SbCl3
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 61
Registered: 02-13-2005
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Oh dear...1 puzzle a month? They must be puzzles so thought out that they must take equal time to complete

agaricus5
Level: Smitemaster
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SbCl3 wrote:
Oh dear...1 puzzle a month? They must be puzzles so thought out that they must take equal time to complete

Well...

Not really. One puzzle per month is a bit of an exaggeration, I must admit, but I'm sort of aiming for quality at the present moment, which accounts for the slow building process. Once the foundations are laid, and I'm more happy with how the hold is being structured, then it should speed up a little. On average, I guess that if I take 6 hours to build a room (including playtesting), the target audience should be able to complete it in less than 1.

I may be looking for private testers for the hold (I don't want to spoil the fun of JtRH by putting it on the Architecture board too soon), so I may be posting a notice on the Architecture board some time later.

____________________________
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schep
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 865
Registered: 03-01-2005
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I've been replaying Bavato's, since the first time through was back in the days I left the demo autosave feature unchecked. Did some of the orb connections in L3 1N change since version 50? Because it now seems less ... possible.... Maybe I missed something (several times), but I don't think I could get to the SE corner and back out even if there were no tar or monsters.

PS: I might have put this on Hints & Solutions, but the search page has been giving me trouble with this hold. Here's good too.

schep
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 865
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I went back and checked an older version and the changelog, and L3 1N did indeed change. I'm afraid it's impossible now. L5 Entrance also seems impossible, since there's no way to get to the tar babies between 1 and 2.

I know, agaricus5, you asked for stuff like this a month ago, and you're busy with other things now. But now it'll be on record if/when you do come back to Bavato's.

agaricus5
Level: Smitemaster
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schep wrote:
I went back and checked an older version and the changelog, and L3 1N did indeed change. I'm afraid it's impossible now. L5 Entrance also seems impossible, since there's no way to get to the tar babies between 1 and 2.

I know, agaricus5, you asked for stuff like this a month ago, and you're busy with other things now. But now it'll be on record if/when you do come back to Bavato's.

Oh dear.

It's what happens when you try to do things in two different versions of DROD at the same time. Some upgrading took place in the 2.0 version (to take advantage of advanced playtest features), and re-transferring it (manually) back to 1.6 was where data got a bit lost.

I'll sort it out.

Edit: The hold cannot be upgraded for now. I'm sorry. Just ignore the rooms (L5 is going to be impossible to upload scores for) for now.

I'm really sorry about all these problems. I guess I'm sometimes just too careless to build holds.

[Edited by agaricus5 at Local Time:05-01-2005 at 05:58 PM]

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agaricus5
Level: Smitemaster
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agaricus5 wrote:

schep wrote:
I went back and checked an older version and the changelog, and L3 1N did indeed change. I'm afraid it's impossible now. L5 Entrance also seems impossible, since there's no way to get to the tar babies between 1 and 2.

I know, agaricus5, you asked for stuff like this a month ago, and you're busy with other things now. But now it'll be on record if/when you do come back to Bavato's.

Oh dear.

It's what happens when you try to do things in two different versions of DROD at the same time. Some upgrading took place in the 2.0 version (to take advantage of advanced playtest features), and re-transferring it (manually) back to 1.6 was where data got a bit lost.

I'll sort it out.

Umm...

I believe it's been upgraded now (Note to self: This had better be the last time this happens!)

Anyone with an older version will need to upgrade to upload demos and scores, but you shouldn't have to re-play any rooms, except L2 1S, L3 1N, L5 Entrance and L13 6E. I've also repositioned level entrances so that there aren't any victory demos for those empty rooms (which will probably upset some and please others).

I don't think, apart from those, that there have been any other main changes, although if you do notice anything, then you're welcome to notify me. If this hold does indeed turn out to be bugless, then I shall not be upgrading it any more.

Ever.

I guess that's all for now. Enjoy Bavato's Dungeon!

