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My first hold.

Several people have worked through this and given helpful suggestions on the Architecture board and I am grateful to all of them, but I want to put on public record my great gratitude to Hikari. His generous help, perceptive suggestions and unfailing kindness throughout his beta testing of this hold were invaluable.

As I said on the Architecture board, I have no illusions about this being a DROD masterpiece! If you enjoy playing through it, I will feel that I have achieved something worthwhile.

Elfstone.

tokyokid
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Nice Elfstone! Thanks for posting it here!

Hikari
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I heartily endorse this hold. Didn't find it that difficult at all in its final form (though I have yet to play its CaravelNet-enabled form), and the rooms are a pleasure to look at.

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Briareos
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Hikari wrote:
I heartily endorse this hold. Didn't find it that difficult at all in its final form (though I have yet to play its CaravelNet-enabled form), and the rooms are a pleasure to look at.

Yeah, the rooms definitely looked nice - but the one room in winter with all those golems and the end of autumn were a bit of a drag.

Otherwise, it's a nice, not too hard hold - I give it an 8, with 5 brains of difficulty.

np: Root 70 - Revivitator (Tongs Of Love) ft. Black Sifichi (Heaps Dub)

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Hikari
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Briareos wrote:
the end of autumn [was] a bit of a drag.

You should've seen its original form

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jbluestein
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I think that this was a very nice first effort, for the most part. Visually, the rooms are beautiful.

Too many wubba hordes to my taste, though.

Nothing too complicated -- some good light smitefests, though.

I give it a 7 with 4 brains. (I have to, have to take off a point for wubba overload. My eyebrows are still twitching. Sorry.)

I look forward to seeing Elfstone's next hold, though. She clearly has an eye.



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Jatopian
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jbluestein wrote:
I look forward to seeing Elfstone's next hold, though. She clearly has an eye.

For aesthetics, yes. Such creative use of the custom images is worth a high rating on its own.
And she's a brain for good puzzles as well (I'm stuck on the Noel room ).
I'm not rating it till I finish, but it looks to be an 8; if she continues to produce such quality, I'd love to see what she'd do with a Smitemasters' Selection.
The wubba rooms were a bit annoying, but not ridiculous.

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Ezlo
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I LOVE the artistic styles of this hold! It just is amazing! I'm giving it 5 brains and 9 rating for a lack of a 9.5.

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redfish
Level: Goblin

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Great and original concept and carried off very well. The calming effect of all those pretty trees, leaves and snowflakes really took the edge off avoiding all those wubbas!

I'll give this an 8 with 5 brains of difficulty.

Pinnacle
Level: Smitemaster

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Excellent. I played this in beta.
8/10
A superior hold, especially for a first effort.
The aesthetics and several original concepts push the rating up.
Highly recommended. As said before, the wubba hordes are a bit too much, but it doesn't detract much from the overall quality.
4.5 brains
Not hard. Some challenging rooms, but overall on the easier side. (Not that that's a bad thing, I like it that way.)
+1 karma
Recommended?
Yes, definately.

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Ezlo
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Well Elfstone. You have an 8.0 rating! Start building a Smitemaster Selection!

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Jatopian
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Ezlo wrote:
Well Elfstone. You have an 8.0 rating! Start building a Smitemaster Selection!

She's to keep it for a month first... I'm sure she will; just pointing out...

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Rabscuttle
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also 10 votes.

eytanz
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Well, I'm waiting to finish the last few rooms before voting but unless there are nasty surprises coming up then I'm definitely giving either an 8 or 9, so she'll have her 10 votes soon.

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eytanz
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And indeed, now that I've completed it - I'm giving it a score of 8 and 4 brains. It's almost a 9 but I felt that some of the rooms were too tedious.

That said, I agree with what everyone is saying - this is a really beautiful hold to look at, and with a few minor exceptions the rooms are fun to play - most fall into the "horde fighting" genre rather than outright puzzles but there's nothing wrong with that (at all).

The only downpoints were a heavy reliance on wubbas and spiders, both elements better used in moderation.

Overall, a fun, not-too-difficult hold, with extra care put into room aesthetics that really pays off. I recommend this hold to all DROD players, beginners and experts alike, and am be eager to play Elfstone's next hold.

