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Doom
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A few more things I've picked up since those few posts.

L13:1N1W - There's a trick that bypasses the entire puzzle: You can go around the room and release the snake and the ball after killing the roaches.
L13:1N3W - Is the crate a red herring? You don't need to block Jax's jump route to exit that area. Also, I didn't see any use for the elemental.

I've experienced a crash multiple times, always right after hitting undo, but it seems totally random. One of the error messages this results in is "Cant open compiled file Adv". I think there was some other one too, but I'm not sure about it right now. (Or I could be wrong)
07-05-2006 at 11:04 PM
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silver
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quote:
Niccus wrote:
Not-so-nitpick: Chen's description still says that he can swim in Lava. Not only is this pushing reality a tad far, but this doesn't seem to be allowed in the game... at least not yet. (I'm only at L8 right now)



has there been an opportunity where he's near lava that isn't 3 squares from mud yet?
I edited that piece of text and added "in water and lava" because I was pretty sure I used him to swim in lava on some level like 12 or 13 (admittedly, in the previous version). I recalled being somewhat surprised that he could swim it, and somewhat frustrated because it was _necessary_ that he do so, which I thought was impossible. but I could be mistaken.


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07-06-2006 at 01:39 AM
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Picture attached.

It's rather interesting to note that the lava still counts as land... It looks more like some obscure technicality now.
07-06-2006 at 01:50 AM
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googa
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quote:
Niccus wrote:
Nitpick:

On L8, 1S 3E, it appears that the blue door/button and the 3rd orb from the right on the top (turns off the 2nd ray caster from the left) are unnecessary...
Click here to view the secret text



Bug Fixed.

quote:
Not-so-nitpick: Chen's description still says that he can swim in Lava. Not only is this pushing reality a tad far, but this doesn't seem to be allowed in the game... at least not yet. (I'm only at L8 right now)
Awesome game, by the way :)


Bug fixed, it's just an error in the text, Chen can't swin in lava. I'm not that sadist.
Thanks.

Dragon Island secret bug fixed.

quote:
L13:1N1W - There's a trick that bypasses the entire puzzle: You can go around the room and release the snake and the ball after killing the roaches.


Bug fixed.

quote:
L13:1N3W - Is the crate a red herring? You don't need to block Jax's jump route to exit that area. Also, I didn't see any use for the elemental.


I place a fire above the arrow's tile. The elemental is very useful, but not for solving the room. (Guess for what..)

quote:
I've experienced a crash multiple times, always right after hitting undo, but it seems totally random. One of the error messages this results in is "Cant open compiled file Adv". I think there was some other one too, but I'm not sure about it right now. (Or I could be wrong)


Anyone else having the same problem? I never had this problem here. If you can reproduce, please send me your player's folder zipped one move before the crash.

[Last edited by googa at 07-06-2006 09:58 PM]
07-06-2006 at 09:56 PM
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quote:
googa wrote:
quote:
I've experienced a crash multiple times, always right after hitting undo, but it seems totally random. One of the error messages this results in is "Cant open compiled file Adv". I think there was some other one too, but I'm not sure about it right now. (Or I could be wrong)


Anyone else having the same problem? I never had this problem here. If you can reproduce, please send me your player's folder zipped one move before the crash.
No luck yet - Haven't even experienced it yet after the last time. And I don't remember the earlier situations well enough to say anything useful. But I found several other things I forgot to mention before:

- In L8:3S4E you can ignore the blue panels. Pointing the cross to the west before continuing with the room is enough to block the roaches from killing you. The later variation in L9 seems to be ok.

- Killing the roach in L9:1E, and undoing after that is ok, but if you let the roach suicide in fire, undoing makes Rick still disappear. (I don't know if this is a known bug in the current version or if you had fixed a similar thing before)

- It's possible to skip L9:1S1E without doing anything. I just jumped on the eastern crate with Rick and walked out of the room...
07-06-2006 at 11:30 PM
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googa
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quote:
- It's possible to skip L9:1S1E without doing anything. I just jumped on the eastern crate with Rick and walked out of the room...


Yep, Bug fixed.

quote:
- Killing the roach in L9:1E, and undoing after that is ok, but if you let the roach suicide in fire, undoing makes Rick still disappear. (I don't know if this is a known bug in the current version or if you had fixed a similar thing before)


I'll leave it as it is for now. Rick disappears because the engine treat the room as clear when you hit undo.

quote:
- In L8:3S4E you can ignore the blue panels. Pointing the cross to the west before continuing with the room is enough to block the roaches from killing you. The later variation in L9 seems to be ok.


