Briareos
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I've even downloaded said hold from the holds page by hand and imported it (after deleting the old beta one), but it still shows up as "Population Density: (BETA)" for me.

Does it do that for anyone else?

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zex20913
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It should be fixed now. Something weird happens if you beta-test or HA a hold. You can't get the real hold until the beta board goes away.

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eytanz
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Actually, if you download the hold it will be the official version, but it will still say "BETA" in-game as long as the beta board exists.

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Briareos
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eytanz wrote:
Actually, if you download the hold it will be the official version, but it will still say "BETA" in-game as long as the beta board exists.

Yeah, that's what I did, and that's why I was wondering why it still said beta.

Of course, if the existence of a beta board marks a hold as BETA in-game it works as designed...

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eytanz
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The only problem is that at the moment beta boards need to be manually removed by a moderator, so there's normally a lag between release and end of in-game "beta" status. But score uploading works fine for the holds, regardless of whether it still says "beta" or not.

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zex20913
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Another issue with this is multiple copies. With Population Density (which I HAd), I had one copy (which looked like the real thing--description and all) in my downloaded holds list, and two copies in my list of holds I will eventually download, both of which said BETA. The one that looked real was unpublished on CaravelNet when I tried to grab some high scores. All problems disappeared when the Beta board was deleted.

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eytanz
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Oh, you also get phantom downloadable holds, but if you try downloading any of them it won't let you (if you have a downloaded copy), and if you don't, it will download the real version no matter what you choose.

In other words, again, all that happens is screwed up display. You cannot actually end up with a hold that doesn't work correctly or than won't be recognized as the real one by the system.

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zex20913
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Um...not in my experience. I haven't checked the actual hold once I downloaded it, but they still said BETA (both phantom holds), even after I deleted the hold I had, and downloaded one phantom hold. I remember from a previous hold, too, that it was in fact the Beta hold, and not the actual one.

I haven't tried to download a phantom hold when I had one in my downloaded list.

eytanz wrote:
In other words, again, all that happens is screwed up display. You cannot actually end up with a hold that doesn't work correctly or than won't be recognized as the real one by the system.

True, I haven't had a screwy hold, but I could not download the real one until the beta board was deleted. That's my issue.

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eytanz
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Sigh. Let me start over.

There is no "real one" and "beta hold". There is one hold. It is the real one. But, if you have access to the beta hold, the game will label it as beta. It will also show phantom downloadable listings. But that's all that's different.

If you download the so-called "beta hold", and then the board is deleted, you'll see that the hold you have has magically transformed into the so-called "real hold".

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zex20913
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But while the beta board is still up, people who have the Beta hold can't get the real one? Is that the case?

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mrimer
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zex20913 wrote:
But while the beta board is still up, people who have the Beta hold can't get the real one? Is that the case?

What does that mean? The beta hold is the real one! What's the difference?

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[Last edited by mrimer at 02-17-2007 08:00 PM]

zex20913
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By real I mean high-scoreable, or the one that is published on CaravelNet.

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mrimer
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zex20913 wrote:
By real I mean high-scoreable, or the one that is published on CaravelNet.

The beta hold automatically becomes scoreable when it is published on CaravelNet.

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zex20913
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...and it automatically transforms into that version, right?

Right now, if a hold is published (up on the Holds board) and the Beta board is still up, what you describe is not taking place. It is happening once the beta board is deleted.

I know that right now, beta boards are deleted manually, and somebody is working on automating it, but what I'm trying to say is that if someone beta tests (I think) or HAs a hold, and the beta board is not deleted, then that tester can not download the high-scoreable version.

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coppro
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But AFAIK, it doesn't know that. I remember that the last beta hold I did, I had to wait until the hold was updated before DROD realized that it was a CaravelNet hold and would let me upload.

mrimer
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zex20913 wrote:
...and it automatically transforms into that version, right?

We said several times now that there is only one version, so how could it change into itself?

Right now, if a hold is published (up on the Holds board) and the Beta board is still up, what you describe is not taking place. It is happening once the beta board is deleted.

Yes, that's something we need to automate.

I know that right now, beta boards are deleted manually, and somebody is working on automating it, but what I'm trying to say is that if someone beta tests (I think) or HAs a hold, and the beta board is not deleted, then that tester can not download the high-scoreable version.

Yes, while the beta board is still up, I don't think high scores register for any beta tester of that hold. That has nothing to do with whether you downloaded the hold while it was in beta or after it has been published on CaravelNet, though.

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Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
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eytanz
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mrimer wrote:
Yes, while the beta board is still up, I don't think high scores register for any beta tester of that hold. That has nothing to do with whether you downloaded the hold while it was in beta or after it has been published on CaravelNet, though.

NO!

That's what I've been trying to say. You *can* upload scores from the hold, *even* if it still says BETA in the game. I know this for a fact because I was the HA who promoted Population density and I got scores for it immediately after that. That was actually a problem since I had to deliberately cripple my scores since I felt it was unfair for me to get #1s (I later went back and tied
all the #1s after Tokyokid got them).

Actually, I think I know what the problem may be - I think that if you got scores for a room in a beta hold *before* it was promoted, the game won't let you get a real score for that room afterwards, unless it's better (so if you got a #1 or #1 tie previously, you're out of luck). But I don't think this depends on whether the beta board still exists.

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[Last edited by eytanz at 02-17-2007 08:25 PM]

coppro
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I was beta-testing KPVIII's Dungeon, and I got a score in a room that was the minimal possible score. The room in question was deep in the hold, at the very end. I could not upload the score. The hold was updated shortly after to fix a bug that slipped through a late version of beta-testing. Once it was updated, I downloaded the newer hold. After downloading, I was able to upload the demo, and hold the #1 score to this day. IIRC, the beta board still existed at the time.