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Jason
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Mastered! I really liked the room aesthetics but the wubbas got a little tedious.

Gave it 4.5 Brains and a 8 overall! Very good first hold!

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tokyokid
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15 votes now!
Well, I've completed enough to vote w/ a 9 and 4.5 brains of difficulty.

Actually, I didn't really mind the wubbas, but that brought it down from a 10. I love the hold art too! Start working on a SS, Elfstone!

Elfstone
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File: Secret Santa Logic.JPG (82.1 KB)
Downloaded 83 times.
License: Public Domain

Wow!

Goodness me!!

Heavens above!!!

Speechless!!!!

- but more chuffed than I can say!

Elf(blushing deeply)stone

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Winner of: Novice Architect Excellence 2006.
FAPCA - Technical Design Excellence in Layout and Aesthetics

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[Last edited by Elfstone at 12-12-2008 07:00 PM]

larrymurk
Level: Smitemaster

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Elfstone,

I think you're a great contributer and lovely person, but here's my opinion..

The rooms really look great visually!
There's a fine theme enforced by room pictures and level descriptions.
Difficulty didn't vary too much (which is good).
I liked the level layouts since they were simple and had no problems.

But I felt this hold lacked maybe the most important factor for me- gameplay. The rooms all seemed very similar. Most seemed like a bunch of monsters that you just stand there and slash, no thought or planning required. Then to add a little bit of a challenge I guess you'd throw in wubbas and spiders when these creatures especially should be used in moderation (as eytanz mentioned). Throwing in a pile of golems wasn't really fun either.

Overall:
I've got to say everything is done well except the gameplay so I wouldn't recommend this hold to anyone above intermediate DROD ability.

Banjooie
Level: Smitemaster

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Yes, Larry, I'm terribly sorry that the hold wasn't there to focus on lynchpins and the like. Occasionally, holds are allowed to be simple. I consider myself a high-intermediate player, and I certainly enjoyed the bejesus out of this one. Were there a lot of wubbas? Yes, but the color white was usually important to the motif.

Were there spiders? Sure, but you can't put black everywhere, and they were usually reasonable in terms of the motif.

This is a concept hold, not a difficulty hold. I don't care how good you are, /play it/. This one is a class unto itself.

NiroZ
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Do you guys remember the latest bout of hold rating/highscore filtering/architecture revamping suggestions?

Because two points that where brought up(I'm not too sure about the second one, however), one for the architecture revamping, which was that if use the community to filter what goes onto the hold board, a bias will occur. Thankyou Larrymurk for showing us how it can be done. I agree with what you say, except you laid it on a bit thick with the recommendation.

The second point was that people, if they give a low(or lower) rating, should tell the authur why(ok, its a bit of a crooked fit). Thankyou Banjooie for giving us an excellent demonstration of why people should be very wary when doing that.(its probably not worthy of a -1 however)

Sorry for thread hijacking, I just feel that this should be pointed out.

I like what I have played thus far of this hold, Elfstone, but I agree that you sacrificed too much for visual quality as opposed to gameplay. Fortunatly its not too much, but enough to be a problem. Not enough problem, however, to stop me eagarly anticipating your next hold(if you feel inclined to do so).

---

[Last edited by NiroZ at 10-15-2006 06:23 AM]

eytanz
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Yeah, seriously, Banjooie - Larry was giving his opinion, in a constructive and polite manner. You may disagree with it, but it certainly doesn't merit the kind of rudeness you exhibited towards him. I didn't mod you down, but if someone else hadn't done it first I probably would have.

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Banjooie
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Hey, fair enough. You've the right to mod me down.

Syntax
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larrymurk wrote:
Overall:
I've got to say everything is done well except the gameplay so I wouldn't recommend this hold to anyone above intermediate DROD ability.

Well, I modded larrymurk up. I think his statement says it all perfectly. It's a beatiful hold, but I think it almost felt like a War series with gorgeous backdrops. That being said, I've had plenty of fun with fratropea and Dolan42 chasing #1s. I just think it's a very hard hold to optimise which can be a negative at times.

Rabscuttle
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Syntax wrote:

larrymurk wrote:
Overall:

I've got to say everything is done well except the gameplay so I wouldn't recommend this hold to anyone above intermediate DROD ability.

