Azsedcf
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For anyone on the DROD team:

Ok, this is going to be tough for me since I have a few bazillion questions about TCB, but I will limit it to technical questions. Also, I am not trying to twist your arm with these questions so if you can't or just don't want to answer that is ok to.

Most of these questions deal with the building of holds or the needs & requirements of TCB.

1) First off, will TCB be a completely different program(like JTRH was in relation to AE), or will it be like a patch for JTRH, or if it is completely different than those two please explain?

B] I am not looking for exact numbers but will the sys requirements for TCB be greater than(TCB > JTRH), greater than/equal to(TCB >= JTRH), equal to(TCB == JTRH), less than/equal to(TCB <= JTRH), or less than(TCB < JTRH) the sys requirements for JTRH?

iii} If it is a completely new program, will we be able to import,
1i+4) current holds we are
$) currently building
*) currently playing through
3i-6) current saves for said holds

$> If TCB is a new program, will JTRH be included?

Concerning building holds(since I am a slow worker and TCB will most probably be released by then(as a hint I started working on this hold 1 year before JTRH was released)):

7*4-23) Will scripting be the same or will commands be changed(I Am Not Asking About New Commands, Just the ones provided with JTRH)?

7*4-22) Concerning new commands, are there any? I am not asking what they are just weather there are new commands.

There were other questions but I cant remember all of them and some of the other ones depend on the answers for these ones.

Sin,
Azsedcf

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[Last edited by Azsedcf at 08-22-2005 02:18 PM]

agaricus5
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Azsedcf wrote:
Most of these questions deal with the building of holds or the needs & requirements of TCB.

I'm not a developer, but I guess I know enough to answer most of your questions.

1) First off, will TCB be a completely different program(like JTRH was in relation to AE), or will it be like a patch for JTRH, or if it is completely different than those two please explain?

It will probably be a completely new program (probably called version 3) and therefore it is most likely to be a separate commercial product with its own official hold and features. You would still be able to play JtRH if you so wish using DROD 2.0, although I don't know if the hold actually will be included with TCB (I guess it possibly won't, though, since it would then make 2.0 generally useless unless you can't play DROD 3 for whatever reason).

B] I am not looking for exact numbers but will the sys requirements for TCB be greater than(TCB > JTRH), greater than/equal to(TCB >= JTRH), equal to(TCB == JTRH), less than/equal to(TCB <= JTRH), or less than(TCB < JTRH) the sys requirements for JTRH?

I'll leave it to a developer to answer this fully, but with the general Caravel stance towards system requirements, I'm guessing that TCB should at least be playable on all machines that JtRH can be at present, otherwise a proportion of players will be sort of left out. I guess, though, that more features will be included for people with faster and better computers as well.

iii} If it is a completely new program, will we be able to import,
1i+4) current holds we are
$) currently building
*) currently playing through
3i-6) current saves for said holds

I'd guess anything built in AE or JtRH should be importable into TCB, otherwise the large collection of holds we will have by then is basically useless. Since you can export saves and demos in your player file, I guess that if you have the hold already imported, you can import (or re-import) the file as you can now to retain your saved progress (although rooms may get a bit messed up if there are behavioural changes in TCB for whatever reason).

7*4-23) Will scripting be the same or will commands be changed(I Am Not Asking About New Commands, Just the ones provided with JTRH)?

If the script command is in JtRH, it's very likely that they will also be in TCB (althiugh perhaps with slightly different names), or backwards compatibility won't be preserved.

7*4-22) Concerning new commands, are there any? I am not asking what they are just weather there are new commands.

Probably. There have been calls for different types of script commands (relative positioning being one of them, for example) and it is perfectly possible that some may make it into TCB (although as with all feature requests, nothing is guaranteed until the program is finished).

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eytanz
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Caveat: I'm helping with TCB level design, but I'm not an authority. If Erik or Mike say that anything conflicts with what I say, they are the ones to believe.

Azsedcf wrote:
For anyone on the DROD team:

Ok, this is going to be tough for me since I have a few bazillion questions about TCB, but I will limit it to technical questions. Also, I am not trying to twist your arm with these questions so if you can't or just don't want to answer that is ok to.

Most of these questions deal with the building of holds or the needs & requirements of TCB.

1) First off, will TCB be a completely different program(like JTRH was in relation to AE), or will it be like a patch for JTRH, or if it is completely different than those two please explain?

It will be somewhere between a "patch" and a new program. The majority of the difference between AE and JtRH resulted from the difference in handling the media necessary for Caravelnet. As far as I know, TCB will be fully backwards compatible with anything done in JtRH. It will add stuff, but not remove stuff or overhaul the existing JtRH graphics (I can't rule out minor changes but nothing to the extent of AE -> JtRH).

B] I am not looking for exact numbers but will the sys requirements for TCB be greater than(TCB > JTRH), greater than/equal to(TCB >= JTRH), equal to(TCB == JTRH), less than/equal to(TCB <= JTRH), or less than(TCB < JTRH) the sys requirements for JTRH?

I think it's about the same. But you'd need to have Mike answer that to know for sure.

iii} If it is a completely new program, will we be able to import,
1i+4) current holds we are
$) currently building
*) currently playing through
3i-6) current saves for said holds

Anything that JtRH can import will be importable by TCB.

$> If TCB is a new program, will JTRH be included?

JtRH (the hold) will be a seperate product.

