ErikH2000
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

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I'm stuck pretty good on this one. I think my trouble is that I don't understand what could happen in the room that would ever send a ball north onto the pressure plate. Probably there is some rule about balls that I don't know yet, but I don't have the patience to experiment here to learn what that rule is.

I'd like a minimal hint. If you think I'm missing a particular rule of "ball physics" maybe clue me in on that rule. Or maybe you could tell me which of the starting balls will end up on the pressure plate. I dunno. Just don't give it all away at once.

-Erik

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Jeff_Ray...
Level: Smitemaster

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By the way, i won't have much free time for making levels, but i can still go and make a few!

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cheese obsessive
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 219
Registered: 10-10-2004
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ErikH2000 wrote:
I'm stuck pretty good on this one. I think my trouble is that I don't understand what could happen in the room that would ever send a ball north onto the pressure plate. Probably there is some rule about balls that I don't know yet, but I don't have the patience to experiment here to learn what that rule is.

I'd like a minimal hint. If you think I'm missing a particular rule of "ball physics" maybe clue me in on that rule. Or maybe you could tell me which of the starting balls will end up on the pressure plate. I dunno. Just don't give it all away at once.

-Erik

Are you by any chance stuck on Level 3, 2E? Because I can't quite figure that one out, and it is the only room on level three I have left to beat...

ErikH2000
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

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cheese obsessive wrote:
Are you by any chance stuck on Level 3, 2E? Because I can't quite figure that one out, and it is the only room on level three I have left to beat...

Yes, that's the room. I put the room in the subject of the post. Well, now I don't feel so dumb since somebody else is stuck there too. I just don't see how to make any balls change direction to go north towards the pressure plate.

-Erik

____________________________
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ErikH2000
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2794
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One other thought I forgot to put in my previous post:

There are one or two cases where the ball-pushing doesn't seem quite consistent. If the player is on an arrow and the ball pushes against him without the player moving with the arrow, he dies, even if the ball is pushing in the same direction as the arrow. What I expected to happen was that the player would be pushed over the arrow.

Something like this happens at corners too, and it may be just because the arrows are there as well, but I think it would be nice to have the player pushed around corners even if he doesn't push in the right direction.

A good general algorithm for pushing might be:

If player can move in the same direction as the arrow pushes...
  Move him there.
If not then...
  Look at other squares adjacent to player in order of their closeness to the square the arrow pushed towards.
  If a square was found that player could move into...
    Move him to that square.
  Else
    Death!

So basically the player is pushed out of the way of the ball if it's possible. Less deaths due to keyslips that way, and you can have that "go with the flow" feeling when the balls are pushing the player around corners.

But if that is going too far, I'd still allow balls to push the player over arrows.

-Erik

____________________________
The Godkiller - Chapter 1 available now on Steam. It's a DROD-like puzzle adventure game.
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googa
Level: Moderator

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Level 3, 2E hint:



I know what you mean about the specials, Erik. An open ended game would ruin all the fun. Specials are cool, they need gold. (Strategically positioned).

TripleM
Level: Smitemaster
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Hmm. Thats strange, I somehow managed to get to level 4 despite not solving several of the rooms on level 3.. is one of the room exits there a level-warp type thing on that level, or was that a bug?

(Note - that was 3rd level, 2E4N, north exit).

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[Last edited by TripleM at 11-14-2005 10:40 PM]

googa
Level: Moderator

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I got it TripleM. Its not a bug, its a scenario design problem. Anyway, you can restore that room and continue playing. I will put an arrow to block the path.

Note to players: please dont exit the 3rd level, room 2E4N, through north exit.

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[Last edited by googa at 11-14-2005 10:51 PM]

cheese obsessive
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 219
Registered: 10-10-2004
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googa wrote:
Level 3, 2E hint:

Click here to view the secret text

×fifth newton’s law: boxes rebound balls.

I know what you mean about the specials, Erik. An open ended game would ruin all the fun. Specials are cool, they need gold. (Strategically positioned).

Got it. Off to see what level four has. O_o


Woo. Level four has butterflies. I think I figured out their movement....