Fixed, thanks Doom. Have a mod point.
07-07-2006 at 12:36 AM
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I've just managed to make the head of a green snake disappear in L14:1S4W. This seems to require a fairly specific situation:
. . S . .
. . S . .
. - B . .
. O . . .
. . . . .

S = Green Snake (Pushing the box)
O = Orb
- = Sword (Or shoes, in this case)
B = Box with Arthur on it and a deactivated arrow under it. (The orb activates this arrow)
. = Floor

Waiting in this situation activates this bug. In this room in L14, leaving the arrow on kills the snake. This messes the graphic even more, because the tail disappears too, but the body graphic doesn't refresh. And after it dies, the graphic still stays there. After messing with it some more, I actually managed to lock the game completely (requiring Ctrl+Alt+Del)
07-09-2006 at 03:59 PM
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googa
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Yes, very weird bug. But it really occurs in a very specific situation. The arrow that will prevent snake move must be triggered by the snake itself.

Fixed.
07-09-2006 at 07:08 PM
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A few more room things found on the way.

L14: Gaia River 4
Not very serious, but I didn't use the ball at the top or the axe/torch near the bottom bomb. Also, never jumped over the rightmost fires. (It looks like you're supposed to at some point)

L15: The Entrance
There's a small design mistake at the bottom area right after the checkpoints. It appears that you should guide the boomerang through the small path to the three orbs, but you can just walk through the forest. Also, there's a smaller flaw in the same room: The orb in the lake can be hit in the beginning of the room by throwing the boomerang to the right when standing next to the lake-door.

L15:1S2E
This has to be a trivial solution. Let's just say that a single roach, pits and a controllable boomerang isn't a good combination.

L15:Snake Nightmare (4)
This room feels kind of trivial. First of all, the bomb explodes every 30 turns, and the room is full of food that can only be used to turn the snake back to green if it gets hit. However, it's very easy to avoid this completely. And more importantly, it's possible to take huge shortcuts by riding crates across the room instead of pushing the crates to make bridges. (Unless that's what you're supposed to do...) This just felt too easy. I had much more trouble with the early green snake manipulation rooms.

L15:Flying Garden (NE)[step 4]
The first puzzle can be skipped if you activate the upper one of the 2 orbs close to each other twice with the boomerang. In the second part, the orb that's next to a wall is a bit easier to activated than it should be. An explosion close to it triggers it, while it's clearly intented that you guide the boomerang to it.

[Last edited by Doom at 07-12-2006 06:11 PM]
07-12-2006 at 02:11 PM
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quote:
L14: Gaia River 4
Not very serious, but I didn't use the ball at the top or the axe/torch near the bottom bomb. Also, never jumped over the rightmost fires. (It looks like you're supposed to at some point)

Fixed.

quote:
L15: The Entrance
There's a small design mistake at the bottom area right after the checkpoints. It appears that you should guide the boomerang through the small path to the three orbs, but you can just walk through the forest. Also, there's a smaller flaw in the same room: The orb in the lake can be hit in the beginning of the room by throwing the boomerang to the right when standing next to the lake-door.

Fixed.

quote:
L15:1S2E
This has to be a trivial solution. Let's just say that a single roach, pits and a controllable boomerang isn't a good combination.

Yep. This one was funny.. Fixed.

quote:
L15:Snake Nightmare (4)
This room feels kind of trivial. First of all, the bomb explodes every 30 turns, and the room is full of food that can only be used to turn the snake back to green if it gets hit. However, it's very easy to avoid this completely. And more importantly, it's possible to take huge shortcuts by riding crates across the room instead of pushing the crates to make bridges. (Unless that's what you're supposed to do...) This just felt too easy. I had much more trouble with the early green snake manipulation rooms.


Fixed. I just removed a few extra mud.

quote:
L15:Flying Garden (NE)[step 4]
The first puzzle can be skipped if you activate the upper one of the 2 orbs close to each other twice with the boomerang. In the second part, the orb that's next to a wall is a bit easier to activated than it should be. An explosion close to it triggers it, while it's clearly intented that you guide the boomerang to it.


Fixed. It seems that to create a complex/flawlewss room for this game is even harder than playing it. What a challenge! I had to imagine all the possible boomerangs routes to prevent more trivial solutions in the last case.

Thanks.
07-13-2006 at 12:26 AM
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L14: Gaia River 4
Not very serious, but I didn't use the ball at the top or the axe/torch near the bottom bomb. Also, never jumped over the rightmost fires. (It looks like you're supposed to at some point)

Fixed.

quote:
L15: The Entrance
There's a small design mistake at the bottom area right after the checkpoints. It appears that you should guide the boomerang through the small path to the three orbs, but you can just walk through the forest. Also, there's a smaller flaw in the same room: The orb in the lake can be hit in the beginning of the room by throwing the boomerang to the right when standing next to the lake-door.

