NekoIncardine
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This thread is for discussion of games and genres that have strong similarities to Deadly Rooms of Death; communities at such places may be worth the effort to advertising to.

I'll start with three examples that seem obvious to me:
* Denmaku Sh'mups: Sh'mups are Space Shooters (think Raiden, Gradius, or R-Type, or, most directly comparable, Ikaruga), and denmaku is a particular form of Sh'mup centered around slow-moving bullets - and lots of them. The game's core is therefore extremely precise dodging of the bullets rather than just shooting stuff like in more traditional designs (not that there's a shortage of shooting stuff, either). This subgenre is surprisingly similar to DROD; you have to think out your path to take as the best to escape the bullets/enemies, and then carefully work your way through it. Unfortunately
* MMORPGs - You wave a sword and kill stuff with it. The similarity ends in the fact that you actually have to THINK about what you're doing with that sword, instead of just clicking, going to get a sandwich, and returning.
* Strategy RPGS - If anyone here has played Disgaea: Hour of Darkness, you will probably notice the similarity to DROD. Now, if you've ever tried to play it using only Laharl, that's one closer to how DROD feels. Except Beethro doesn't laugh in a fashion nearly as psychotic as Laharl. Or have a special that blows up half the room.

These are merely ideas, of course.

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Oneiromancer
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Well, I would respectfully disagree with your first two choices there...inasmuch as they would be genres which one could make the connection between them and DROD. I mean, I like all those genres but I wouldn't really advertise DROD in forums for any of those places with any expectation of success.

I'd still say that the "Denmaku Sh'mups" are really geared towards those who like "Sh'mups" in general. The turn-based nature of DROD makes it vastly different from the kind of thinking you need to do in those games.

And MMORPGs...I can't think of any similarities at all. None are turn-based, very few have any puzzles at all, and they're multiplayer! Just having a sword doesn't work out, I would think.

Strategy RPGs is definitely a lot closer, especially turn-based ones. Someone who enjoys planning their moves out ahead of time might appreciate DROD. It depends on how much thinking they really have to do...and whether they'd miss the stats and variety of controllable characters a strategy RPG would have.

In my opinion, if you're looking to hook people on DROD based on the genre of game they like, puzzle games are still the way to go. But I think it's always worth sharing DROD with friends, even with communities that you're a good member of. I just don't really think the people that like the genres you listed above would be too interested in DROD simply based on that genre...if they were well-rounded gamers, then sure. But if they're well-rounded, then they could be anywhere, and wouldn't be focused on a single genre.

Sadly, rec.games.computer.puzzle appears to be mostly deserted, with the last DROD post back in 2002.

Game on,

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Mattcrampy
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I'm personally wondering how tapped out the hardcore puzzle game fans are. I know that the casual puzzle game market is pretty big, but then I'm not sure if Caravel mightn't be more interested in making a new game for that market instead of shoehorning DROD to be suitable for the casual market.

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ErikH2000
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Mattcrampy wrote:
but then I'm not sure if Caravel mightn't be more interested in making a new game for that market instead of shoehorning DROD to be suitable for the casual market.

I don't want to do anything for the stupid casual market. It's too boring. The games aren't interesting and the customers don't really care about your games.

-Erik

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The Godkiller - Chapter 1 available now on Steam. It's a DROD-like puzzle adventure game.
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Chalks
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ErikH2000 wrote:
I don't want to do anything for the stupid casual market. It's too boring. The games aren't interesting and the customers don't really care about your games.

-Erik

good.

Yellow_Mage
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Oneiromancer wrote:
I'd still say that the "Denmaku Sh'mups" are really geared towards those who like "Sh'mups" in general. The turn-based nature of DROD makes it vastly different from the kind of thinking you need to do in those games.

*Bigs up my sig*

Yeah. and it "danmaku" but I call them "bullet curtain" types. Raiden, Gradius, R-Type aren't quite like that, and Ikaruga is more tending towards a "bullet hell" type because there are certain situations where escape is impossible because of the ammount of projectiles scattered on screen (it's a vert shump really). Bullet curtain types (supposed ) to have a possible escape by grazing between gaps or figuring out the pattern. And they are damn pretty to look at which distracts you and you end up dying.

