Tim
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I'm just speechless...

Wow.

Just a stupid question, is it possible in anyway for architects to detect which version of TCB is installed? (with all those new additional monsters and so on this is going to be so much more interesting...)

coppro
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Probably not, but files (demo, player, hold) are marked with the version of the file format, which could be increased every time a new object was added. So if you imported something that had an unknown element, DROD might say "This hold is for a version newer than this one. Would you like to see if a new version is available?" and then check online and possibly launch an update agent.

Or it might just complain, leaving the hold-user to find such a version if it exists.

Beef Row
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coppro wrote:
I hope that it's moderated in some form. While our current community may not need a lot of moderation, anyone with DROD might join the chat, not just forum frequenters.

Speaking of Moderated chats.... I think it would be an absolutely brilliant idea if there were a special chat channel available while testing beta holds, much as there are special beta forums. Then people testing a beta hold could give realtime feedback to other players and the architect.

Of course, I have no idea if the current plan is to implement multiple chat 'channels', or a single communal chat, and if its the latter, beta-chats may be too hard to do. But if there are already channels of some sort planned, I think this would be one of the best available uses for them.

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NiroZ
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Well they did say private chat didn't they?

Jatopian
Level: Smitemaster
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I have an unmentioned reason for disliking the chat. Most likely the most common use of chat will be to request room help. The help given will not be properly archived, and thus cannot be found in our forum by future newbies.
I also wish to echo the sentiments that interaction quality will likely deteriorate.

NiroZ wrote:

ErikH2000 wrote:
Now, the other thing that will make Smitemaster's Selections very interesting is our plans to release some of them simultaneously with one or two new elements added to the game engine. You will no longer need to patiently wait two years for a release of the next full-length DROD game to play with new monsters, traps, obstacles, and other gameplay devices. We'll start to see some Selections released that showcase new game elements added to the engine.

Ah, so their more like expansion packs?

... I foresee potential for problems (always alliterate, amigos). This could mean that anyone who wants to play a new fan hold must pay for the SS, just to get the new element(s). This is the kind of thing that annoys me with TV: They bundle in extra crap with what one really wants, then make one pay for the extra.

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eytanz
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I really don't forsee that the public chat will see much use. I think the main usage of the chat will be as follows:

- Private chat between friends.
- Tech support with caravel people to address bugs/problems.
- People walking each other through room solutions when general hints don't work.

I really don't think it will have any negative impact - remember, especially, that only *paid Caravelnet members* get it, which means the membership is pretty self-selecing - but I don't think it will have much of a positive impact, either. I think it will have far less impact than both naysayers and supporters think it will.

I foresee potential for problems (always alliterate, amigos). This could mean that anyone who wants to play a new fan hold must pay for the SS, just to get the new element(s). This is the kind of thing that annoys me with TV: They bundle in extra crap with what one really wants, then make one pay for the extra.

Given that Caravel currently gives out all the features for free, and charges only for content, and given that Erik said *nothing* about that changing, this fear is totally unfounded. I think the most likely thing to happen is that the exact same model remains - new features released for free - but now they are released incrementally, with small holds highlighting the new feature - rather than all at once, with a big JtRH/TCB size hold.

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silver
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We can even have a Smitemaster's Selection where the main character is someone besides Beethro.

you mean a hold, maybe? or will this be reserved for SmSs? (if so, why?)


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RoboBob3000
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One thing that strikes me about linking new SmS-es (hey, I dare you to try and pluralize that) with new elements is that it is now no longer possible for Average-Joe-With-An-Eight-Point-Oh to submit an SmS candidate with the new element before its release.

How will this be addressed? Some sort of recruitment process or an overhaul of SmS authoring altogether? Or some other infinitely more clever solution?

____________________________
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eytanz
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Note that Erik said *some* SmSs will be coupled with new features. Not that all SmSs. Between that fact, and the fact that SmSs are no longer on a quarterly schedule, there's no reason for the current submission system not to just co-exist with other SmSs. So some of them will be community-made, and others will be in-house made, and yet others may involve recruiting architects.

