tokyokid
Level: Smiter

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Registered: 05-06-2006
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I've reached a bit of a crisis on my beta board for my next hold. (Sorry, I won't use names)

I asked Artist #1 to create some custom tiles for the main character in the hold. So he did. He created a set based on the "Citizen" tiles.

Then Artist #2 comes and makes the tile set, even though I had one. He modified the "Beethro" tiles.

Then a tester posted that Artist #2's tiles were copied from Beethro's tiles. Artist #2 says that he modified the tiles so much, that it was okay to use.

But Artist #1's tiles are made from the Citizen tile. He said it was also alright to use it.

Could someone please tell me if either are legal to use in the hold. Mods, you can check out the whole argument in the beta board. It's the one with 'Vraken' in it.

Thanks, I just want to get this cleared up.

Edit: I edited the post a bit.

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[Last edited by tokyokid at 07-06-2007 12:19 AM : Removed pics!!!]

Jatopian
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I'm pretty sure that if they just modified the extant tiles, it's not legal. In fact, I'm pretty sure you shouldn't have posted the tiles here.

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Stefan
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IANAL, but the way I see it, when you use the original files as a base, then even if you modify the images beyond recognition, it's still classified as a modification, and thus subject to copyright by the original author. In other words, I'd say you aren't allowed to use the files without permission from CaravelGames.

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AlefBet
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If the tile is modified to the point that the original work is completely unrecognizable in the result and there's virtually none of the original tile left, I believe that the distribution of the result is allowable under fair use (arguing that the remaining creative component from the original is so miniscule as to be negligible and insignificant). This is ignoring attributes like "22x22 tile with a gray-192 background", which would be specification information and not creative.

IMHO, the one on the right is pretty clearly derived from the Beethro tiles and I don't think that one's okay. I wouldn't venture an opinion on the one on the left.

Also, in my estimation, posting the tiles here for the purposes of constructive discussion falls under fair use -- commentary and discussion on copyright work is allowable. One wouldn't be justified in taking these tiles and using them in their hold, though, but having them here for discussion is I believe okay.

Of course, IANAL and you may not rely on any of this as definitive. All standard disclaimers apply.

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AlefBet
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Stefan wrote:
IANAL, but the way I see it, when you use the original files as a base, then even if you modify the images beyond recognition, it's still classified as a modification, and thus subject to copyright by the original author. In other words, I'd say you aren't allowed to use the files without permission from CaravelGames.

I think that's in general a safe principle to apply. But it can't hold absolutely. Otherwise, there's no way we could have ever gotten BSD from Berkeley, since in a constructivist sense it's derived from AT&T Unix. However, the Berkeley guys went through and carefully replaced every piece of AT&T material and produced an unencumbered version despite the fact that every intermediate version was an incremental change to a derivative work.

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