skell
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I've wandered more or less carefully through search in search for scripting commands in feature request. ANd believe me or nor, I didn't found what I was looking for.

Well, anyuway let me say that I want one... two new scripting commands:

End on dying - when the NPC gets killed it will be ended, so next time you enter you won't see him. It made me furious while creating (slowly but slowly but it goes fourth) my hold. I have some places, which must be visited from other side to kill NPC so he won't close the doors and thus making the room impossible when entering from the proper side. I wanted to simply make some corridor, and on the end put the NPC which has orb next to him, or some escaping NPC. But it was impossible. I had to do rounded corridor blocked at the begin either by arrows, enemies or trap door (or anything else you can come with), palce the NPC in the middle of corridor, so I MUST kill him or I won't be able to get past. It looks odd, and I hate it, but there is no other way. So I'd love to have this idea. Besides, there are other things where it'd be useful.

Second one is:
Turn into a monster and End on monster killing - in other words, NPC is turned into a monster and when he gets killed he won't appear anymore. With that It'd be possible to create multi-enter monster "puzzle" (*cough* *cough*). For example many goblins coming from middle in an unstopable flow, and when you kill one he won't return. Actually I don't want this SO badly, but It'd be nice to have it.

When the second one can be stupid, the first is a total need (If you will tell me now that it's possible to do this now, I'd suicide ;P) and I will kill to have it .

Thank you for attention.

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[Last edited by mrimer at 07-29-2006 08:05 PM]

eytanz
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skell wrote:
I've wandered more or less carefully through search in search for scripting commands in feature request. ANd believe me or nor, I didn't found what I was looking for.

Well, anyuway let me say that I want one... two new scripting commands:

End on dying - when the NPC gets killed it will be ended, so next time you enter you won't see him. It made me furious while creating (slowly but slowly but it goes fourth) my hold. I have some places, which must be visited from other side to kill NPC so he won't close the doors and thus making the room impossible when entering from the proper side. I wanted to simply make some corridor, and on the end put the NPC which has orb next to him, or some escaping NPC. But it was impossible. I had to do rounded corridor blocked at the begin either by arrows, enemies or trap door (or anything else you can come with), palce the NPC in the middle of corridor, so I MUST kill him or I won't be able to get past. It looks odd, and I hate it, but there is no other way. So I'd love to have this idea. Besides, there are other things where it'd be useful.

You can solve this by using a second character. Make one character do nothing but have a loop to check to see that the other is alive, and END if it isn't. Make the second (real) character only appear on room entry if the other character exists.

Second one is:
Turn into a monster and End on monster killing - in other words, NPC is turned into a monster and when he gets killed he won't appear anymore. With that It'd be possible to create multi-enter monster "puzzle" (*cough* *cough*). For example many goblins coming from middle in an unstopable flow, and when you kill one he won't return. Actually I don't want this SO badly, but It'd be nice to have it.

I'm pretty sure this is impossible to do in the DROD engine. Once a character turns into a monster, it is no longer a character and the game cannot run any more script commands by it.

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skell
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eytanz wrote:

skell wrote:
I've wandered more or less carefully through search in search for scripting commands in feature request. ANd believe me or nor, I didn't found what I was looking for.

Well, anyuway let me say that I want one... two new scripting commands:

End on dying - when the NPC gets killed it will be ended, so next time you enter you won't see him. It made me furious while creating (slowly but slowly but it goes fourth) my hold. I have some places, which must be visited from other side to kill NPC so he won't close the doors and thus making the room impossible when entering from the proper side. I wanted to simply make some corridor, and on the end put the NPC which has orb next to him, or some escaping NPC. But it was impossible. I had to do rounded corridor blocked at the begin either by arrows, enemies or trap door (or anything else you can come with), palce the NPC in the middle of corridor, so I MUST kill him or I won't be able to get past. It looks odd, and I hate it, but there is no other way. So I'd love to have this idea. Besides, there are other things where it'd be useful.