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coppro
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How will the system of SmSs that showcase new elements be handled? If the idea is to be the first place to get that element, then doesn't that mean that you'd have to privately contact people to make SmSs? If so, does that mean we'd just be getting more of the same people?

eytanz
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My assumption (no inside knowledge here) is that the SmSs that include new elements will be designed in-house by Caravel for the most part.

Note, though, that the amount of SmS-eligable authors has been growing significantly as of lately. And one thing that might happen (again, a guess), is that Caravel takes a regular SmS submission and adds a level or two with new features.

____________________________
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[Last edited by eytanz at 02-21-2007 03:19 AM]

Tim
Level: Smitemaster

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Tim's Top Picks for February

I felt horribly half-illuminated that I decide to write this myself.
And seriously, lots of important things had been added lately.
If you only visit the forum for the Illumination, then you might want to know the following:

DROD 2.0.15 for Windows
According to mrimer, version 2.0.15 has now been officially released.
Download it as usual on the download page.
http://forum.caravelgames.com/downloads.php

Twenty-Three Rooms, Ravenous, Cave, Compass Point, Islands in the Sky, Flibbit's Flourish, Population Density:
These are all the holds (level collections) that have been released since last month's Illumination newsletter. And unbelievably, 5 of them currently scores over 8! (And I like the other two too!)
http://forum.caravelgames.com/viewboard.php?BoardID=11

New TCB screenshot
According to eytanz, another screenshot has been released.
But it still requires some searching to see it.
Start reading it from here:
http://forum.caravelgames.com/viewtopic.php?TopicID=9121&page=12#159527

HA!
You might remember the hold uploading process in the Holds board? Well, that has been changed.
Instead, you get a whole bunch of Hold Administrators (HA) that will check whether your hold is finishable before it is being put on the Holds Board.
Read about the whole new process in the Architecture Board:
http://forum.caravelgames.com/viewtopic.php?TopicID=13614

A "Tower of the Sorcerer" game
Do you like Tower of the Sorcerer? Well, one of our (new, okay, perhaps not that new) forumites DGM made a game based on that.
Some of us like it too. (I'm not a big fan of it, but still worth mentioning.)
http://forum.caravelgames.com/viewtopic.php?TopicID=13452

A four year old on a bikeride
No comment. Just read it.
http://forum.caravelgames.com/viewtopic.php?TopicID=13594

That's all for now. And I'm really sorry if I can't write English properly, but it was at least a good exercise.

-- Tim

____________________________
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[Last edited by Tim at 02-21-2007 07:47 AM : some spellings]

ErikH2000
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2794
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Man, I just spent three hours answering DROD e-mails, and my wife fell asleep without me. I want to go to bed, but first, I should clarify a few things:

* The downloadable Smitemaster's Selections are going to go up in price to $15. I'm not sure about the CDs yet, but those may go up a little too. No price changes will happen before 3/31/07.

* We will award Smitemaster's Selection download credits to existing members and change CaravelNet memberships to not automatically give Smitemaster's Selections on 3/31/07.

* Smitemaster's Selection download credits will be awarded for any membership which is active or has a beginning date in 2007. (So it is not useful to buy a bunch of extra CaravelNet memberships in 2008 or beyond to take advantage of the offer.)

* The amount of credits awarded will be enough to give you 4 Smitemaster's Selections for a year of membership. A few months ago we gave out a download credit to active members. That credit will count towards the 4 total, if you received it. And any Smitemaster's Selections you received through the old CaravelNet release process will also count towards the 4 total.

* If you purchase a CaravelNet membership after 3/31/07, no credits will be awarded for that membership.

Alright, so that's a whole lot of boring information, but I think it boils down to this: If you are interested in getting a good deal on Smitemaster's Selections, and don't currently have a CaravelNet membership that extends into 2008, it is in your best interest to buy a 1-year membership before 3/31/07. The savings is something like $12 versus $60 for four Smitemaster's Selections, plus you'd get CaravelNet as well.