[Edited by agaricus5 at Local Time:05-14-2005 at 03:03 PM]

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agaricus5
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1838
Registered: 02-04-2003
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Just a quick note:

If you complete L9 1N 4E before 3E and leave by the south exit, you cannot complete the level without using a restore or using the warp room to skip to L10. Apologies for that; I never noticed the problem until larrymurk pointed it out to me just now.

I won't be updating the hold for now, unless there is some way to do it without affecting demos and highscores on Caravel.net.

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Schik
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 5381
Registered: 02-04-2003
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agaricus5 wrote:
I won't be updating the hold for now, unless there is some way to do it without affecting demos and highscores on Caravel.net.

If you update the hold, the Spider will re-verify all demos and mark them as valid, assuming they all still work. Users will not need to re-upload their demos to get the high scores back.


____________________________
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way it treats its animals.
--Mahatma Gandhi

agaricus5
Level: Smitemaster
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Schik wrote:

agaricus5 wrote:
I won't be updating the hold for now, unless there is some way to do it without affecting demos and highscores on Caravel.net.

If you update the hold, the Spider will re-verify all demos and mark them as valid, assuming they all still work. Users will not need to re-upload their demos to get the high scores back.

Will an older version still be accepted as the current version, or will people still need to update the hold before they can upload new scores or download demos?

If it's the latter, then I'd rather not for now, since it's probably more trouble to get everyone to update their copies than it's worth.

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Schik
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 5381
Registered: 02-04-2003
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agaricus5 wrote:
Will an older version still be accepted as the current version, or will people still need to update the hold before they can upload new scores or download demos?

The latter.

____________________________
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way it treats its animals.
--Mahatma Gandhi

larrymurk
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1911
Registered: 12-09-2004
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This hold hardly needs any more fanfare but I must at least thank Wesley for this thoroughly entertaining hold. Words it brings to mind are 10, classic, colossal, awesome, you get the point. Almost every room is a great challenge (often taking me hours and over 1000 moves).



2 Stairs notes-
Stairs at Level 3: Entrance lead to itself instead of Level 2.
Stairs at Level 9: Entrance can not be reached.

agaricus5
Level: Smitemaster
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Registered: 02-04-2003
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larrymurk wrote:
This hold hardly needs any more fanfare but I must at least thank Wesley for this thoroughly entertaining hold. Words it brings to mind are 10, classic, colossal, awesome, you get the point. Almost every room is a great challenge (often taking me hours and over 1000 moves).

Thanks! I'm glad you enjoyed it.

Stairs at Level 3: Entrance lead to itself instead of Level 2.

That's strange. I'm sure I had all those stairs checked (although maybe there was some relic of the Stairs Reset Bug still hanging around). It's only a backwards stair, though, so I'll probably just leave it for now. Thanks for noticing it for me, though.

Stairs at Level 9: Entrance can not be reached.

That's intentional; the storyline goes that Tolbus, once he enters the main dungeon area that existed before the building of the surface connection, gets trapped on L9, and is therefore unable to return to the surface via the route he came by.

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Hammerite
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 44
Registered: 07-13-2005
IP: Logged

Hello,

I have been enjoying this hold very much up to this point - I find that I cannot work out what to do on level 6 once north twice east. I don't ask for help on it since I would still like to do it myself. But what I wanted to say was that I think it could do with another checkpoint: near to the last orb, the one which when you strike it the mother roach will run away. Perhaps two tiles north and three east of that orb? I think a checkpoint here would be helpful because since the room appears to be an "efficiency" type room, if you screw up after striking the orb, you have to revert to a point two orbs back, and then go through a detailed procedure to return to the last orb efficiently, which gets rather tedious! But stepping over that tile that I suggested does not decrease one's efficiency.

