Alneyan
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So, I made the switch to Linux over the weekend, and got pretty much everything working, except DROD (well, I guess it won't surprise anyone).

As usual, I suppose I am missing something very obvious in getting the installer to run, since nobody else has apparently asked that question before (or I don't know how to use the Search function, your choice). Though I have installed more than a few programs already, I can't figure out how to work with that one, and looking it up didn't have much of a result.

I am using the latest stable (I think) Ubuntu release, so the procedure may be different than with other distribs. Borsuk mentioned something about having to install manually, so perhaps it isn't quite as straightforward as I thought.

Thanks!

b0rsuk
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More specifically, I use Kubuntu, but it's actually Ubuntu with KDE preinstalled. Nothing you can't easily change later, and a matter of personal taste.
First, how much are you able to do with linux ? Do you have basic knowledge of the way Linux handles files, directories, permissions, etc ? Not that you need some black magic, but I need to make sure you won't make some trivial errors.
The install itself was trivial and hassle-free, I was just slightly disappointed I had to download and use installer instead of using apt-get.

To the point:
Download DROD linux installer. Seeing how you have your browser working, it shouldn't be challenging ;-). Then run it:

 ./DRODJtRHDemoSetup.run 

( ./filename is, in general, how you run filename under linux). It's graphical installation from that point. I suggest to create a "games" or "jeux" folder first, and put DROD there. You can do it from desktop, if you want, but I'd do it this way:

mkdir jeux 

If it complains about no permissions, this is probably because default permissions don't let you execute the file. You can change it this way:

chmod u+x DRODJtRHDemoSetup.run

(now your user is allowed to execute the file)
Alternatively, using octal like all badgers I know do:

chmod 700 DRODJtRHDemoSetup.run

This isn't exactly the same, because it also enables you to read and write the file, and changes permissions for other users. At the moment I know no direct equivalent; I just do it this wa.y

Hmm. This makes the rest of my post look absurdly verbose. Note that I assumed you don't own full version, because I don't own one myself.
There are some other things you may want to do with your DROD, but I'm unsure of your linux knowledge and/or don't want to make you look like an idiot.
You can perform many basic actions with just mouse and the and GUI, but I recommend jumping to command console as soon as you feel comfortable. It's more powerful, faster (tab for speedy typing etc) and you get more feedback this way. WHen you get errors with graphical tools, they often don't display all the information, and it's hard to tell what's wrong.

If you have any questions about linux DRODing or basic linux usage in general, you can PM me. I've been gradually converting myself for several years (when I saw GIMP for the first time ! Yes, I actually like GIMP1 interface more than Photoshop's!) so I can have some useful tips to share with you.

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[Last edited by b0rsuk at 01-09-2006 08:08 PM]

Alneyan
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Thanks! I won't even say what was the problem. It... well...

Okay. I got the .run file fine, with the permission to run it, except that... I didn't quite get I was *supposed* to run it by double-clicking it, and I didn't manage to figure out the command to run it in a shell.

Double-clicking brings a "Wanna execute it or show it?" and, oddly enough, the execute it option never struck me. Yeah, I'm the kind of Windows user who try to make a drawing out of an .exe file.

Of course, everything else Linux-wise was a walk in the park (it's so easy I'm getting worried actually), and the whole setup went faster than the well-known reinstall drill under Windows. So I just *had* to freeze my brain on something so basic it isn't covered anywhere, near as I can tell, just to make up for it.

Oh, and as you can see, you shouldn't worry about making me look like an idiot. I do that pretty well on my own.

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[Last edited by Alneyan at 01-09-2006 08:15 PM]

ErikH2000
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Alneyan wrote:
So I just *had* to freeze my brain on something so basic it isn't covered anywhere, near as I can tell, just to make up for it.

This happens to me with Linux too. I want to do something really simple and it's so obvious to everyone else that nobody's bothered to document it, or the documentation is buried with other more advanced operations.

-Erik

____________________________
The Godkiller - Chapter 1 available now on Steam. It's a DROD-like puzzle adventure game.
dev journals | twitch stream | youtube archive (NSFW)

b0rsuk
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You can get suprisingly much of linux information via google, that's obvious, but I recently learned that Wikipedia is very useful for this !
For example, if you type "chmod" in Wikipedia, you get one of best chmod manuals I've seen to this day.

