 03-26-2007 03:43 PM : removed attachment]
03-26-2007 at 06:01 AM
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zonhin
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File: Zonhins Tutorial.hold (12.4 KB)
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icon Re: Well... (+1)  
Thanks, glad you liked it. I corrected all of the spelling mistakes you listed. I'll wait until you're done before posting it though. Also, I think levels 10 and 11 are a bit hard, so I'll fix those too.

Edit: Also the current last level NEEDs to be replaced.

Edit No. 2: I was way too lazy in levels 10+. So I've fixed all the stupid mistakes I'd made in those levels.

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I looked at the world through apple eyes
And cut myself a slice of sunshine pie
I danced with the peanut butterflies
Till time went and told me to say hello but wave goodbye

[Last edited by zonhin at 03-26-2007 08:44 AM]
03-26-2007 at 07:54 AM
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Jeff_Ray...
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icon Re: Well... (0)  
Also, on the Snakes level, serpents don't wear pants. :P

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I make Let's Plays too!
Click here to find out my LPs' progress, and find out what I plan to tackle next!

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My Holds:
-Completed:
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-Work in Progress:
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03-26-2007 at 02:21 PM
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noma
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File: Notes6-end.rtf (8.2 KB)
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icon Re: Well... (+1)  
Finished. See attached or secreted text for my comments and thanks again for taking this on.
Click here to view the secret text


[Last edited by noma at 03-26-2007 08:58 PM]
03-26-2007 at 05:12 PM
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Kevin_P86
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Is there any particular reason you are attaching .doc files with nothing but the simplest formatting, all of which is supported by the forum?

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+++++[>+++++<-]>[>+++>++++>+++++<<<-]>.>+.>-------.<++++.+++++.
03-26-2007 at 06:07 PM
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noma
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icon Re: Well... (0)  
3 reasons:
1. Didn't want to make a long long post
2. Thought it might be easier for an architect to use a WP program for viewing comments: in case he/she wants to work on it while not connected to the internet, or increase the font size, or whatever.
3. I find it easier to bold, underline or colour text using Word than the forum commands.

But as I've never built a proper hold yet, others will know better than me. What is preferred? Attached .doc for comments/edits or in-thread notes? In the meantime, I will edit my post to include notes as secret text.

[Last edited by noma at 03-26-2007 06:36 PM]
03-26-2007 at 06:30 PM
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Kevin_P86
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noma wrote:
What is preferred? Attached .doc for comments/edits or in-thread notes? In the meantime, I will edit my post to include notes as secret text.
First and most importantly, .doc files are almost entirely exclusive to windows. By attaching it, you are assuming that everyone has or has access to windows, which is certainly not the case. If you must attach such a file, .rtf is a better choice.

Second, .doc files are quite large in size compared to other similar formats (such as .rtf).

And Third, if someone would like to have access to your list offline, they can always copy the text from your message and paste it into their favourite text editor. Such a list is still very understandable and readable even without any such formatting.

So in conclusion, if you must attach such a file, .rtf is a much better choice.

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03-26-2007 at 08:30 PM
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noma
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Fixed. I think though, you meant "Microsoft Word" not "windows". I use Mac and have no trouble opening .doc files, but then... :P I have Word.
03-26-2007 at 09:00 PM
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Banjooie
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Kevin_P86 wrote:
First and most importantly, .doc files are almost entirely exclusive to windows. By attaching it, you are assuming that everyone has or has access to windows, .

Sup. Word is on Mac. Also, Open Office, which opens .doc files. Even for Linux!
03-26-2007 at 10:45 PM
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zonhin
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Here it is, new and improved.

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I looked at the world through apple eyes
And cut myself a slice of sunshine pie
I danced with the peanut butterflies
Till time went and told me to say hello but wave goodbye

[Last edited by zonhin at 03-26-2007 11:21 PM]
03-26-2007 at 11:00 PM
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zonhin
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File: Zonhins Tutorial.hold (15.3 KB)
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icon Re: Well... (+1)  
Added potion level.