Thank you for the hold as a whole, by the way. It's just that this room is getting a bit irksome.

agaricus5
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1838
Registered: 02-04-2003
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Hammerite wrote:
Hello,

I have been enjoying this hold very much up to this point - I find that I cannot work out what to do on level 6 once north twice east. I don't ask for help on it since I would still like to do it myself. But what I wanted to say was that I think it could do with another checkpoint: near to the last orb, the one which when you strike it the mother roach will run away. Perhaps two tiles north and three east of that orb? I think a checkpoint here would be helpful because since the room appears to be an "efficiency" type room, if you screw up after striking the orb, you have to revert to a point two orbs back, and then go through a detailed procedure to return to the last orb efficiently, which gets rather tedious! But stepping over that tile that I suggested does not decrease one's efficiency.

I see what you mean - it would be convenient to have a checkpoint there. However, you don't need to be ridiculously efficient when accessing the outer area (if you've not been the most efficient of people when killing the roaches in the inner chambers, it's not a problem) - you only need to beat the spawn timer in the top-left corner.

If that's not enough...



In any case, this room was actually not originally an efficiency room. The timer was added to remove a trivial solution.

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agaricus5
Level: Smitemaster
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subkel wrote:
Okay, I tried to download the updated final version, and it says it's the same as the one I have already loaded. But I don't see how that's possible, the hints search shows the latest, right? But Level 3 1N is different from in the picture. I think it's only at the bottom, doors and one part of the wall, I'm not sure what to do.

That's really strange. Your version of DROD might be a bit corrupted or something went wrong with the importing. Are you sure you imported the correct file?

If you did, and it still doesn't work, try this:

1. Copy all the .dat files in your Data directory (or if you're really not sure, just copy the whole folder), and place the copies somewhere safe.
2. Export your player file from DROD.
3. Delete your current version of Bavato's Dungeon.
4. Import the new version of Bavato's Dungeon.
5. Re-import your player file.
6. Check to see if your savegames have been preserved (they should be, since the hold hasn't changed a great deal, but I'm not sure which version you're using), and then to see if L3 1N is current. If it is not, you've definitely imported the wrong version - be sure to check the number - 56 is the latest version.

If this still doesn't work, then copy your copies back to the original folder and replace the newly edited dats with them to gain back your progress. I would then ask a developer to inspect your dats, since I don't know what else could have gone wrong.

Just a note, I've tried to give up this game several times, and I just can't seem to kick the habit.

Heh. That's pretty much the story of many of the players here. Of course, I do not have a problem myself. Absolutely not.



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spirax
Level: Goblin

Rank Points: 17
Registered: 11-03-2005
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Hi all,

Just wanted to update that problem with level 3 once north - I've downloaded bavato56final.hold from the first page of this topic this month (dec 05) and imported it into DROD Architects edition. This version of the hold gives me the room which seems impossible at LVL3 1N.

That combined with the stairs at the start of level 3 only taking me to level 3 problem means I'm stuck !!

P.S. very good hold otherwise !!

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Dank is my middle name!

agaricus5
Level: Smitemaster
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spirax wrote:
Hi all,

Just wanted to update that problem with level 3 once north - I've downloaded bavato56final.hold from the first page of this topic this month (dec 05) and imported it into DROD Architects edition. This version of the hold gives me the room which seems impossible at LVL3 1N.

Are you sure? That door problem looks fixed to me when I import it into DROD. Also, it seems that several people already have high scores for this room on Caravel.net, so it appears solvable.

That combined with the stairs at the start of level 3 only taking me to level 3 problem means I'm stuck !!

Are your stairs reset? That's really strange, since when I import the hold into JtRH, the exit stairs appear fine. There is, however, a warp room in L1 1W you can use if you can't proceed, which should allow you to reach L4 (if the stairs there are okay).

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spirax
Level: Goblin

Rank Points: 17
Registered: 11-03-2005
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Thanks for the reply agaricus.

Sorry I wasn't clear about my problem with L31N, but my version has the extra bit of wall at the bottom, which ends up creating a 2 x 2 space which becomes impassible when the tar gets there. In the solutions section the picture shows a straight line of wall in the bottom section, with no L shape at the end. That seems to be making the room impossible for me.