-Erik

____________________________
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DGM
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 202
Registered: 06-16-2006
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Tim wrote:

A "Tower of the Sorcerer" game
Do you like Tower of the Sorcerer? Well, one of our (new, okay, perhaps not that new) forumites DGM

I actually signed up over half a year ago, I just didn't post for a long time after my first few. Shame I didn't sign up 10 days earlier, or I could have made a great running joke about 6-6-6 out of it...

made a game based on that.
Some of us like it too. (I'm not a big fan of it, but still worth mentioning.)
http://forum.caravelgames.com/viewtopic.php?TopicID=13452

Thanks for the mention! Actually, I wish I could get more feedback from those less excited about the game (like yourself, apparently), as I'm curious as to how useful such perspective might be. But I think it will be fine regardless...

____________________________
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DGM
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ErikH2000 wrote:

* If you purchase a CaravelNet membership after 3/31/07, no credits will be awarded for that membership.

Will the prices change afterward to reflect the fact that you're not getting both membership and Selections anymore?

____________________________
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NiroZ
Level: Smitemaster
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DGM wrote:

ErikH2000 wrote:

* If you purchase a CaravelNet membership after 3/31/07, no credits will be awarded for that membership.

Will the prices change afterward to reflect the fact that you're not getting both membership and Selections anymore?

Do you mean the price of CaravelNet?

Considering that he said

The savings is something like $12 versus $60 for four Smitemaster's Selections, plus you'd get CaravelNet as well.

I think that there won't be a price change. Bear in mind that they're improving Caravelnet as well.

ErikH2000
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2794
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DGM wrote:
Will the prices change afterward to reflect the fact that you're not getting both membership and Selections anymore?

No, CaravelNet pricing will stay at $12/year for the foreseeable future. We are removing Selections, but with the new features, I think for most people, the service will be at least as valuable as it was before. And honestly, twelve bucks is so frigging cheap already.

-Erik

____________________________
The Godkiller - Chapter 1 available now on Steam. It's a DROD-like puzzle adventure game.
dev journals | twitch stream | youtube archive (NSFW)

Briareos
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 3516
Registered: 08-07-2005
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ErikH2000 wrote:
And honestly, twelve bucks is so frigging cheap already.

Well, so are we - your customers.

Right? Guys? Hello? Anybody?

np: Autechre - Pencha (Cichlisuite)

____________________________
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Remlin
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 181
Registered: 04-28-2005
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Sorry if this sounds silly, um, but what are the features of CaravelNet? I had thought that getting SMSes was pretty much all it was. I see there's a few things "coming soon", but is there any reason currently to have a CaravelNet subscription if it doesn't come with SMSes?

eytanz
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2708
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Current features of Caravelnet, excluding SmS: Highscores, in-game demo downloads, hold downloads in game, access to room images in H&S, being able to join/start beta boards.


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Remlin
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 181
Registered: 04-28-2005
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Ah, thanks eytanz. I've never played DROD without having CaravelNet, so I didn't realize that stuff wasn't standard. Alright, that's worth paying for.

Elfstone
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1285
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Remlin wrote:
Sorry if this sounds silly, um, but what are the features of CaravelNet? I had thought that getting SMSes was pretty much all it was. I see there's a few things "coming soon", but is there any reason currently to have a CaravelNet subscription if it doesn't come with SMSes?

Just supporting the people who make, invent, create, run, maintain, improve, computer-code, design, oversee, moderate, develop all of this, (and spend three hours at a time answering emails) as well as answering endless questions with unfailing politeness, would seem to be a good thing to do anyway. (Other, more computer-litereate people than me will be able to explain the technical side to you.)

Edit: crunch!! (being the sound of me colliding with eytanz, and believe me, in that situation he is the more deserving of sympathy)

____________________________
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[Last edited by Elfstone at 02-21-2007 08:53 PM]

Alneyan
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 622
Registered: 07-06-2004
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Now all we, the people of the Eighth, need is a straightforward way to send money direct to Caravel Games. I gather Erik *still* doesn't want to open some 200 Caravel Games subsidiaries worldwire to take care of such problems. That sounds like the perfect first step for world domination, but hey.

