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This is the first hold I've ever created. My main goal was to make the rooms "interesting", rather than "difficult". And for the most part, this hold is probably on the easy side for anyone who's played through Journey to Rooted Hold.

Thanks to "Chaco", "Ezlo", "subkel", and "bandit1200" for testing this hold, as well as giving me pointers to help improve some of the rooms.

Have fun!

igusarov
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 116
Registered: 04-20-2006
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I enjoyed the hold.
Fighting the rattlesnake in L2 1S1E took me some serious thinking. Other rooms also has interesting puzzles. Yes, you are right, they are more interesting then difficult, and this is good!

Also I think that the hold would be more enjoyable if the puzzles were unique. Let's say, in L3 2N1E finding how to kill the snake is fun, but repeating the same killing sequence 7 more times doesn't add more fun.

Tahnan
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2459
Registered: 11-14-2005
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With one secret room left, I can probably go ahead and comment: there's a whole lot to like here. There's a lot of variety between rooms, but not in a "this was thrown together" kind of way; instead, the rooms play nicely as "variations on a theme". It's not, generally speaking, hard (as the architect recognizes), but it's rarely boring either.

The downside is that, as igusarov noted, some of the rooms are internally repetitive. (L3:3N is ostensibly one of them, though I found it kind of peaceful and meditative. Walk, swing, walk walk, swing...) Whereas L3:2N has four different "minirooms", L3:1N has pretty much the same thing four times.

So some of the rooms can be a little boring; but overall it's a nice construction, and very nice as a first hold.

eytanz
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2708
Registered: 02-05-2003
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Ok, I've mastered the hold and I have to say I agree with Tahnan completely - there is a lot of good in this hold, some original puzzles, and nice thematic unity in each level.

But, like both Tahnan and igusarov, I found the repeititive *within* the rooms irritating. Repeating the exact same puzzle twice, four times, or seven times in a room is not more interesting than doing it once. In some rooms, this was done relatively well, with subtle variations making the repeated puzzles worthwhile, but in most of the cases, there was no variation, just "do the exact thing over and over". That definitely hurt my experience of the hold.

The other problem was arrows on room entrances - they were used way too often; I think maybe one or two were justified but in most cases they served no purpose at all. Arrows on room entrances are almost always bad design, and they were here too.

If it wasn't for those two problems, this would have been an 8 with 3.5 brains. As it is, I'm rating it a 7.

A promising hold from a new architect - If he learns from the mistakes of this one, the next one will probably be really great.

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[Last edited by eytanz at 10-18-2006 03:46 AM]

Tahnan
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2459
Registered: 11-14-2005
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Oh! Yes, I meant to complain about the arrows on the room entrances. (Especially since it was easy to miss a checkpoint on the way out of the previous room, making it painful to restore to get a better sword position.)

eytanz
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2708
Registered: 02-05-2003
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Karipto wrote:
As for the force arrows, I generally don't like to start rooms on a raised door, so that would force me to put force arrows in the "beginning" of the room somewhere (if re-visiting the room is necessary). It just so happens that I chose the entrance for some of those rooms. If the hold design was straight-forward, with no need to backtrack, then I wouldn't have used force arrows on the start of a lot of rooms. In any case, now I have a couple of ideas to work around that for any future holds I may make.

I'm not sure I see what the arrows gained you - arrows on the "back" of a room exit - i.e., where you'd be on a green door if you step through, sure, but the arrows that were on the square you first enter a room from didn't seem to gain you anything except force people to play a room the moment they enter it or restore.

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[Last edited by eytanz at 10-18-2006 05:20 AM]

Tahnan
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2459
Registered: 11-14-2005
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...oh, right, the symmetry. I meant to comment that I do like symmetry. (I used it to good effect...well, I used it to effect, anyway, in my Limited Resources Hold.) On the other hand, one of my favorite holds is Veere's Hold, which made good use of the "miniature" room. Perhaps if you've got an idea that fits in a 10x10 square, put it in the center of a room surrounded by walls/pits, instead of putting it six times in one room.

Or find ways to make variations on the theme: point the entrance arrow a different way, add an extra bomb to avoid or leave out a floor space, etc.

jbluestein
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1670
Registered: 12-23-2005
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Mastered this one. I don't have a lot more to say about it than eytanz and tahnan already said, so I'll be brief.

It was short, sweet, and I believe it achieved the goal it set out to achieve: interesting rooms that are not particularly difficult.

A good first hold. I give it a 7 with 3.5 brains.

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"Rings and knots of joy and grief, all interlaced and locking." --William Buck

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[Last edited by jbluestein at 10-23-2006 04:17 PM]

larrymurk
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1911
Registered: 12-09-2004
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I'd call this a good hold. As mentioned earlier, I'd say the repetativeness was the only real weakness.

noma
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1594
Registered: 11-22-2006
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Just mastered this hold. What I really liked about Catacombs was that, although the rooms were challenging and original, I was still able to solve each room completely on my own. However they weren't so simple that I felt I wasn't learning anything new.

And yes, as others have said, some rooms were a little repetitive. However, as a relative newcomer to DROD, I found that the repetitiveness sometimes reinforced my skills. For instance: I finally figured out serpent movement. And the symmetry was pleasing.

So thank you Jeff. I enjoyed playing Catacombs very much. I rate this hold an 8.5 with 4 brains.

cbemom
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 36
Registered: 10-11-2004
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I liked this hold - not a lot more to add, as I feel the same way as the comments above. I love puzzles that make me go "hmm..." rather that "augh!" - this had good thinking rooms.

Three brains and a seven for fun.

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