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[Last edited by cheese obsessive at 11-14-2005 11:38 PM]

googa
Level: Moderator

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Exactly! Cheese Obsessive

Erik, about the "go with the flow" idea, I think it sounds pretty good but you will see on later levels that this would prevent a lot of cool puzzles..

I dont know if you guys understood the reason for the Battle Button (B), it is good for lazy fighters, if you have a lot of monsters to kill, find a good alcove and use it..

The first to finish the game please post here.
And if anyone conquered L4 1E 4S please, let me know.

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[Last edited by googa at 11-15-2005 02:10 AM]

TripleM
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1373
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Alright, I've managed to finish all 4 levels (though I haven't tried the 'timer' one yet.)

A few little things:
In 4th level, 4E, you can hit the orb, wait for the top ball to close the door, and then hit the orb again and not have to worry about getting past the door quickly, which I don't think is intended.

I don't think its a good idea to have Exit Level on the screen the whole time once it does appear - near the end of the 4th level, I explored all the rooms via those narrow passages that lead nowhere, and ended up having the 'Exit Level' on my screen as I played through those rooms with the, um, latest guy, whatever his name was. It was hard to see the arrows/anything else behind the message.

That last room was excellent, I loved it.

I don't quite get how restoring the game works - when you first click restore, the whole map is black, and then you click on one of the rooms to actually see stuff. You may want to think about how that works, it seems a little weird to me.

As for level 4, 1E4S, I think I know why you are asking about that, since I did it in a way not using many of the barrels/crates. I won't give away how I did it here; if you want to know exactly, let me know and I'll PM you.

I agree with earlier comments on the key repeat rate etc - at times it just doesn't seem 'smooth' to me. Probably not much you can do about that part of it though.

Thats all the comments I can think of at the moment.. other than: Very cool!!

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[Last edited by TripleM at 11-15-2005 05:57 AM]

googa
Level: Moderator

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Thanks for the L4-4E bug, the second you found for me.
I thought about the level exit problem today at morning, (I tested those rooms only on the editor, without the message annoying me).

Restore Screen:
Click in the level you want, and click restore to restart the level from the beginning… or click a room you want, and restore. Every time you enter in a room, the restore file is saved.

I limited the game FPS to 30, because on lower end machines the gameplay may become unstable. Fast on light rooms, and slow on heavy ones. I will provide an option to disable this limitation. And a “Smooth Movement factor”, also.

PS: the smooth movement is just an animation; it doesn’t slow down the action. The problem is just the FPS limit.

And finally, please tell me how did you get to the boat without using the boxes and barrels on L4, 1E4S??

TripleM
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1373
Registered: 02-05-2003
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File: soln.JPG (17.7 KB)
Downloaded 86 times.
License: Other

Oh, one more thing I forgot to mention - theres a couple of times where, while in the boat, you must change into one of the other guys and need to have your sword in the correct orientation straight away. There isn't a way of turning while in the boat, so at one point I had to travel across a few screens, change to a player, rotate the sword, get back in the boat, and back across a few screens. It would be nice if there was some way of changing orientation while in the boat; I'm not sure how though.
I did use some of the barrels/boxes, just not many.

edit - actually, easier just to tell you here, since I can upload an image. Attached is which boxes/barrels I moved in order to do the upper part. Theres a few other boxes near this part which I didn't use at all.


Now that I think about it, maybe this was how you intended after all.

---

[Last edited by TripleM at 11-15-2005 08:01 AM]

Jeff_Ray...
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 962
Registered: 05-16-2005
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So googa, do i get my post for level maker? I won't have really a lot of time too... so dont forget that i won't be productive here.

____________________________
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Click here to find out my LPs' progress, and find out what I plan to tackle next!

Currently playing:


My Holds:
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larrymurk
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1911
Registered: 12-09-2004
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I give the "battle key" a big thumbs up. I'm disabled and holding down the control key for repeating in DROD is a bit of a problem for me. The "battle key" is an elegant solution.

googa
Level: Moderator

Rank Points: 282
Registered: 09-20-2004
IP: Logged

TripleM, the fact that the boat can’t change the orientation is a puzzle factor, further rooms depends on it; (though it may be boring sometimes) I did it intentionally. About the room, I thought you had found another way to conquer it.

Jeff, Ill PM you soon..