I can start from the warp room again, but I'll lose all of the rooms I've completed to that point, which pretty much means starting again doesn't it ?

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Dank is my middle name!

agaricus5
Level: Smitemaster
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spirax wrote:
Thanks for the reply agaricus.

Sorry I wasn't clear about my problem with L31N, but my version has the extra bit of wall at the bottom, which ends up creating a 2 x 2 space which becomes impassible when the tar gets there. In the solutions section the picture shows a straight line of wall in the bottom section, with no L shape at the end. That seems to be making the room impossible for me.

That room preview is quite strange; the current version should have the wall, so I'm guessing the site is a bit buggy.

In answer to the question...



It is difficult to give more explicit hints than that, since this is an exercise in efficient tar manipulation, but...



If you need more help, post on the Hints board or look to see if there are any existing threads on this room already. I think your query will be answered much faster there.

____________________________
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[Last edited by agaricus5 at 01-04-2006 01:22 AM]

spirax
Level: Goblin

Rank Points: 17
Registered: 11-03-2005
IP: Logged

agaricus5 wrote:

spirax wrote:
Thanks for the reply agaricus.

Sorry I wasn't clear about my problem with L31N, but my version has the extra bit of wall at the bottom, which ends up creating a 2 x 2 space which becomes impassible when the tar gets there. In the solutions section the picture shows a straight line of wall in the bottom section, with no L shape at the end. That seems to be making the room impossible for me.

That room preview is quite strange; the current version should have the wall, so I'm guessing the site is a bit buggy.

In answer to the question...

Click here to view the secret text

×...even if the wall was not there, in about two extra spawns, the room will still become impossible.

Click here to view the secret text

×The reason is that this room is an efficiency room; you need to get to the tar mother area before the tar becomes impassible.

Click here to view the secret text

× There are two ways to do this room, one involving total clearance of all tar, and one where you can manipulate the tar so you can leave some behind and still pass it later.

It is difficult to give more explicit hints than that, since this is an exercise in efficient tar manipulation, but...

Click here to view the secret text

×...with reference to the central area, there are walls beneath the tar (and inside the cells), so you need to cut it carefully in order not to leave uncuttable fragments.

If you need more help, post on the Hints board or look to see if there are any existing threads on this room already. I think your query will be answered much faster there.

No worries - shall try again - thanks for your help!!

____________________________
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kingpr
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 29
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

I have played my through the first 2 levels nad yet when I look at my scores it shows this as an unexplored hold (and as I was playing through I wasn't getting any high score information - I just assumed that I was particularly useless at this hold very likely true). However, why can I not see my scores for this level?

Pinnacle
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1129
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kingpr wrote:
I have played my through the first 2 levels nad yet when I look at my scores it shows this as an unexplored hold (and as I was playing through I wasn't getting any high score information - I just assumed that I was particularly useless at this hold very likely true). However, why can I not see my scores for this level?

That happens sometimes: request a new key from the Settings menu, and then put in the key, connect, and click 'Upload Scores'.
That should work.

____________________________
Once (adv.): Enough.
Twice (adv.): Once too often.
~Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

kingpr
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 29
Registered: 02-04-2003
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That happens sometimes: request a new key from the Settings menu, and then put in the key, connect, and click 'Upload Scores'.
That should work.

Done that but it doesn't

michthro
Level: Smitemaestro
Rank Points: 679
Registered: 05-01-2005
IP: Logged

Try this: Export your player, delete Bavato's dungeon, download it again, reimport your player, and then upload your scores. It worked for me before.

EDIT: Make sure you have the latest version before exporting.

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[Last edited by michthro at 03-04-2006 06:29 PM]

Syntax
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1218
Registered: 05-12-2005
IP: Logged

kingpr wrote:
I have played my through the first 2 levels nad yet when I look at my scores it shows this as an unexplored hold (and as I was playing through I wasn't getting any high score information - I just assumed that I was particularly useless at this hold very likely true). However, why can I not see my scores for this level?