So, I suppose no perfect solution for international purchases has been devised during the last year? Well, besides manipulationg people, that is... or just moving over to the more civilised England (September is pretty far away, though).

hyphz
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 34
Registered: 01-02-2006
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Well the format used for adding new elements be included in the DROD 3.0 open source so people can design their own, or will they be hidden somehow? Or perhaps the official ones could be signed with an RSA key, so people could still make unofficial ones that would get overridden by official ones?

Pinnacle
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1135
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Since I renewed my CaravelNet membership during last year's 3-extra-months offer, do I get 5-(number of SmS's released before August 6 2007) credits?



____________________________
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Twice (adv.): Once too often.
~Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

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[Last edited by Pinnacle at 02-21-2007 10:11 PM]

Albert
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 29
Registered: 11-01-2006
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I've looked at the page that describes Caravelnet before telling you to buy it, and somewhere in there it says not to buy membership that extends beyond next year. What exactly happens if I do?

My membership currently ends on 25/01/08, so if I bought another year, would it just cut it a bit short and stop at 31/12/08, or would it not accept my order at all? I'd happily forfeit those 25 days if it meant getting four download credits instead of the two that I'll be getting if I don't (assuming I've understood this deal correctly).
Edit: Aah sorry. I had to reread that statement a few times before I worked out what it meant.

This is a bit unrelated to the question, but I wouldn't say that viewing room images in H&S is a Caravelnet-exclusive feature. The only rooms that that applies to are the ones in minority of holds that are marked so that their rooms aren't shown in H&S until you've seen them in-game. And being able to view those rooms if you have Caravelnet isn't really a feature in itself, it's just a side-effect of the fact that Caravelnet tells the forum about your progess.

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[Last edited by Albert at 02-22-2007 12:41 AM]

mrimer
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ErikH2000 wrote:
* Smitemaster's Selection download credits will be awarded for any membership which is active or has a beginning date in 2007. (So it is not useful to buy a bunch of extra CaravelNet memberships in 2008 or beyond to take advantage of the offer.)

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silver
Level: Smitemaster
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Registered: 01-18-2005
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there are other questions in this thread which aren't related to SmS-credits. they're just being buried in the deluge.



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malkav11
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 59
Registered: 01-05-2007
IP: Logged

I have to say that I'm disappointed by this news. I don't feel ripped off, mind you. I paid my $12 largely to get the four SMSes during that year, and I'm going to get them. So that's fine. But Caravel.net itself (new features included) feels like something that should just be a built in component of a purchased copy of the game, not a subscription service. It absolutely adds that extra zing but it's just not exciting enough in and of itself for me to spend money on it. Perhaps if I could pay the $12 at $1 monthly, I'd feel differently (yes, it's the same amount of money, but it's more flexible and, well, $12 registers on my budget. $1 is impulse purchase fare.).

I'm also disappointed to see the SMS price go up. $15 is nearly the price of a full DROD game at this stage. Aside from KDD 2.0, have there really been any SMSes of that size and complexity? Will they be in future? $9 was already a little tough for me to contemplate, hence my choice to acquire Caravel.net.

I dunno. DROD is already really quite the bargain, so I really shouldn't complain *too* much about prices starting to catch up with value, especially if it funds further goodies. But I'm going to be hard-pressed to cheer even so.

Edit: I forgot the part of the Illumination that made me very happy. Yay, Journey's End! *goes and downloads*

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[Last edited by malkav11 at 02-22-2007 08:24 AM]

Briareos
Level: Smitemaster

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malkav11 wrote:
Perhaps if I could pay the $12 at $1 monthly, I'd feel differently (yes, it's the same amount of money, but it's more flexible and, well, $12 registers on my budget. $1 is impulse purchase fare.).

*gulp*

Exactly what kind of a budget are you on? Stuff below 10EUR hardly ever registers on my radar...

Also, with 12 single transactions the costs per transaction probably would eat up half of one dollar...

____________________________
"I'm not anti-anything, I'm anti-everything, it fits better." - Sole
R.I.P. Robert Feldhoff (1962-2009)