I won’t be able to answer messages until Thursday, because I’ll travel. I’ll be working on the next 4 levels. I think I will divide the game in episodes of four levels each..

ErikH2000
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2794
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

Gustavo, I sent you an e-mail message early yesterday. Just wanted to make sure you got it.

-Erik

____________________________
The Godkiller - Chapter 1 available now on Steam. It's a DROD-like puzzle adventure game.
dev journals | twitch stream | youtube archive (NSFW)

agaricus5
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1838
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

Jeff_Ray... wrote:
So googa, do i get my post for level maker? I won't have really a lot of time too... so dont forget that i won't be productive here.

Ahem, Jeff:

From your private board:
If you accept my offer, you must stay focused on this one project alone, and make a reasonable effort to do something with it. If you start another project involving building holds that's not involved in any way with this, I will stop helping you and leave you to your own devices.

That is a serious warning. I know you want to help build some levels for this game too, and that's commendable, but that's one more project you'll be taking up, and another you'll be dropping in a short while.

It's not that I want to be unfair or selfish, but Jeff, if you do decide to help build levels for WonderQuest, you are breaking the agreement you agreed to, and I won't help you anymore, since you're just sort of wasting my time. If you can complete a few levels properly (let's say 4) and prove to me you're serious about accepting my help, then I won't mind you doing other things. Until then, however, that warning stands.

____________________________
Resident Medic/Mycologist

ErikH2000
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2794
Registered: 02-04-2003
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Here's a bug on level 4.



-Erik

____________________________
The Godkiller - Chapter 1 available now on Steam. It's a DROD-like puzzle adventure game.
dev journals | twitch stream | youtube archive (NSFW)

ErikH2000
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2794
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

TripleM wrote:
I don't think its a good idea to have Exit Level on the screen the whole time once it does appear - near the end of the 4th level, I explored all the rooms via those narrow passages that lead nowhere, and ended up having the 'Exit Level' on my screen as I played through those rooms with the, um, latest guy, whatever his name was. It was hard to see the arrows/anything else behind the message.

I totally agree. It's a pain to have this when you're still trying to see what's on the screen to solve rooms like on level 4.

-Erik

____________________________
The Godkiller - Chapter 1 available now on Steam. It's a DROD-like puzzle adventure game.
dev journals | twitch stream | youtube archive (NSFW)

ErikH2000
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2794
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

Hints wanted on 4:3e.



Any hints? This game is getting too hard for me. Just... a little... further. Must reach... end... level 4.

-Erik

____________________________
The Godkiller - Chapter 1 available now on Steam. It's a DROD-like puzzle adventure game.
dev journals | twitch stream | youtube archive (NSFW)

stigant
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1182
Registered: 08-19-2004
IP: Logged

I don't think its a good idea to have Exit Level on the screen the whole time once it does appear

Thirded! I was going to complain about it last night, but all I do is complain!


I have a thought on the archer: He seems way better than Jax (the arrow limitation hurts his utility somewhat, but being able to shoot things at a distance way overcompensates for that). I think it might make things more balanced/interesting if he couldn't shoot things that are right next to him (ie he can't smite roaches by swinging his bow into them). He'd have to back up to put an arrow in them.

____________________________
Progress Quest Progress

ErikH2000
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2794
Registered: 02-04-2003
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stigant wrote:
I have a thought on the archer: He seems way better than Jax (the arrow limitation hurts his utility somewhat, but being able to shoot things at a distance way overcompensates for that). I think it might make things more balanced/interesting if he couldn't shoot things that are right next to him (ie he can't smite roaches by swinging his bow into them). He'd have to back up to put an arrow in them.

Hmm. Yeah, but do the different characters really need to be balanced? Puzzles are tailor-made for the powers and limitations of each, and whatever strengths a character has, the challenges given to the character will compensate for them.

I get the feeling that Gustavo is fairly attached to how his game elements work now, so it's maybe all moot. When he gets back, it would be good if he'd explain what parts of the game are complete and not likely to change based on feedback.

-Erik

____________________________
The Godkiller - Chapter 1 available now on Steam. It's a DROD-like puzzle adventure game.
dev journals | twitch stream | youtube archive (NSFW)

TripleM
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1373
Registered: 02-05-2003
IP: Logged

ErikH2000 wrote:
Hints wanted on 4:3e.