You can solve this by using a second character. Make one character do nothing but have a loop to check to see that the other is alive, and END if it isn't. Make the second (real) character only appear on room entry if the other character exists.

But it still will look a bit bad

eytanz wrote:

Second one is:
Turn into a monster and End on monster killing - in other words, NPC is turned into a monster and when he gets killed he won't appear anymore. With that It'd be possible to create multi-enter monster "puzzle" (*cough* *cough*). For example many goblins coming from middle in an unstopable flow, and when you kill one he won't return. Actually I don't want this SO badly, but It'd be nice to have it.

I'm pretty sure this is impossible to do in the DROD engine. Once a character turns into a monster, it is no longer a character and the game cannot run any more script commands by it.

Hmm, that's what I was afraid about.

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zex20913
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I do like the idea for the first one. End on dying does seem like a nice command, useful, and will be more intuitive than the way eytanz described.

As for the second one--I'm not sure what you mean.

Do you mean for "regenerating monsters"? Like, you kill one and more keep spawning? Or do you mean NPCs that look like monsters, turning into monsters upon entry?

Either way, the "respawning monsters" are really a collection of Characters, turning into monsters after others. I don't think there's any way to fix this except going "Bad Architect! Bad! No respawning monsters!" (Unless it's, like, a brain, or something easy in a room like...well, one previous room with a "blood-spurting brain". I forget where that is.

If the second--that takes away the awesome Metroid-like idea (And Zelda-like) of respawning monsters. And it would demolish the style of geomatrx's holds.

So, in short, yay first (though it already has a solution) and boo second.

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eytanz
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zex20913 wrote:
I do like the idea for the first one. End on dying does seem like a nice command, useful, and will be more intuitive than the way eytanz described.

Oh, I agree. I was just pointing out that there's a stopgap solution.

I think for the second suggestion, it's basically the same as the first except for NPCs that turned into monsters.

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skell
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zex20913 wrote:
As for the second one--I'm not sure what you mean.

When NPC after turning into a monster gets killed he will not appear again in the room, for example we have room with one Roach NPC. He turns into monster. If you leave the room without killing him and return he will be there. If you will kill him and return, he will never appear. And imagine room filled with many roaches/goblins/etc .

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zex20913
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I think I see what you mean. I'm still a bit confused as to what exactly you are requesting though.

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eytanz
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His first request was for a command that would END a script when the NPC is killed while still an NPC.

His second request was for a command that would END a script if an NPC is first turned to a monster, then killed.

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zex20913
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Okay. Gotcha.

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Jatopian
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zex20913 wrote:
Either way, the "respawning monsters" are really a collection of Characters, turning into monsters after others. I don't think there's any way to fix this except going "Bad Architect! Bad! No respawning monsters!" (Unless it's, like, a brain, or something easy in a room like...well, one previous room with a "blood-spurting brain". I forget where that is.

KPVIIID2: Return to the Spire, in a secret room. And the brain actually did die if one held down the wait key long enough; it was just several characters appearing when the previous of the sequence died.

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NiroZ
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Well i know that that the first suggestion is already going to be implemented in TCB (i just can't find the topic though).

And for the second, wouldn't the command 'end' do what your looking for?

Hikari
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I don't think 'end' would do what he's after. He wants the character-monster to come back if you leave the room before killing it.

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mrimer
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NiroZ wrote:
Well i know that that the first suggestion is already going to be implemented in TCB (i just can't find the topic though).

This hasn't been added to TCB, but I like the idea. Assuming it's rather simple to implement, I'll put it in.

NiroZ
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mrimer wrote:

NiroZ wrote:
Well i know that that the first suggestion is already going to be implemented in TCB (i just can't find the topic though).

This hasn't been added to TCB, but I like the idea. Assuming it's rather simple to implement, I'll put it in.

I was sure that there was a topic somewere that had a list of things confirmed in TCB, and a die script was one of them.

Oneiromancer
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That was a command forcing an NPC to die, not detecting when one died.