Fixed.

quote:
L15:1S2E
This has to be a trivial solution. Let's just say that a single roach, pits and a controllable boomerang isn't a good combination.

Yep. This one was funny.. Fixed.

quote:
L15:Snake Nightmare (4)
This room feels kind of trivial. First of all, the bomb explodes every 30 turns, and the room is full of food that can only be used to turn the snake back to green if it gets hit. However, it's very easy to avoid this completely. And more importantly, it's possible to take huge shortcuts by riding crates across the room instead of pushing the crates to make bridges. (Unless that's what you're supposed to do...) This just felt too easy. I had much more trouble with the early green snake manipulation rooms.


Fixed. I just removed a few extra mud.

quote:
L15:Flying Garden (NE)[step 4]
The first puzzle can be skipped if you activate the upper one of the 2 orbs close to each other twice with the boomerang. In the second part, the orb that's next to a wall is a bit easier to activated than it should be. An explosion close to it triggers it, while it's clearly intended that you guide the boomerang to it.


Fixed. It seems that to create a complex/flawless room for this game is even harder than playing it. What a challenge! I had to imagine all the possible boomerangs routes to prevent more trivial solutions in the last case.

Thanks.
07-13-2006 at 12:27 AM
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L13 1S4W: getting to the secret trophy is pretty easy since the pandora's box destroys the balls.

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07-13-2006 at 12:11 PM
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quote:
eytanz wrote:
L13 1S4W: getting to the secret trophy is pretty easy since the pandora's box destroys the balls.


Yep, Fixed.
07-13-2006 at 07:03 PM
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More level 15 trivial solutions:

2S2E: Nothing stops you just killing the roach and the eye with the boomerang without ever entering the lava area. I'm guessing the room is missing an arrow. (I solved this the intended way, though, which was pretty fun).

2S1E: I know Doom already reported one trivial solution to this room, and your fix for it may have fixed this one as well, but even if you don't kill the roach with the boomerang, it's pretty easy to lure it into the range of the laser and turn the laser on.

I think I'll wait until you release an updated quest file before continuing, level 15 seems pretty buggy and I want to experience it properly.

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07-16-2006 at 11:43 AM
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quote:
eytanz wrote:
More level 15 trivial solutions:

2S2E: Nothing stops you just killing the roach and the eye with the boomerang without ever entering the lava area. I'm guessing the room is missing an arrow. (I solved this the intended way, though, which was pretty fun).

2S1E: I know Doom already reported one trivial solution to this room, and your fix for it may have fixed this one as well, but even if you don't kill the roach with the boomerang, it's pretty easy to lure it into the range of the laser and turn the laser on.

I think I'll wait until you release an updated quest file before continuing, level 15 seems pretty buggy and I want to experience it properly.


Bugs fixed. Few people playtested L15, that's the problem. I'll release V3.2 soon.
07-16-2006 at 10:58 PM
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Level 10, 1 S: You can just skip the second part and use Nikolay to snipe off all the roaches there.

Sophie's torch is a little counterintuitive, lighting it on fire seems to make enemies smarter... or at least similiar to goblins with a brain in DROD.

Sophie's sections are tough >_<

[Last edited by Niccus at 07-17-2006 03:22 AM]
07-17-2006 at 03:05 AM
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quote:
googa wrote:
Bugs fixed. Few people playtested L15, that's the problem. I'll release V3.2 soon.


Before you do, a couple more trivial rooms:

In Snake Nightmare (3), it's really easy to just kill the roach with the boomerang. This means there's no consequence to hitting an orange pressure plate, which in turn means you can kill the eyes without using the snake. Just kill the snake with the fire elemental (no need to even release it), and you're done.

In 4S2E, entering the secret area is pretty easy - it's possible to get rid of all the bombs using the boomerang before stepping on any of the volcanic squares.

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07-17-2006 at 05:33 AM
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quote:
In Snake Nightmare (3), it's really easy to just kill the roach with the boomerang. This means there's no consequence to hitting an orange pressure plate, which in turn means you can kill the eyes without using the snake. Just kill the snake with the fire elemental (no need to even release it), and you're done.

In 4S2E, entering the secret area is pretty easy - it's possible to get rid of all the bombs using the boomerang before stepping on any of the volcanic squares.


Both fixed. Boomerang rooms are tough to debug.
07-17-2006 at 07:11 PM
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Jacob
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I think the secret room on level 1 is required since I could exit the level until I'd completed it.