Click here to view the secret text

×
I can open the west chamber using the ball and push a crate into the west chamber with me. Then the dividing door closes behind me, and the route to push my crate onto the west chamber plate isn't clear (arrows are in the way).

I figured I needed to keep the ball in the east chamber bouncing against the orb..

You'll kick yourself for this one..

ErikH2000
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2794
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

TripleM wrote:
You'll kick yourself for this one..

Oh man, I am kicking myself so hard.

-Erik

____________________________
The Godkiller - Chapter 1 available now on Steam. It's a DROD-like puzzle adventure game.
dev journals | twitch stream | youtube archive (NSFW)

Jeff_Ray...
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 962
Registered: 05-16-2005
IP: Logged

agaricus5 wrote:

Jeff_Ray... wrote:
So googa, do i get my post for level maker? I won't have really a lot of time too... so dont forget that i won't be productive here.

Ahem, Jeff:

From your private board:
If you accept my offer, you must stay focused on this one project alone, and make a reasonable effort to do something with it. If you start another project involving building holds that's not involved in any way with this, I will stop helping you and leave you to your own devices.

That is a serious warning. I know you want to help build some levels for this game too, and that's commendable, but that's one more project you'll be taking up, and another you'll be dropping in a short while.

It's not that I want to be unfair or selfish, but Jeff, if you do decide to help build levels for WonderQuest, you are breaking the agreement you agreed to, and I won't help you anymore, since you're just sort of wasting my time. If you can complete a few levels properly (let's say 4) and prove to me you're serious about accepting my help, then I won't mind you doing other things. Until then, however, that warning stands.

Ok.

____________________________
I make Let's Plays too!
Click here to find out my LPs' progress, and find out what I plan to tackle next!

Currently playing:


My Holds:
-Completed:

-Work in Progress:

stigant
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1182
Registered: 08-19-2004
IP: Logged

Yeah, but do the different characters really need to be balanced? Puzzles are tailor-made for the powers and limitations of each, and whatever strengths a character has, the challenges given to the character will compensate for them.

I had that thought as well, but balancing the characters a bit more opens the possibility of puzzles that make the player choose the right character for the job rather than telling him/her which character to use. Right now, presented with such a choice, I would pick archer 99.9% of the time. With a limitation as I described above, I would think twice about picking the archer in a horde type room (although he could still be useful to control the horde from a distance, or to take out a straight line of roches quickly without blowing his cover)

____________________________
Progress Quest Progress

Andy101
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 222
Registered: 07-22-2005
IP: Logged

I have found a bug on level 2 1n1e that appears to cause the game to crash, on my computer at least. If you stand in the entrance at the south and let the balls come towards you until they crush you then if you are standing on the left side of the passage you will die and then restart in the previous room (this sounds a bit buggy but may be intended). However if you stand in any of the other three bottom squares of the passage then when the ball pushes against you the games will crash

____________________________
"True perfection has to be imperfect"

ErikH2000
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2794
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

Okay, I need a hint for 4:2e, the last room of level 4. My "progress" before I get stuck:



-Erik

____________________________
The Godkiller - Chapter 1 available now on Steam. It's a DROD-like puzzle adventure game.
dev journals | twitch stream | youtube archive (NSFW)

trick
Level: Legendary Smitemaster
Rank Points: 2580
Registered: 04-12-2003
IP: Logged

Nice game. However, on my machine (a pentium 3 500mhz antique) the game runs slower and slower the longer it runs. When things get unbearably slow, quitting the game completely, starting it up again, and continuing from where I left makes things go fast again (well, faster, anyway -- it's still pretty slow at this thing). Two things I've noticed that specially makes the game slow down are water and large doors (and, sometimes, eyes). This is using Windows 2000, btw.

I first tried running the game in Linux using Wine (latest version), but when I stepped on the first scroll Wine decided to crash, take X down with it, and then completely freeze the machine (even remote ssh reboot didn't work). Yay. (Not expecting you to attempt to fix this, of course, just a heads-up to any other Linux users -- although it may be related to the slightly faulty graphics card I've got here)

- Gerry

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[Last edited by trick at 11-16-2005 09:43 PM]