Game on,

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skell
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mrimer wrote:

NiroZ wrote:
Well i know that that the first suggestion is already going to be implemented in TCB (i just can't find the topic though).

This hasn't been added to TCB, but I like the idea. Assuming it's rather simple to implement, I'll put it in.

You are going to put it? Thank you, thank you

And If you'll try to use end, end on room exit and turn into a monster in any combination it won't work (Believe me, I've spent hours with it ).

ANd what I've just thought. Turn into a monster and end. So NPC turns into a monster AND he never appears again. It isn't too hard, isn't it? But from the other side, I see no puzzle potential in it .

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Oneiromancer
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skell wrote:
ANd what I've just thought. Turn into a monster and end. So NPC turns into a monster AND he never appears again. It isn't too hard, isn't it? But from the other side, I see no puzzle potential in it .

This can be done with If statements. Assuming that you don't want it to appear again after the room is conquered, it's easy to use an If statement with "Wait for clean room" and if the room isn't clean, then it turns into a monster and if the room is, the script ends.

Game on,

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eytanz
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Oneiromancer wrote:

skell wrote:
ANd what I've just thought. Turn into a monster and end. So NPC turns into a monster AND he never appears again. It isn't too hard, isn't it? But from the other side, I see no puzzle potential in it .

This can be done with If statements. Assuming that you don't want it to appear again after the room is conquered, it's easy to use an If statement with "Wait for clean room" and if the room isn't clean, then it turns into a monster and if the room is, the script ends.

Game on,

That doesn't seem to be what he's asking for - he seems to be asking for a command that allows a character to turn into a monster ONCE. Which already exists - that's what "end on room exit" is for.

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skell
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But ENd on room exit along with Turn into monster doesn't works. See for yourself . And besides asd I've mentioned the only feature I'm really interested in is End on Death .

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eytanz
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It does, if you do "end on exit" before you do "turn to monster". That's the whole point of "end on exit", it defers the end until after future instructions.

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[Last edited by eytanz at 07-27-2006 04:20 PM]

Jason
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File: test.hold (1014 bytes)
Downloaded 45 times.
License: Public Domain

So you want something a little like this.

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skell
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Jason wrote:
So you want something a little like this.

aha... But it doesn't work if I do---!

Um, after further investigation I realised, that IF you will do such script:

End on room exit
turn into monster

it won't work. But if you will do something like that:

[Some script, for example "wait 1 turns"]
End on room exit
turn into monster

It will work. I consider it as bug, but ehh...
And yeah, it works .

Anyway, I've came up with another scripting command idea. Because, if I remember correctly, in TCB you will have the possibility to import your own character graphics. So I was wondering: "It would be cool to create enemy who goes north/south bouncing from wall. And he'd be indestructable." Of course, you can do this with guard who has sword, but I'd rather like to have possibility to turn on "Aggresive" mode. When on aggresive mode, enemy wouldn't mind you, and if you'll stand on his way, he will simply kill you. Even more, I'd love to have 4 aggresive levels:
-Off
-Player
-Enemies
-Player & Enemies
In other words, level of aggresive says who he kills.

Pff, hope you understand . And I can think of thousand of puzze-potential puzzles XD. Ok, ok, I know that I want too much but...

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NiroZ
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skell wrote:

Anyway, I've came up with another scripting command idea. Because, if I remember correctly, in TCB you will have the possibility to import your own character graphics. So I was wondering: "It would be cool to create enemy who goes north/south bouncing from wall. And he'd be indestructable." Of course, you can do this with guard who has sword, but I'd rather like to have possibility to turn on "Aggresive" mode. When on aggresive mode, enemy wouldn't mind you, and if you'll stand on his way, he will simply kill you.

hmm i think i have seen that done already, (the choice, anyone?)

skell wrote: Even more, I'd love to have 4 aggresive levels:
-Off
-Player
-Enemies
-Player & Enemies
In other words, level of aggresive says who he kills.

Pff, hope you understand . And I can think of thousand of puzze-potential puzzles XD. Ok, ok, I know that I want too much but...