I know Wikipedia comes in many languages, but I prefer english myself because it's most complete. In case of polish version, there's often no indication that english article contains more information ! That was the case with chmod. There are some quite nice examples, too. I needed some detailed info for university project and google led me there. WIkipedia continues to amaze me. Sometimes I read it just for fun.

Wikipedia covers a lot of topics if you know how to ask: root, permissions, wine, drod, openoffice, badgers, kde, gnome... It is very good for providing general information and short comparisons, for example KDE vs Gnome, OpenGL vs DirectX, etc. On top of that, even if the article is dissapointingly short, there are often very useful 'external links' at the bottom.

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[Last edited by b0rsuk at 01-09-2006 09:16 PM]

Oneiromancer
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b0rsuk wrote:
WIkipedia continues to amaze me. Sometimes I read it just for fun.

I was just now reading random articles during my lunch break.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

Alneyan
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I guess this Linux-related topic should be a good one to thank the people maintaining the Linux side of DROD; I know Trick is involved with the patch-making, and there may be others. Whoever you are, thanks!

Not only does the game work under Linux, and is supported, but it works *well*: it runs a lot faster than it did under Windows, so fast in fact that Beethro is already slaying roaches before I have even started the game. Well, perhaps not, but you get the idea.

ErikH2000
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Just so you know, Gerry Jo Jellestad (Trick) is Linux maintainer and wrote the Linux port. Before him, Matt Schikore (Schik) did a large amount of relevant work with his first port to Irix. That helped us identify the areas that needed to change between platforms, and Irix has many similarities to Linux. Weston Markham (wmarkham) our Mac porter/maintainer, did a really thorough analysis of the code when he was first building it and contributed several changes that affected the Linux platform.

And some other people were involved, but those are the main ones, I think.

-Erik

____________________________
The Godkiller - Chapter 1 available now on Steam. It's a DROD-like puzzle adventure game.
dev journals | twitch stream | youtube archive (NSFW)

Alneyan
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I've installed DROD again, and I found out what was my problem: it was a permission problem that prevented me from running the file, and therefore displayed the file (since it could do nothing else). I suppose I fixed it without noticing the first time around.

The 2.0.12 DROD .bin file has permissions set to "Nobody can execute the file" by default; I'm not sure whether it is linked to the download process, or set by Trick from his seat upon the hill. It's also fairly obvious, though I suppose it's always possible someone else will run into the problem (if you are said someone, hello!).

trick
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The 2.0.12 DROD .bin file has permissions set to "Nobody can execute the file" by default; I'm not sure whether it is linked to the download process, or set by Trick from his seat upon the hill.

My hill currently has a Wraithwing problem, so I'm sitting down here in the mud in stead*. Anyway, just to confirm -- when you say "the 2.0.12 .bin file", are you talking about the DROD executable, the one installed by the setup program ? That should obviously have executable permissions, otherwise the game won't run after you've installed it. Loki Setup (the installer) should set executable permissions on the file, and last time I checked it did this. Doesn't it do this for you ?

- Gerry

* On the plus side, I've found a tar baby, an orb and a spider under some of the rocks around here.

Alneyan
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Slap me, please. That was definitively not a .bin file, but the .run file (DRODJtRHSetup-2.0.12.run, namely) that is used for the installation. That will teach me what happens when you work from memory because you have erased the relevant file...

So, the installer file cannot run automatically on my computer because no user has permission to execute the file (644). What I was wondering about is whether this is linked to how you get the file; I use Firefox 1.0.7 for the download, and download the file directly on my Linux partition, so no funny play with a FAT partition or some such. Or is the permission status was set when you released the file? (In which case, allowing the owner to run the file could not hurt)

Loki Setup sets working permissions for the "let's play DROD" file, so there is no problem on this end; the only problem I had was actually getting the installer to start.

gamer_extreme_101
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I wasn't able to tell whether or not you've solved the problem, but I'll post it up here for reference:

user@hostname:~$ cd /path/to/setup/
user@hostname:~/setup$ chmod 777 DRODJtRHSetup-2.0.12.run
user@hostname:~/setup$ ./DRODJtRHSetup-2.0.12

The installer should run properly now.

And yes, the file will download with 644 permissions no matter what browser you use. All binaries downloaded do that, IIRC.