There is no game like DROD, which is why when people like the premise of it, they can't resist the game. Contrarily it's uniqueness probably stops people from initially trying it, and it's a puzzle game even tho' it's more that. And, well, 3 of my friends don't play because they don't want to be addicted to it like me.

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Banjooie
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Shmup is also possibly the most ridiculous term in gaming history.

They're called shooters. Really. Thus why 'first person' is a part of the FPS thing.

I think a little part of me dies whenever I hear that word.

Anyway, I think DROD's turnbased nature makes it pretty unique puzzle-wise, because it also manages to have an action component despite the lack of time-based puzzles.

stigant
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Well, I can personally say that I came to DROD via a search for Rogue-like games (what is currently known as turn-based RPG). I know its not exactly a Rogue-like game, but it has a lot in common with them. I stayed because of the puzzle elements.

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Banjooie
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It is pretty roguelike in design.--I found it looking for games on Underdogs. I imagine if we're headed to anyone, the Rogue people would be it.

Yellow_Mage
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Banjooie wrote:
Shmup is also possibly the most ridiculous term in gaming history.

I don't make the rules, but I kinda agree with you. But I got used to saying shump cos that what it termed as. Shooters on it own is a vague description of what the game is, because I would recall shooters to be like Contra or Gunstar Heroes, but those are call Run And Gunners, but shooters are anything that have a gun involved in it. Time Crisis, Jet Force Gemini, Space Harrier and Panzer Dragoon are all shooters, Parasite Eve could be called one but for the sake of farmiliarity, terminology creeps in and takes over. Vert., Hori., Rail, Fixed, FPS, 3PS, person, Sim, Light Gun (even tho it could be called a rail shooter).

Shmup. Seems rude doesn't it?

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Banjooie
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It sounds vaguely obscene, is what it does.

Krishh
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Banjooie wrote:
It sounds vaguely obscene, is what it does.

In fact, it confuses and angers you, doesn't it?

But you're making this too easy.

Chaco
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I've heard shoot-em-up, so I suppose shmup was the next logical step. People will abbreviate anything if they can. Unnecessary long words confuse and anger them.

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b0rsuk
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Chaco wrote:
I've heard shoot-em-up, so I suppose shmup was the next logical step. People will abbreviate anything if they can. Unnecessary long words confuse and anger them.

This is especially the case for english speakers, it seems. Sometimes they seem obsessed with abbreviations.
I'd say it's rather uncommon in slavic languages.

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jamie
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Yellow_Mage wrote:

Banjooie wrote:
Shmup is also possibly the most ridiculous term in gaming history.

I don't make the rules, but I kinda agree with you.

Still, you helped propogate it - I'd never heard the term until you mentioned it now

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Banjooie
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Krishh wrote:
In fact, it confuses and angers you, doesn't it?

It's more of a virulent rage that saps the very essence of life from small wilderness creatures nearby, really.

mrimer
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b0rsuk wrote:
I'd say it's rather uncommon in slavic languages.

Well, I know this is a common practice in Russia when referring to government organizations (which covers about everything ):

совнархоз (sovnarkhoz - Sovietskoe Narodnoe Hozyaistvo), жилконтор, главпочтамт, роддом...

These follow the same method of abbreviation.

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[Last edited by mrimer at 11-23-2005 07:22 PM]

ErikH2000
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Inside of what I call the "stepper" genre, there are a handful of games along with DROD.

- Robots/Daleks
- Hero's Heart and other MESH games
- Drainspout (Was this what it was called? I can't Google it, so I may have the name wrong. You go down a shower drain and fight bugs.)
- Wonderquest
- Many Roguelikes (turn-based RPGs) although they already have a known genre to go home to.

Steppers are turn-based, but there is never any waiting after submitting commands. Commands are issued as fast as the player wants and results are shown immediately. Gameplay is oriented towards making many movements in succession without pause, as opposed to games where puzzle-solving or other analysis tends to make the player pause before issuing each command.

-Erik

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The Godkiller - Chapter 1 available now on Steam. It's a DROD-like puzzle adventure game.
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KevG
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ErikH2000 wrote:
- Drainspout (Was this what it was called? I can't Google it, so I may have the name wrong. You go down a shower drain and fight bugs.)