Well, Off is what characters are set to now, and i'm pretty damn sure that there are plenty of characters(monsters?)(if you meant custom monsters, how exactly would they behave?) that target you, but the two might be interesting. However, how exactly would they go about targeting the monsters and player, and in what order?

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[Last edited by NiroZ at 07-29-2006 02:23 PM : grammar]

Oneiromancer
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Yeah, as NiroZ pointed out, scripted mimics or guards "patrolling" with a very rudimentary AI has already been done in several holds, starting with my The Choice [(and JtRH:L13)]. You can easily make them indestructible if you want (sometimes it is a better puzzle to have them be vulnerable), and they can definitely kill Beethro, monsters, and tarstuff, and strike orbs. The AI you suggest is, I think, more than the scripting really should be able to do. What you want is more like a totally new game element, I think.

Game on,

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[Last edited by mrimer at 07-29-2006 08:02 PM]

mrimer
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skell wrote:
Um, after further investigation I realised, that IF you will do such script:

End on room exit
turn into monster

it won't work. But if you will do something like that:

[Some script, for example "wait 1 turns"]
End on room exit
turn into monster

It will work. I consider it as bug, but ehh...

Thanks for reporting this. Eytan posted a bug report, and I've fixed this so the top script will work in 2.0.15.

skell
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Thanks Mrimer . It will be nice.

And Oneiromancer, as you've pointed it is possible to be done already, though it is not exacly what I'd like. And as you noticed I also can agree, that the "Aggresivness(Not sure how to write this word) level" will make the scripting something more than the basic idea was. But it would allow to create your own monsters, even if in really restricted way XD.

NiroZ, I meant, that when you have NPC walking somewhere, using the "Move to" command, he passes the player, and the enemies. When the aggresive mode would be turned on, he wouldn't pass you, but rather kill you. Look at this:

.......... ..........
.......... ..........
....*..*.. ..........
.N**P**E** .N**P**E**
.......... ..........
.......... ..........
Normal B.  Aggres. B.

N - npc
. - floor
P - Player
E - Enemy

In the second example he would move onto he enemy and kill him, and onto Beethro and kill him. Like normal enemies. Hope It is clear now.

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NiroZ
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skell wrote:
Thanks Mrimer . It will be nice.

And Oneiromancer, as you've pointed it is possible to be done already, though it is not exacly what I'd like. And as you noticed I also can agree, that the "Aggresivness(Not sure how to write this word) level" will make the scripting something more than the basic idea was. But it would allow to create your own monsters, even if in really restricted way XD.

NiroZ, I meant, that when you have NPC walking somewhere, using the "Move to" command, he passes the player, and the enemies. When the aggresive mode would be turned on, he wouldn't pass you, but rather kill you. Look at this:

.......... ..........
.......... ..........
....*..*.. ..........
.N**P**E** .N**P**E**
.......... ..........
.......... ..........
Normal B.  Aggres. B.

N - npc
. - floor
P - Player
E - Enemy

In the second example he would move onto he enemy and kill him, and onto Beethro and kill him. Like normal enemies. Hope It is clear now.

If your talking about guard characters, that already happens. As for other characters, for the sake of consistency, its better if it doesn't happen. Suddenly discovering that a character can kill you is not a nice surpise.

Anyway, as for a monster generator, it would be cool if it was created, but the amount of work needed to create such a thing would not be worth it. Just imagine, first you would have to tell it how large it is, what parts of it are vulnerable, how it moves towards things, how other characters affect it, how it affects other characters, does it expand, shrink or move? how does it approach beethro, how does it react to beethro? what is the ordering pattern it uses when in a group? The ablilty to get a monster to react just as you want it is beyond the scope of my imagination.

skell
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Nah. That's not what I meant. I meant a normal NPC (For example roach) which instead of go around you, he would go THROUGH you and therefore make you dead. And the same goes for enemies, pff...

The "*" was meant as the way enemy goes, geeze, I think I forgot to notice it.



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