____________________________
--That guy with a million different aliases since he doesn't like this name anymore.

trick
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Yes, that's a problem with the browser. It's perfectly possible for a browser to detect whether the file it's downloading is an executable or a script and set permissions accordingly, but I'm not aware of any browsers that actually do this. Maybe we should register at the various bugzillas and complain, so that something can get done about this ..

Anyway, to set executable permissions, you can either do what Patrick said, or do 'chmod +x DRODJtRHSetup-2.0.12.run' (easier to remember if you're not into octal numbers, plus doesn't modify other permissions), or (in Gnome/KDE/probably others) just right-click the file, select properties or somesuch, go to the permissions tab, and check the executable box for at least yourself.

- Gerry

Alneyan
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I no longer have that problem myself, and it's easy enough to fix... once you have noticed where the problem is.

I brought up the subject again in case something could be done about it (it doesn't look like it's the case), or for other users. Perhaps a note about checking your permissions could be made somewhere? Then again, perhaps I really *am* one of the lucky few who stumble on silly things.

jamie
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gamer_extreme_101 wrote:
user@hostname:~/setup$ chmod 777 DRODJtRHSetup-2.0.12.run

And yes, the file will download with 644 permissions no matter what browser you use. All binaries downloaded do that, IIRC.

You may argue it doesn't really matter on a single-user machine, but DON'T get into the habit of give write-access to the world! It may one day bite you on another machine,
As Borsk says, Chmod +x xxxxxx is better.

Files you download are saved with a setting based on your umask - mine would be 600

I don't actually agree with the system 'guessing' and setting the execute flag - it sorta negates the point of having such a flag in the first place. And, after all, if I have a binary I only want to distribute, and not run, then I wouldn't want it to have +x

Incidently, other protocols (namely scp) do transfer file permissions..

____________________________
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[Last edited by jamie at 01-29-2006 03:27 AM]

b0rsuk
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Actually, I prefer octal system. I can't recall using +x. I usually just chmod 700 filename. Or chmod 600 -R directory (...)

There's no reason to give any rights to group and others, unless you have multiple people/accounts accessing your computer. At one point you may want to start a http or ftp server, or something, and the habit of using 777 every time may become a security risk.

One thing make me think. A lot of linux installers don't have permission to execute, by default. I vaguely remember something that it's a (perhaps a bit pedantic) way to improve security. Can anyone clarify why do they do it ?


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[Last edited by b0rsuk at 01-30-2006 02:33 PM]

jamie
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b0rsuk wrote:
Actually, I prefer octal system. I can't recall using +x. I usually just chmod 700 filename. Or chmod 600 -R directory (...)

Oops. I meant 'trick' not 'b0rsuk' - dunno where that error came from.

I tend to use octal now, simply because it's quicker, and I know the codes, but if someone just wants to alter some of the permissions on a file, leaving the others intact... then the +/- method is much more suited!

Also, it makes more sense for newbies.. I've introduced a few people to unix via FreeBSD, and I'll always teach the "[augo][-+=]r{0,1}w{0,1}x{0,1}" method as it matches what they see on ls -l outputs!

____________________________
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[Last edited by jamie at 01-30-2006 08:02 PM]

AlefBet
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I tend to use 755 for directories and executables, 644 for data, and 700/600 for security-related files (like .ssh/). My computer is a single-user computer, but I sometimes log in as other accounts (such as MythTV), and when I do it's convenient to be able to at least look at my nonsensitive files (in case I need to remember how I did something, etc.).

I also tend to use the octal notation, because I usually know exactly what permissions I want the file to have and if Group/Other aren't set that way, I might as well fix them while I'm at it. As a bonus, it's usually faster. (Three numbers, two which are the same.)

But it is a good idea to use the character-type permissions when suggesting fixes to others in case they have different preferences.

Anyway, that's just my $0.02. YMMV.

____________________________
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++Adam H. Peterson

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[Last edited by AlefBet at 01-31-2006 01:03 AM]

trick
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I usually use the text notation when all I want is a simple change and I'm not too concerned about security. Making a file executable, etc. For other changes I use octal notation.

Text notation has its moments, though:

chmod -R a-rwx,ug+rX *

Makes all files in all subdirectories readable, write-protected and not executable by the owner and the group -- with the exception of directories, which is set to executable (so that they can be entered and listed). Inaccessible to others.

- Gerry