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Lucky Luc
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That I'm probably gonna fail my semester because I can't stop playing it and should do so much other stuff instead.

More seriously (though I'm really a bit afraid of that), the only points of critisicm I have so far (being about halfway through with the main game I think) is that the difficulty curve seems slightly uneven and that I'm not sure if I can go back to earlier levels later. Only minor things though.
06-26-2014 at 08:12 PM
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Jacob
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Lucky Luc wrote: I'm not sure if I can go back to earlier levels later. Only minor things though.
In most cases you can. The reasoning behind the ones you can't should be clear from plot considerations, but none of them contain any essentials such as unlockables or rooms that determine story or completion.

Of course, they may contain secret rooms, but mastery does not depend on having all secrets completed in a single save game state, so this should never be an issue.

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06-26-2014 at 10:26 PM
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hyperme
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So, the spoiler is a spoiler for the level LCS. If you don't know what that level is, don't open the spoiler!



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06-27-2014 at 11:04 AM
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Pearls
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You know, hyperme makes a really good point.

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06-27-2014 at 03:40 PM
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azb
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I actually do have a minor complaint about the TSS official hold.
In levels like Training Hall, it is not immediately obvious that you can toggle force arrows, leaving you wandering around for hours wondering how to get past the force arrows in 1N1W in order to make 1N2W solvable.

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06-27-2014 at 03:45 PM
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Jacob
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Fair enough - but there are only about 4 rooms in TH you can actually wander around in at that point.

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06-27-2014 at 03:51 PM
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TripleM
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I'm only part way through TSS - so far there's only one thing that I could classify as something I don't like, and that's the level entrance texts. Has been a while since I've played previous official holds, but they feel considerably longer (more so if you like the voice acting) and don't seem to have the same catchy humour that makes me want to stick around to read them.

Obviously, I can skip them, but the fact I want to and have ended up doing so without really reading them at all makes me feel like they could have been better. May just be me.
06-28-2014 at 05:16 AM
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skell
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TripleM wrote:
I'm only part way through TSS - so far there's only one thing that I could classify as something I don't like, and that's the level entrance texts. Has been a while since I've played previous official holds, but they feel considerably longer (more so if you like the voice acting) and don't seem to have the same catchy humour that makes me want to stick around to read them.
I kinda liked the fact that they are less humorous and more about the actual lore of the world.

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06-28-2014 at 08:30 AM
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Zaratustra00
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One minus: Here and there are rooms that require knowledge of DROD's "hidden" rules like monster priority. I feel these are only liked by the truly hardcore puzzle solvers and should be kept to custom holds.
06-28-2014 at 12:47 PM
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azb
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Another thing that bugs me about the hold: Puzzles stolen from other games that subtract from what makes DROD unique, such as Sudoko puzzles, and [TSS spoilers]
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Don't get me wrong, I love TSS, but I think the not-DROD puzzles are inappropriate in the regular hold and should be reserved for the mastery area.

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[Last edited by azb at 06-28-2014 05:43 PM]
06-28-2014 at 05:43 PM
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Pearls
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I'll talk more about my approach to intro texts some other time, but I generally agree they could've been better.

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06-28-2014 at 05:47 PM
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Pinnacle
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Mixing in elements from other games doesn't subtract from what makes DROD unique. LB is distinctly and unquestionably a DROD level. It applies the core mechanics of DROD and only changes the objective. If the existence of tangram-like puzzles in TCB didn't detract from what makes DROD what it is, why does LB?

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06-28-2014 at 06:32 PM
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Banjooie
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I am mildly baffled because I don't recall DROD having a Sudoku puzzle anywhere in it, and LB isn't anything like the game you're saying it is.

Unless you mean SOS, in which case I thought it was a fun gimmick level.
06-28-2014 at 08:31 PM
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adS
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In many rooms the placement of checkpoints is not good or there are none at all.

Sometimes they are ridiculous:



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06-28-2014 at 08:34 PM
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hyperme
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You know if you're going to complain about checkpoints, pick a room where the placement is actually bad instead of one where the checkpoint is conveniently near where you're pulling monsters from.