Exactly the same has happened to me though I haven't played for a while... don't care to repeat 7 levels tho so am gonna try michthro's tactic and edit this post with my results....

It's definitely not to do with the key.

Seems like something must have happened to this hold in the last (x) week(s) ?

Thanks michthro...

/me tries

[EDIT]

Nope it didn't... and now I have to "Play New game" :/ Was the latest update done in a non-standard way ?

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[Last edited by Syntax at 03-03-2006 06:39 PM]

krammer
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 904
Registered: 02-12-2003
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When you reimport or update a hold the "Continue Playing" option is disabled but you should be able to use the Restore screen to access all your savegames still. If not, then either you imported things in the wrong order or there's a bug.

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Syntax
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1218
Registered: 05-12-2005
IP: Logged

You're absolutely right - I can restore.

However, and this is very odd, I can only restore to level 1, 7 and 8. As I haven't played for a while, I assume one can only go from 1 to 7, and not straight to 2. I would never use a warp gate so this is confusing...

Oh well... it's been a while so am gonna start again.

[EDIT]

Although I can't restore to anywhere on level 1 apart from the entrance. Something is wrong here. I'm sure I must have played through the levels in order...

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[Last edited by Syntax at 03-03-2006 06:55 PM]

michthro
Level: Smitemaestro
Rank Points: 679
Registered: 05-01-2005
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Strange. I've done this many times and never had any problems. Looks like a bug. I did some experimenting, and found that the same happens if I import saved games from an older version of Bavato's Dungeon into the latest version. I take it you didn't update the hold before you exported? If so, you should try to get hold of the same version you exported from. Maybe agaricus5 still has it somewhere. Otherwise I'm sure someone can rescue your progress from the player file.

Geiler Hengst
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 64
Registered: 03-15-2006
IP: Logged

I just started to play this hold some days ago as it was called best hold ever in another post...

Probably I dont get it, I am 75% through level 1 now and I am just ultimativly bored by the rooms... One orb puzzle is fine, 2 is acceptable per hold but a whole level full of stupid running around and waiting to hit the right combination of orbs by luck is not what i consider as fun...

Just a question... are the other levels full of orbs as well or is it worth playing on?

Syntax
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1218
Registered: 05-12-2005
IP: Logged

michthro wrote:
Strange. I've done this many times and never had any problems. Looks like a bug. I did some experimenting, and found that the same happens if I import saved games from an older version of Bavato's Dungeon into the latest version. I take it you didn't update the hold before you exported? If so, you should try to get hold of the same version you exported from. Maybe agaricus5 still has it somewhere. Otherwise I'm sure someone can rescue your progress from the player file.

Oops... sorry for the late reply. Looks like it was me confusing it with another hold.

Geiler Hengst:
I just started to play this hold some days ago as it was called best hold ever in another post...

Probably I dont get it, I am 75% through level 1 now and I am just ultimativly bored by the rooms... One orb puzzle is fine, 2 is acceptable per hold but a whole level full of stupid running around and waiting to hit the right combination of orbs by luck is not what i consider as fun...

Just a question... are the other levels full of orbs as well or is it worth playing on?

I'm afraid that I probably haven't progressed much further than you, so can't comment on further levels though I seriously doubt they all involve so many orb puzzles as... well... no-one likes *too* many orb puzzles, and if you've heard it was one of the best... well... I would carry on

There are 2 things which can make your orb life a lot easier/fun:
Firstly, did you know you could mouse click an orb to see its effect on doors? I only found this out last month, after playing for approx. a year. This technique definetely helps (especially in multi-room orb puzzles involving Halph). This technique can also be applied to decoys, eyes and tunnels.
Secondly, you can get one of 2 or 3 orb solvers that are currently circulating on the forums, though I'd recommend michthro's as I've found it the easiest to use, and it's extremely fast to solve larger puzzles (though may not give the most optimal solution).

Hope this helps you overcome the initial disappointment of this hold. I'm sure it will get better...