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tjcbs
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8 YEARS ago I tried playing this game (King Dugan's Dungeon), and I enjoyed it until one particular level brought things to a screeching halt and I gave up.

Now, older, wiser, seasoned, I've reached it again. Once again, the game came to a screeching halt.

Which level? 8, 2 south, 2 east. The one that requires you to spend all day mopping up tar.

I normally *NEVER* cheat on these kind of games. But I have no problem skipping this level. It is beneath my dignity as a human being.

I know there are no cheats, but... maybe someone has released a modded version that lets you skip levels?? Please?
05-31-2014 at 08:07 PM
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tjcbs
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Ok ok so the great tar battle has been won :D
05-31-2014 at 08:41 PM
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tjcbs
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And what do I get as reward? Another godawful, abusive tar level. This one even worse (3s, 3e). [Golly gee darn] it, tar ruined this game.

[Last edited by Schik at 05-31-2014 09:09 PM]
05-31-2014 at 08:58 PM
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Pinnacle
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Tar takes a little bit of getting used to, but once you get how it works, it's very easy to deal with.

EDIT: Just reached level 5 of Beethro's Teacher. I was wrong.

And if this level gets you that mad, I'm curious to see what level 17 would do.

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[Last edited by Pinnacle at 06-01-2014 05:54 AM]
05-31-2014 at 09:09 PM
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TFMurphy
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A more important question would be "are you playing KDD in Architect's Edition", or in one of the demo versions of the sequels? It's *strongly* suggested you at least upgrade to the latest demo version, as Architect's Edition lacks many of the niceties of the later versions, like the ability to Undo moves, or make Tar transparent.

The demo of Gunthro and the Epic Blunder would be a good starting point, and you can download the hold of King Dugan's Dungeon from the forum itself. You can also export your progress from Architect's Edition and import it straight into the updated engine, and thus lose no progress.
05-31-2014 at 09:23 PM
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Jacob
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There are literally hundreds of other holds out there to play. You don't have to play that one.

Welcome to the forum. Don't swear. There are kids here too.

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05-31-2014 at 09:52 PM
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Banjooie
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I normally blame this on it being the new Kid of the forum, but I got nothing this time.
05-31-2014 at 10:05 PM
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TheEpickz98
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I love tar and mud and gel :D i am also going to enjoy the new one as well. The Tar's have many unique features. That is why I love them, learn the characteristics of each and then consult it in a different way, such as don't always aim at one spot in a tar infested room, I think the admins and mrimer tried to avoid that, noticing the lack of it in the city beneath (Big let down for me) So anyway, keep it balanced and keep aware of the time in the level. Also letting it expand out is not always the best, try to keep it contained. If not try the least number of moves to deal with it. (Not bumping into unnecessary walls.)
05-31-2014 at 10:35 PM
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ErikH2000
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There is a cheat available.

Click here to view the secret text


Voila!

-Erik

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05-31-2014 at 10:38 PM
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Pinnacle
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TheEpickz98 wrote:
I love tar and mud and gel :D i am also going to enjoy the new one as well. The Tar's have many unique features. That is why I love them, learn the characteristics of each and then consult it in a different way, such as don't always aim at one spot in a tar infested room, I think the admins and mrimer tried to avoid that, noticing the lack of it in the city beneath (Big let down for me) So anyway, keep it balanced and keep aware of the time in the level. Also letting it expand out is not always the best, try to keep it contained. If not try the least number of moves to deal with it. (Not bumping into unnecessary walls.)

If you want an even better appreciation of tarstuff, try out Goo. Even if you can't solve a single room (I can't) it will definitely show off what these elements are capable of.

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Once (adv.): Enough.
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~Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

[Last edited by Pinnacle at 05-31-2014 10:46 PM]
05-31-2014 at 10:44 PM
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Jatopian
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Jacob wrote:
Don't swear. There are kids here too.
This is actually not what the forum rules say, surprisingly. http://forum.caravelgames.com/forumfaq.php#swearing

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06-01-2014 at 03:51 AM
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Pinnacle
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Jatopian wrote:
Jacob wrote:
Don't swear. There are kids here too.
This is actually not what the forum rules say, surprisingly. http://forum.caravelgames.com/forumfaq.php#swearing

Well, "Except if it's ****. Or ****. Don't use those." applied to the post in question. It's still flawlessly consistent.

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06-01-2014 at 04:03 AM
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Dischorran
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Well, ****.

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06-01-2014 at 04:30 AM
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Jeff_Ray...
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Oh for quadruple asterisks' sake...

*look of exasperation*

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06-01-2014 at 04:40 AM
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mtuan
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A lot of my friends also stop playing AE when reaching level 8. With much cursing and swearing, of course.

Some of them persist, and they have to swear again at level 11, and throw obscenities at level 13. :lol

[Last edited by mtuan at 06-01-2014 05:31 AM]
06-01-2014 at 05:30 AM
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tjcbs
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Well I made it through 8. OK so maybe it wasn't thaaat bad. I still don't like tar, it seriously makes me anxious. How often does tar come up in the rest of the game?