Drain Storm
I remember when I first got a hold of this several years, the description specifically said it was a D.R.O.D. clone; don't know if D.R.O.D. really was the inspiration for this game or not.

Chalks
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I love drainstorm!


I still have it on my computer.

Yellow_Mage
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jamie wrote:

Yellow_Mage wrote:

Banjooie wrote:
Shmup is also possibly the most ridiculous term in gaming history.

I don't make the rules, but I kinda agree with you.

Still, you helped propogate it - I'd never heard the term until you mentioned it now

I'm such a stirrer...

http://www.shmups.com/

Ok... Time for me to sit in the naughty corner...

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jamie
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And don't come out for at LEAST a week!

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Mouse
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I found DROD because of SDL.
I was playing rogue-likes at the time & found something called Powder (I think).
It required SDL but didn't come with it.
On the SDL web page is a list of all games made using SDL and DROD is there.

So here I am...

I think of DROD as a turn-based puzzle/strategy game.

jamie
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I was really bored in work one evening, and started looking around for 'free downloads' and stumbled across the webfoot-drod demo on some game site.

Did the 3 levels, thought it was really cool, and bought it online the next day (I'm pretty sure it was my first ever internet purchase -- it was definitely my first ever internet software purchase)

I took ages to play it through, as I'd play a few levels every few days, or weeks, depending on what I was doing.

This was, about, 500 years ago.

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Alneyan
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I found out about DROD at the Underdogs: back in the days, it was Caravel DROD before AE, so there was no hold editor or any such silliness. Men were man, women were women, and roaches were roaches then. I recall how I had to boot the game before going to school if I hoped to play it in the evening... those punch cards really were a major problem. And don't get me started on how long the walk barefooted to school was.

Okay. I recall one mail where someone asked if there was anything special should you complete the game without dying once, and Erik took that as an incentive to work on the hold editor, since people were getting just a little bit... well... You know how DROD players can get. It was Rooted Hold that brought me out of the woods, as heralded in the Illumination this time. So, do I get my award for longest lurker ever?

That aside, I daresay DROD is pretty much like GTA. Really.

Syntax
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Everyone..! surely...

DROD is just a clone of Akari Warriors, what with the sand and grenades and stuff...

No ?

And the bazookas...
And bridges with rivers...
And the tanks...

bandit1200
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I find DROD to be very much like chess. When I was young, I played chess for about 8 years[1] and really loved the game, but was absolutely crap at playing it. Decades later, the exact same applies to DROD.

[1] I was a very slow player.

AlefBet
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bandit1200 wrote:
I played chess for about 8 years....

Did you ever beat it? I'm stuck on the second-to-last boss, and I can't find a gamefaq.

Interesting that you mention chess, though. I believe that Erik prototyped some of the game elements in the original DROD on a chessboard way-back-when.

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Nillo
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AlefBet wrote:

bandit1200 wrote:
I played chess for about 8 years....

Did you ever beat it? I'm stuck on the second-to-last boss, and I can't find a gamefaq.

You mean the queen? Yeah, she's annoying. Any cheat codes would be appreciated.

Interesting that you mention chess, though. I believe that Erik prototyped some of the game elements in the original DROD on a chessboard way-back-when.

Here's a new type of game, then: Beethro versus an army of chess pieces! Beethro moves like in the game and slays the opponent's pieces with his sword. The sword counts as a chess piece and thus cannot be moved through. When a piece gets Beethro, game over. The objective is to slay the king.

Obviously, this in itself would be very difficult. So here's some variants to make it slightly more possible:
*Beethro starts with 3 mimic potions that he can use at any time instead of moving.
*Beethro has 3 hitpoints. If a piece attacks Beethro, he loses a hitpoint and the piece is destroyed.
*Beethro can both turn the sword once and move on the same turn.
*Your suggestion here!

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jamie
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Trying to describe DROD to non-computer types, I often say it's got some of the logic of chess (except that the opponents pieces all move at once, in a predictable way), and requires a similar 'thinking in advance' thought process, but it's not boring like chess is :-)


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[Last edited by jamie at 11-28-2005 10:50 AM : DING DING!]