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06-28-2014 at 08:36 PM
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gamer_extreme_101
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Very minor, but... [Chapter Six Spoilers]
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06-28-2014 at 09:05 PM
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Pinnacle
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I'm not there yet, but why not make AL's map node yellow? (If it already is, then I wouldn't agree that it isn't obviously optional)

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[Last edited by Pinnacle at 06-28-2014 09:14 PM]
06-28-2014 at 09:11 PM
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bomber50
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AL isn't directly accessible from the map.
06-28-2014 at 09:15 PM
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adS
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hyperme wrote:
You know if you're going to complain about checkpoints, pick a room where the placement is actually bad instead of one where the checkpoint is conveniently near where you're pulling monsters from.

This is a single example. There are lots of others.

Anyway, I have no idea why anybody should place a checkpoint at such a ridiculous place.

I don't don't want checkpoint conveniently near anything.
I want checkpoints for optimizing - if possible.

adS

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06-28-2014 at 09:24 PM
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bomber50
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The checkpoint, I can agree, is somewhat ridiculous.

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06-28-2014 at 09:27 PM
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Zaratustra00
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Checkpoints where you need to step two squares away and lose your careful timing are a DROD mainstay.
06-28-2014 at 09:58 PM
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karlpopper
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Yeah, I've come think that a checkpoint temptingly placed in such a way to make a timed lynchpin fail is an architect's delight.

They rabidly oppose multiple undo, too.

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06-28-2014 at 11:37 PM
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Jatopian
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Zaratustra00 wrote:
Checkpoints where you need to step two squares away and lose your careful timing are a DROD mainstay.
Not a mainstay so much as a holdover from the early days when DROD was free and caring about move count was the province of rare special contests. At the time it didn't matter if you stepped out of your way for a checkpoint, so long as it didn't actually set you back in solving the puzzle. Nowadays more enlightened architects do their best to put checkpoints where you'd step on them anyway, but good checkpointing is hard to master and in any case takes a backseat to making fun puzzles. But hey, there's UU now, so you have that going for you.

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06-29-2014 at 12:24 AM
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Jacob
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adS wrote:
This is a single example. There are lots of others.

Anyway, I have no idea why anybody should place a checkpoint at such a ridiculous place.

I don't don't want checkpoint conveniently near anything.
I want checkpoints for optimizing - if possible.

adS

If you make a list, maybe we can improve this in a later version.. we certainly did try and went through the hold a few times to check these things.

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[Last edited by Jacob at 06-29-2014 12:34 AM]
06-29-2014 at 12:33 AM
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bomber50
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You probably could add a checkpoint to that room. You know...

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06-29-2014 at 12:37 AM
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bomber50
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Though the TSS hold wasn't great, it wasn't perfect.

I thought the hold was not entirely cohesive. Not all the levels I thought entirely fit with each other. The difficulty level also felt a little off, with TSP/FH being late-game jokes, while SM is a mid-game MONSTER.

Also, a very small number of rooms also feel/felt significantly tedious. Examples: ES(1): 1W, RF: 2S, FB: 5N

Some rooms also managed to get on my nerves.
[Last edited by bomber50 at 06-29-2014 05:31 AM]
06-29-2014 at 05:28 AM
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billbuckner
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Past the very first level, the game seems to assume you have knowledge of every single element in DROD so far- which is fine, except why bother with the tutorial in the first level then? A friend of mine got stuck for a long time because he didn't know how hot tiles worked, for instance, yet the first level assumes that you don't even know how roach movement works yet. It's a bit weird.
[Last edited by billbuckner at 06-29-2014 06:04 AM]
06-29-2014 at 06:03 AM
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Banjooie
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They do give you a very brief introduction to hot tiles when you're talking to Arky for the first time, but.
06-29-2014 at 07:14 AM
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lordatog
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The only thing I don't like so far is that the deep water and shallow water in Caught in an Eddy are almost impossible to tell apart. I could easily be missing a secret path over the water and I'd never know.
06-29-2014 at 08:11 AM
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Banjooie
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Huh. With the weather reflection, I can see how some people would have an issue with it.
06-29-2014 at 06:42 PM
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