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I looked at the world through apple eyes
And cut myself a slice of sunshine pie
I danced with the peanut butterflies
Till time went and told me to say hello but wave goodbye
03-26-2007 at 11:22 PM
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golfrman
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icon Re: Well... (0)  
i for some reason can't seem to clear all the tar on level 9 1N, it frustrates me! hints? :)

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03-27-2007 at 01:30 AM
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zonhin
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File: Zonhins Tutorial.hold (15.4 KB)
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icon Re: Well... (0)  
Oops, I didn't know it was unsolveable.

Edit: Fixed.

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I looked at the world through apple eyes
And cut myself a slice of sunshine pie
I danced with the peanut butterflies
Till time went and told me to say hello but wave goodbye

[Last edited by zonhin at 03-27-2007 01:33 AM]
03-27-2007 at 01:32 AM
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noma
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Wow, you're quick at revisions! I just finished playing twice more from top to bottom and couldn't find any bugs or unsolveable rooms. I like the changes you've made. The rooms that were way too easy are a bit more challenging. The secret rooms are more conquerable for a newbie and they also reinforce the lessons.

Something you might want to add: a lesson on backswiping and backstepping to kill monsters, especially roaches. I don't think this is too obvious to newbies. Okay, well it wasn't for me. Just a thought.

Good work. I think you have achieved an excellent tutorial hold for beginners.

Scroll notes below:
Click here to view the secret text

03-27-2007 at 02:43 AM
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zonhin
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icon Re: Well... (0)  
Fixed. I'm posting it in holds right now.

Huh... I can't seem to find a way to submit it. Any help?

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I looked at the world through apple eyes
And cut myself a slice of sunshine pie
I danced with the peanut butterflies
Till time went and told me to say hello but wave goodbye

[Last edited by zonhin at 03-27-2007 02:56 AM]
03-27-2007 at 02:53 AM
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TripleM
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icon Re: Well... (0)  
You may want to read this.
03-27-2007 at 04:20 AM
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Oneiromancer
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icon Re: Well... (0)  
Basically, you need to make sure the hold in the first post of this thread is the latest one, and there should be a link near the top of the thread to let you upload it for the HA's consideration. Then you'll have a link in your Profile to the discussion for the hold as the HAs look it over.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams
03-27-2007 at 05:42 AM
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zonhin
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icon Re: Well... (0)  
Thanks.

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I looked at the world through apple eyes
And cut myself a slice of sunshine pie
I danced with the peanut butterflies
Till time went and told me to say hello but wave goodbye
03-27-2007 at 06:16 AM
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zonhin
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icon Re: Well... (0)  
Also, noma, thanks for all the testing.

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I looked at the world through apple eyes
And cut myself a slice of sunshine pie
I danced with the peanut butterflies
Till time went and told me to say hello but wave goodbye
03-27-2007 at 06:50 AM
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Someone Else
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icon Re: Well... (0)  
A couple insignificant things:
Bombs blow up things three squares away, not five like it says in the tutorial.
Wubbas also move diagonal towards you whenever they can.
In the tunnel room, maybe you should say 'Beethro' instead of 'your guy'.
In the snake level, maybe you should show how serpents can't go on force arrows or scrolls.
I think wubba and golem movement is identical.
The door is called 'master wall' not secret door.

This is great! It outlines everything you need to know about DROD objects, and is quick too!
03-27-2007 at 07:15 AM
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zonhin
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It's too late, I think, I already submitted it.

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I looked at the world through apple eyes
And cut myself a slice of sunshine pie
I danced with the peanut butterflies
Till time went and told me to say hello but wave goodbye
03-27-2007 at 07:21 AM
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Someone Else
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Oh.

Oh well then, they weren't major.
03-27-2007 at 07:28 AM
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Jason
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I think you should still be able to change it by just loading on a new version where you did the first...

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03-27-2007 at 07:50 AM
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