ErikH2000
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2794
Registered: 02-04-2003
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Mike has asked me to work on an improved version of DROD. While I'm not officially returning to Caravel, I will be working closely with Caravel on this particular effort.

When I look at the games, I'm mostly happy with them. But there is one big problem... too many features.

I've said it before... we don't need so many ways to open doors. Pressure plates should suffice. Orbs? Don't need them.

How many kinds of snakes are there? 3 or 4 at least. That's too many!

I've lost track of all the tar variants. What was wrong with just original tar?

So my goal is to get the game back to something simpler and more approachable to new players. To do this...

1. Each month we will choose one feature to remove from the game.
2. The DROD executable will receive a list of cut features from CaravelNet and disable them in the game. In the editor, the feature won't be available. In the game, the feature will just be removed from the room.
3. Architects can use the month to revise their holds to exclude the new feature and test it out. So there is a grace period here.

I wanted to start this month, but I think people need a chance to prepare. Also, I'd like to get some ideas for the first feature to cut in May. I'm thinking spiders. They're basically the same as roaches, but hard to see.

What do you guys want to cut in May?

-Erik



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Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3640
Registered: 10-06-2005
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ErikH2000 wrote:
What do you guys want to cut in May?

We should get rid of force arrows. It's too hard to remember what directions they actually prevent you from moving, and they clearly violate our realism policy by blocking travel in one direction for no good physical reason. They also have a ton of exceptions: swords and platforms can pass through them, briar can grow against it, and Beethro can ignore them if he makes a successful move that takes him into a new room.

I suspect we can all do without them anyway.

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[Last edited by Chaco at 04-01-2015 07:55 PM]

Pearls
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 772
Registered: 12-21-2009
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File: cuttable.png (64 KB)
Downloaded 888 times.
License: Public Domain

I propose we cut the following.



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[Last edited by Pearls at 04-01-2015 07:56 PM]

hyperme
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1143
Registered: 06-23-2006
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This cutting business seems awful confusing! When in the movement order are the elements removed from the room? Can I still use scripting to generate a removed element? Are elements removed every turn, or just on the first?

I think we need to simplify this process by first cutting cuts.

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RoboBob3000
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1980
Registered: 10-23-2003
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ErikH2000 wrote:
Also, I'd like to get some ideas for the first feature to cut in May. I'm thinking spiders. They're basically the same as roaches, but hard to see.

But that's the best thing about spiders! They're a natural evolution of the roach element.

Have you considered removing roaches instead? The existence of spiders makes them redundant.

Like I've always said, if you really want to use roaches in your holds, it's much easier to create them through scripting commands than it is to continue relying on Caravel to provide support for an outdated mechanic.

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Lucky Luc
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1215
Registered: 08-19-2012
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Clearly Walls. I mean, we already have obstacles, which are basically the same thing. Really, is there anything walls can do that obstacles can't?

Okay, there's seep puzzles.

Let's remove seep, too!

Jacob
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3749
Registered: 10-01-2004
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Cut the player role - just let the monsters do their own thing.

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Dragon Fogel
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 2456
Registered: 06-21-2014
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You're all thinking too small. There's one feature that's common to all of the worst rooms, every single one of them, and we should be cutting that one out first.

Namely, rooms.

Think about it - can you name even one room you hated that could have existed without rooms? Get rid of rooms and you solve almost all of the problems in one fell swoop.

RabidChild
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 720
Registered: 01-15-2006
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Hmm, it might be too hard to have deadly death without any rooms. I propose we get rid of doors. I can't remember how many times I've wanted to continue a hold but been blocked by a pesky green door. Or some other type of door. All they do is get in the way, so who needs 'em?

disoriented
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2394
Registered: 08-07-2007
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But do we really need deadly death? It seems redundant somehow.



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Pearls
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 772
Registered: 12-21-2009
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File: cuttable2.png (45 KB)
Downloaded 839 times.
License: Public Domain

Can we cut this?



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disoriented
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2394
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Pearls wrote:
Can we cut this?

Script a new weapon: the chain-saw.

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[Last edited by disoriented at 04-02-2015 02:56 AM]

Chaco
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3640
Registered: 10-06-2005
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RabidChild wrote:
Hmm, it might be too hard to have deadly death without any rooms. I propose we get rid of doors. I can't remember how many times I've wanted to continue a hold but been blocked by a pesky green door. Or some other type of door. All they do is get in the way, so who needs 'em?

Myself and some friends thought this was a pretty good idea, so we time-travelled and did it seven and a half years ago.

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Doom
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 3260
Registered: 07-05-2004
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Hey Erik, I'm excited to see this new and improved DROD.

After careful thought I vote for removing the restart feature, otherwise known as the 'R' button. It's well known that it's too close to the 'Q' and 'W' buttons, as it's one of the most common complaints from new players.

