butsam
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 114
Registered: 05-20-2003
IP: Logged

Having completed DROD about a month ago (and wondered ever since then if Beethro warps through time when restoring a saved game), I have my own thoughts on what makes a good puzzle and what makes a puzzle not so good.

I think my least-liked element of a puzzle in DROD is a "hack and slash" room where you must constantly fend off a barage of monsters, moving a square closer at a time. Now, every once in awhile is fine, or if there is a very good puzzle associated with it, but too many of these is bad.

The best puzzle is one that can stump you for hours, and the solution is not very apparent, but later becomes obvious and you wonder how you could have missed it.

Of course, variety is also good, and some rooms can be intermediate, but overall it should be a good PUZZLE, not sword aerobics.

Sam

PS: This is definitely not to claim that I have made good-quality puzzles, I am mainly just beta-testing the editor right now. But expect better quality once we get more stability

[Edited by butsam on 07-09-2003 at 03:28 AM]

zex20913
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1723
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

I agree with your statements...as long as they are strictly applied to DROD.

Not too many games out there (any?) rely on the concept of "dude with sword kills monsters". The "hack-and-slash" is, to me, unique to DROD. So it provides a bit of entertainment all on its own.

I do think that puzzle rooms are better too though.

____________________________

butsam
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 114
Registered: 05-20-2003
IP: Logged

I agree the "hack-and-slash" in DROD is unique, and the comments I made apply uniquely to DROD. A few hack-and-slash rooms are good and refreshing, especially if there is a unique "hack" that you must make in the room, but that makes it more of a puzzle than hack-and-slash in my opinion. Overall, most rooms are not that bad...I was thinking in particular of that one on level 7, and some other similar rooms, as hack-and-slash. Now, occasionally (as is in King Dugan's) is fine and great variety, but I hope nobody makes a hold comprised entirely of those types of puzzles...well I guess if that floats your boat go for it, but still, don't expect me to be too interested in something like that.

Sam

eytanz
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2708
Registered: 02-05-2003
IP: Logged

I don't know... I occasionally like the odd hack-and-slash. I think one of the nice things about fan-made holds is that they will allow for holds to appeal to all tastes, anyway.

Hack & Slash is best when there is a tactical element to it in addition to just flipping your sword back and forth, of course. Rooms where you just stand in one corner and kill dozens of roaches until there are none left are far less interesting.

____________________________
I got my avatar back! Yay!

Mattcrampy
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2388
Registered: 05-29-2003
IP: Logged

I've been nutting out a room for a bit with this premise -

"You have to manipulate the queens in such a way so you can make progress when killing roaches."

The problem I'm having is that I can't make it an interesting puzzle - the roach queens just run off into a corner and stay there, and it becomes a tiring case of hack-and-slash.

I do like the hack-and-slash rooms, just so long as they're designed around the idea of "ensuring you can get through in the first place".

Hmmm... maybe a room based around finding the one place in the level you can kill roaches so they don't get you or build up. That won't be too hard to do.

Matt

____________________________
What do you call an elephant at the North Pole?