If I ever make it to 17, I will no doubt use Erik's "cheat code" :)

[Last edited by tjcbs at 06-01-2014 05:39 AM]
06-01-2014 at 05:39 AM
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Banjooie
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You'll get used to tar eventually. You get really, really fast at clearing it.
06-01-2014 at 05:44 AM
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balanemate
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ErikH2000 wrote:
There is a cheat available.
-Erik

well.... also there is easier way.
Click here to view the secret text


Shame to say, i did it fews time in very complex holds just for story sake. I wanted to see the end and was super tired from retries

bn
06-01-2014 at 08:33 PM
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Jeff_Ray...
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balanemate wrote:
ErikH2000 wrote:
There is a cheat available.
-Erik

well.... also there is easier way.
Click here to view the secret text


Shame to say, i did it fews time in very complex holds just for story sake. I wanted to see the end and was super tired from retries

bn
I do certainly hope this doesn't create any "valid" demos, because if it did then that would just be a terrible thing that I don't condone.

But I doubt it.

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06-01-2014 at 08:50 PM
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skell
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Jeff_Ray... wrote:
I do certainly hope this doesn't create any "valid" demos, because if it did then that would just be a terrible thing that I don't condone.

But I doubt it.
We render the demo gameplay as a gif and print, caption and sent them to the perpetrator via snail mail.

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06-01-2014 at 08:57 PM
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Banjooie
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It wouldn't. All that's submitted to the spider is a list of moves, that the spider then attempts to enact.
06-01-2014 at 10:16 PM
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tjcbs
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mtuan wrote:
Some of them persist, and they have to swear again at level 11...

What do you know... it's tar-based.
06-02-2014 at 01:34 AM
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Banjooie
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Look, I understand. I honestly do. This entire forum knows my feelings regarding the exciting world of serpent manipulation.

Play non-KDD holds for a while. I promise, it helps.
06-02-2014 at 03:16 AM
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mtuan
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tjcbs wrote: What do you know... it's tar-based.

Exactly, they swear for the same reason. :lol


06-02-2014 at 05:39 AM
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Jacob
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Every element/monster has the potential to be used well or poorly and this is down to the architect. It therefore doesn't make sense to assume that just because a level or room has tar in it that it will be less fun, or tedious, or bad.

Tar, used well, can be used for interesting tar cutting puzzles, as a timer, for limiting player movement in a particular directions but not others (e.g. to make a maze), for generating tar babies for use elsewhere in a puzzle, in order to manipulate other elements (e.g blocking their movement) etc etc.

Used poorly it can obscure other elements (hiding walls or trapdoors underneath is very annoying), used for hack-and-slash (e.g. generating tons of tar babies every 30 turns), or used for a tedious slog through tons of tar with multiple tar mothers.

The same applies for the use of snakes, stalwarts, briar, whatever and obviously the delineation between the two categories will vary between architects and players.

KDD was the very first level set ever so there hadn't been the opportunity to make this refinement to see which puzzle types worked or didn't. In my opinion, it's not the greatest introduction to DROD. (Some of these issues are improved upon in the Flash version however).

Don't get me wrong - it is not bad, given that it was the first hold ever, and it does have its good parts, however you may be better off looking at other holds to get more out of DROD.



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06-02-2014 at 12:37 PM
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Jeff_Ray...
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I agree with Jacob. I've heard people say that Journey to Rooted Hold is a much better introduction to the series. It's more refined, the annoying tar sections are more limited from what I recall, and it does a good job at having a difficulty curve that showcases the elements correctly.

There's also Gunthro and the Epic Blunder, which is more tailored to beginners. There isn't any tar in it, if that makes you happier. :P

Of course, you'll have to shell out money to play them, but I'd say it's well worth the price. You'll only have to purchase GatEB though, since you'll be able to play JtRH through it (with CaravelNet, which gives a 1 month free subscription on purchase). Not too sure though.

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06-02-2014 at 02:56 PM
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mrimer
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Jeff_Ray... wrote:
Of course, you'll have to shell out money to play them, but I'd say it's well worth the price. You'll only have to purchase GatEB though, since you'll be able to play JtRH through it (with CaravelNet, which gives a 1 month free subscription on purchase). Not too sure though.
You need to have JtRH registered to your account in order to play it in the GatEB/4.0 engine.

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06-02-2014 at 03:03 PM
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Nuntar
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Hope we're not overburdening you with information and choices, but I should mention that if you're considering starting JtRH, you might want to wait a bit and play it in the 5.0 engine when it's released, which has some awesome features that will greatly enhance your DROD experience.

You can also continue playing KDD in the 5.0 engine, and if you export your player file and import it into 5.0, you won't lose any progress. Both 4.0 and 5.0 offer translucent tar, which will make KDD Level 11 much less painful. Also, playing KDD or any other AE hold in 5.0, the Lava and Catacombs styles are mapped to the new Caldera and Greenhouse styles, which have really awesome graphics and music.

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06-02-2014 at 05:19 PM
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tjcbs
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Yup, I think I'm done with KDD for now. These goblins are just too much. There is one room that is like a goblin master class, which is just way beyond me. I guess it is onward to JtRH.

I don't see how level 11 is even possible without translucent tar. I had to download a hack, I wasn't able to figure out how to import my progress into GatEB. It seemed to work successfully, but it would always start me over from the beginning. I was kind of reluctant anyway, because I *love* the music in KDD, and I didn't want to give it up.

I guess my biggest gripe is that there is too much emphasis on player punishment vs puzzle solving, but maybe that is just frustration talking.
06-04-2014 at 04:44 AM
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Jeff_Ray...
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The player punishment vs puzzle solving thing is more prevalent in KDD than in later holds. As many said, KDD was the first hold, so it's pretty rough around the edges. JtRH, and later installments, are much more puzzle oriented, though there may be the odd unpleasant room. They're not all winners. :P

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06-04-2014 at 05:05 AM
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