Not to mention the feature is redundant now, because pressing undo a bunch of times does the same thing.

disoriented
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2394
Registered: 08-07-2007
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Why do we need the 'W' button at all? We already have 'Q' and it's clear that pressing it a few extra times is sufficient to end up one position clockwise.

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Dischorran
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 3413
Registered: 09-10-2005
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Cut Stalwarts (and soldiers while you're at it). They're just a crutch for people who can't manipulate guards properly.

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TripleM
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1377
Registered: 02-05-2003
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Cut lasses.

Pearls
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 772
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File: jmnba.gif (172.9 KB)
Downloaded 713 times.
License: Public Domain

Guys, guys please.



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RyTracer
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 86
Registered: 11-01-2013
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I'm thinking the name "Deadly Rooms of Death" is too long. Let's take out the first E,A,D,L,Y,R,S, the third O, first F, second D,E,A, and first T,H. Let's combine some other things to make fewer items. The bad guys can be roaches mixed with goblins, and Beethro can mix his dart gun with an aumtlich beam. I think you'd get something like this:



Which is a nice original concept for a game.

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RoboBob3000
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1980
Registered: 10-23-2003
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One more feature that I'd totally like to see removed: The ability to step south-east. Seriously, does anybody actually move in that direction?

I've played DROD for over 25 years and I haven't once encountered a room where I've needed to step SE. It's superfluous and confusing for new players.

I haven't done the legwork, but I bet there's a proof out there that will show that no room requires the player to take any steps SE. I'll leave it to the more mathematically-minded here to puzzle that one out. Once we prove its uselessness, we can then feel comfortable about safely removing it from the game.

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[Last edited by RoboBob3000 at 04-01-2015 11:31 PM]

Someone Else
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2334
Registered: 06-14-2005
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Actually, I'm really attached to the SE direction. Whenever I get the opportunity to do so, I step SE. Facing SE is also a HUGE component of how I solve rooms.

I really think that pits should be removed. The worst feeling, in my mind, is to be dropping trapdoors left and right and realize that you're trapped. Just imagine how great it would be if you dropped a trapdoor and... no pit! Don't remove trapdoors, though. They're the best.

Tim
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1979
Registered: 08-07-2004
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Oh, those rope things. I mean, who put ropes on the floor? Besides, they burn when you step on them. It's not like my shoes are made of matches or something. Completely ridiculous.

Let's just Cut the Rope. (Oops, wrong game... Let's get back to lurking mode then...)

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reyll3
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 33
Registered: 01-01-2007
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You want it to be simple? Just remove the level editor!

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Jeff_Ray...
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 962
Registered: 05-16-2005
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reyll3 wrote:
You want it to be simple? Just remove the level editor!

I disagree. In fact, let's remove the game and have DROD be just the level editor. Level editors are generally not too complex to use, so people won't get lost trying to make sense of things.

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Pinnacle
Level: Smitemaster

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Registered: 06-10-2004
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Jeff_Ray... wrote:

reyll3 wrote:
You want it to be simple? Just remove the level editor!

I disagree. In fact, let's remove the game and have DROD be just the level editor. Level editors are generally not too complex to use, so people won't get lost trying to make sense of things.

Especially if the game is removed, since then you don't even need to worry about the levels you make being functional!

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disoriented
Level: Smitemaster

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File: drod_tut.png (116 KB)
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RoboBob3000 wrote:

I've played DROD for over 25 years and I haven't once encountered a room where I've needed to step SE. It's superfluous and confusing for new players.

I assume you never got past the tutorial?


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[Last edited by disoriented at 04-02-2015 05:29 AM]

rowrow
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 432
Registered: 08-17-2004
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disoriented wrote:

RoboBob3000 wrote:

I've played DROD for over 25 years and I haven't once encountered a room where I've needed to step SE. It's superfluous and confusing for new players.

I assume you never got past the tutorial?

Robo meant SW

But in all seriousness, I think the sword should be cut (pun intended). If Beethro can't kill a simple thing like a roach or snake with his bare hands, he should have his Smitemaster's license revoked. No joke!

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[Last edited by rowrow at 04-02-2015 08:11 AM]

NoahT
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1138
Registered: 06-17-2003
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I see no one has yet suggested removing floors. Most monsters cross floors to reach the player, so they are really just a dangerous nuisance with no useful redeeming qualities.

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Jacob
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3749
Registered: 10-01-2004
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Essentially, DROD is just a load of 1s and 0s, and when, you think about it, the 0s aren't really adding much to the game.

I'd suggest removing them - the installation file will be much smaller and the game should run a lot quicker.

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NoahT
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1138
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I would also suggest removing Beethro. There would be a lot less killing if he weren't always showing up to smite every monster he sees, and no one would have to look at or smell him again.

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