Otherwise, this is a great game!
(Up to level 4 so far)

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10-22-2006 at 07:45 PM
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googa
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Thanks Jacob.

quote:
I think the secret room on level 1 is required since I could exit the level until I'd completed it.

By the way, there are three types of secret in WQ:

1) Secret room - That is an optional room.
2) Secret Trophy - A relic that can be picked up.
3) Secret tile - a tile that Jax and only Jax can use the sword to destroy.

I got no problems here. Maybe you forgot a required room, didn't you?
10-24-2006 at 06:23 PM
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Well, I did mean the secret (i.e. unrequired) room, but I guess I was wrong. I'll see if I can replicate that.

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10-25-2006 at 06:08 PM
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googa
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quote:
Ezlo wrote (another thread):
I just want to let you know that the Pandora's Box in Level 13 Once South Quarce West destroys the balls, making it possible to get the secret after killing the snakes.

Bug fixed.


[Last edited by googa at 11-02-2006 12:31 AM]
10-31-2006 at 10:38 PM
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(I'm back! And I see there's new things! Hooray!)

I've gotten to the Level 13 exit, but when I beat it, and the screen to start Level 14 appears, clicking "Go" crashes the game and gives this error message:

Out ofbounds: Name: CObject:: Party - Max X = 10, index = 25

Restarting the game puts me back at the start of the exit roon. :?

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[Last edited by Enigmatologist at 11-07-2006 03:58 PM]
11-07-2006 at 03:58 PM
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googa
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quote:
Enigmatologist wrote:
(I'm back! And I see there's new things! Hooray!)


Cool. :)

quote:
I've gotten to the Level 13 exit, but when I beat it, and the screen to start Level 14 appears, clicking "Go" crashes the game and gives this error message:

Out ofbounds: Name: CObject:: Party - Max X = 10, index = 25

Restarting the game puts me back at the start of the exit roon.

Yes, It's happening in a few rooms that have Ice blocks.

Download the newest Quest version here, and let me know if It'll help.

Thanks.

[Last edited by googa at 11-08-2006 06:34 PM]
11-08-2006 at 06:34 PM
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This is in Twelfth Level, Thrice West.

The butterfly has stepped from NE to a W-facing arrow... is this normal behavior?

EDIT: Okay, I hope that wasn't actually outlined in the definition of butterflies...

By the way, Twice South -- The timer doesn't work; the player can always just backtrack to get out of the room when the balls close the west exit.

Love the changes in atmosphere, by the way.

[Last edited by Niccus at 11-10-2006 11:53 PM]
11-10-2006 at 10:00 PM
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googa
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quote:
The butterfly has stepped from NE to a W-facing arrow... is this normal behavior?


For now Butterflies will just ignore arrows. Maybe in the future they may become more "Civilized".

quote:
By the way, Twice South -- The timer doesn't work; the player can always just backtrack to get out of the room when the balls close the west exit.


Bug fixed.
Thanks Niccus.

EDIT: This bug was not properly fixed for V15 because the player could still enter from west, and skip the PP.
Fixed now.

[Last edited by googa at 11-11-2006 06:13 PM]
11-11-2006 at 12:48 AM
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Niccus
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Minor near-bug:

Lucas has no way to strike an orb diagonally twice in a row (in two turns).
Expected behavior, in a way... It's really minor, but I believe that all characters should be able to strike orbs repeatedly.

I haven't tested how other movement restrictions affect orb-striking (i.e., an orb on grass while using Lucas, etc), but they probably behave similarly.

Minor near-bug #2:

There is no way to revert to a checkpoint that went the way of the lava.

You know, the little sheds on the volcanic grounds.

[Last edited by Niccus at 11-18-2006 08:36 AM]
11-18-2006 at 08:29 AM
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googa
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quote:
Minor near-bug:

Lucas has no way to strike an orb diagonally twice in a row (in two turns).
Expected behavior, in a way... It's really minor, but I believe that all characters should be able to strike orbs repeatedly.


Yes. I introduced this ability to ignore the orb while pressing wait as a new feature. I think I'll change it.

quote:
There is no way to revert to a checkpoint that went the way of the lava.


Yep, but I 'll leave it the way it is for now. It can be used as a limitation.
11-18-2006 at 05:10 PM
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quote:
Niccus wrote:There is no way to revert to a checkpoint that went the way of the lava.

You know, the little sheds on the volcanic grounds.


You can restart the room by holding R then click on the Save Point that was a lava tile and restart there.

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11-21-2006 at 02:10 AM
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googa
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quote:
Niccus wrote:There is no way to revert to a checkpoint that went the way of the lava.

You know, the little sheds on the volcanic grounds.


Problem solved. Now the Shed is not destroyed when the character passes over it.
11-21-2006 at 03:19 AM
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