Well, I modded larrymurk up. I think his statement says it all perfectly. It's a beatiful hold, but I think it almost felt like a War series with gorgeous backdrops. That being said, I've had plenty of fun with fratropea and Dolan42 chasing #1s. I just think it's a very hard hold to optimise which can be a negative at times.

I find that to be a positive. Lynchpin rooms that contain just the lynchpin are fun, but only once. Rooms like these have greater optimising options and IMO that adds to gameplay rather than detracts from it.

eytanz
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I should point out, with regards to what Banjooie said, that my view of the wubbas and spiders - even though I lumped them together earlier - is different.

First, I should say that it is clear that Elfstone chose visuals over gameplay as the primary principle in room design. I think that's a perfectly valid choice. In fact, I commend her for it, because I think there's room for this sort of hold. But like any other valid choice, there will be people who don't like it, which is also valid (and why I don't think Banjooie's tone towards Larrymurk is at all valid even though I partially agree with his content).

Given that, the choice to use wubbas was both expected and fitting in my eyes. It made the hold more annoying, but wubbas are necessary because they are the only white game element and thus needed for the hold art.

Spiders, though, are invisible. So - I'm guessing - at any point in which spiders were used, they were not chosen because of a positive use in the hold art, but because of the lack of a negative use. Therefore, the only reason to introduce spiders to the equation was gameplay. And, in my opinion, they were rarely used well. Usually they detracted from the playing experience rather than added to it.

Thus, even though I think the wubbas were more annoying on their own, I understood why they were there and found them easier to accept, than the spiders which were less annoying but apparently gratitious.

But let me just say that this is just meant as in-depth look of a specific issue in a hold I overall enjoyed a lot - my opinion of it hasn't changed, I'd still recommend it to any player, of any skill level beyond absolute beginner.

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bflatjeff
Level: Delver
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Can I just say how much I love this game, the active player community, and the endless possibilities for expansion and replayability?
Then it becomes a hunt for the best of the user-created holds. I found this one by a combination of most played, highest rated, and finally The Deadlies (such a thing! I'll be more involved next time, I'm still fairly new here).

Thank you, Elfstone, for an enjoyable, distinctive hold. I liked the artistic focus. There's probably a limited amount of room for holds like this one, but this is the first of its kind that I've found. I've been turned off by some holds before due to lack of aesthetic design, which this has down to a T.

I agree with the comments about spiders. Clearing a room of all visible monsters, only to have some spiders trapped in a cul de sac somewhere, is quite annoying. The wubbas annoy me much less. Perhaps because I'm intrigued by the way they can block you in or seal a pathway, or perhaps because of the cute sound they make.
And I'm also posting here because I wanted to boast of my own #1 in Autumn's secret room. Although now that I've said it, someone will be along to best me soon, I'm sure.

Jeff

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Elfstone
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bflatjeff wrote:
Thank you, Elfstone, for an enjoyable, distinctive hold. I liked the artistic focus. There's probably a limited amount of room for holds like this one, but this is the first of its kind that I've found. I've been turned off by some holds before due to lack of aesthetic design, which this has down to a T.
Jeff

Very kind comments! Thanks

And my thanks to all of you who have said nice things about Seasons and voted for it. I have started a second hold, but I think this one will be longer in the making, - too many other things going on at the moment.

Elf.

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UrAvgAzn
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I saw this post and realized I had not played this hold in a while, and forgot to share some comments. Firstly, I really love this hold, and I would highly recommend this hold to anyone. I rated it 9/10 10/10 for fun and 6/10 for difficulty. I really liked the theme, it is very original, and I would really like to see a this idea revisited by you, Elf, and make a sequel to it. I've used various terms to describe other holds, and this one gets 'INCREDIBLE'. Keep the great holds coming, Elf. Here are my comments on some rooms (secreted to save space).

Spring

Summer

Autumn

Winter


I'd like to congratulate you again, Elf, on your great hold, and if you keep making these awesome holds, your skills will definitely improve. Larry, looks like you've got competition coming up.

Keep posting,

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Elfstone
Level: Smitemaster

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Thanks UrAvgAzn!

In answer to your question in Autumn: bunches of ripe grapes.

Elfstone.

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FAPCA - Technical Design Excellence in Layout and Aesthetics