Concerning building holds(since I am a slow worker and TCB will most probably be released by then(as a hint I started working on this hold 1 year before JTRH was released)):

7*4-23) Will scripting be the same or will commands be changed(I Am Not Asking About New Commands, Just the ones provided with JTRH)?

As I said above, TCB will be fully backwards compatible with JtRH. There might of course be changes to things, but if there are, they will be done in such a way that JtRH scripts still work the same as before.

7*4-22) Concerning new commands, are there any? I am not asking what they are just weather there are new commands.

TCB will feature many new gameplay elements. Some of them may be scripting commands.

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Oneiromancer
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It's definitely safe to say that being able to import everything directly from any previous version of DROD into TCB is a very high priority for Mike. There are some changes under the hood in how TCB operates, but the essential engine is the same...so as was said, this isn't a huge upgrade like from AE to JtRH. Since that part was already done, Mike's programming time can be more exclusively spent on relatively smaller things like game elements, scripting, etc.

Game on,

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mrimer
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Oneiromancer wrote:
as was said, this isn't a huge upgrade like from AE to JtRH.

Heh, I wouldn't say that. Well...if you're referring to upgrading the game's screen resolution again or something like that, then no -- TCB will also be 1024x768 resolution and should be playable on all the same video cards and monitors, etc., as JtRH. But if you're talking about upgrading the game engine, then I'd say TCB is just about as big a leap from JtRH as JtRH was from DROD:AE.

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Azsedcf
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Thanks for the info. This helps.

Oh, by the way, you guys did a very good job with JTRH.
I have not seen such a stable gameplay since back in the wee-days of DOS.

cheese obsessive
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So will it cost money for a different program? Or is it like...a huge update, and be sort of like downloading a new patch, just bigger?

I guess this may have already sort of been answered, but not too clearly.

gamer_extreme_101
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It'll be a brand-new program that you will have to pay for seperatly.

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Jeffrey
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So, the big question: What will happen to the JtRH hold when TCB gets released?

Will there be a "JtRH2" for TCB CaravelNet members, will the .hold file eventually be released (pay or free) or will something else happen? Or will we eventually lose the hold when Caravel stops selling it?

Or will we have to keep playing the JtRH hold in the JtRH game which is probably going to end up unmaintained?

Just wondering about the longer-term future... it's pretty sad to see older games go because the software is broken or the hardware isn't there anymore with no existing emulators. Basically the reason DOSBox was created.

eytanz
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Whoa. You're assuming some weird stuff there. I can't discuss business decisions like what will be sold to who, but:

A - Why would you expect the JtRH engine to be unmaintained? The DROD:AE engine is still maintained now.

B - As mentioned above, TCB will be fully backwards compatible. You will be able to play JtRH on it. There will be no need for a JtRH 2.

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trick
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C - Both AE and JtRH (and TCB, when the time comes) are Open Source. Is the year 53773, you're on a small planet in the vicinity of Betelgeuse, and computers are improbability-driven quantum thingies embedded in your mind ? No problem, you just use the source to port the game, and it'll work.

- Gerry

Banjooie
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Trick: What about CaravelNet-only holds in the year 53773?

Jeffrey
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A - Why would you expect the JtRH engine to be unmaintained? The DROD:AE engine is still maintained now.

It is? I thought it wasn't... everything seems to happen with JtRH these days.

B - As mentioned above, TCB will be fully backwards compatible. You will be able to play JtRH on it. There will be no need for a JtRH 2.

Of course, you'd need a hold file unless it's going to be done in some other way.

C - Both AE and JtRH ...

Okay, agreed. People will still need the data but that's probably pretty easy to extract even when you can't run the binaries anymore.

Trick: What about CaravelNet-only holds in the year 53773?

...and that's pretty much what I was trying to say in my original post, with the exception of CaravelNet-only being "all holds you can't get a normal unrestricted .hold file for".


True, we probably won't be playing DROD in 53773, but it's nice that the option's there.

Tim
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Jeffrey wrote:

A - Why would you expect the JtRH engine to be unmaintained? The DROD:AE engine is still maintained now.

It is? I thought it wasn't... everything seems to happen with JtRH these days.

Well, AE has already been around for years, and we had and have many discussions on AE. JtRH is new, and humans in nature tend to talk a lot more about new, undiscovered things.

True, we probably won't be playing DROD in 53773, but it's nice that the option's there.

I do not speak for Caravel, but I guess that if you can wait until 53773, there will be an option by then.

To be honest, I am still considering about making AE holds. But since I've only got one comment for my last one, I don't think I want to...

-- Tim

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eytanz
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Jeffrey wrote:

A - Why would you expect the JtRH engine to be unmaintained? The DROD:AE engine is still maintained now.

It is? I thought it wasn't... everything seems to happen with JtRH these days.

Well, sure. If your computer can run JtRH, there's little reason to run AE. That doesn't mean it's not supported by the developers, only that the community, as a whole, has generally moved on. Bugs found in AE are still being fixed, and assistance is offered for technical and other problems. What other sort of support do you expect?

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Jeffrey
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eytanz wroteBugs found in AE are still being fixed, and assistance is offered for technical and other problems. What other sort of support do you expect?

Oh, I actually thought AE wasn't being supported at all anymore. It doesn't really look like it...

eytanz
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Jeffrey wrote:

eytanz wroteBugs found in AE are still being fixed, and assistance is offered for technical and other problems. What other sort of support do you expect?

Oh, I actually thought AE wasn't being supported at all anymore. It doesn't really look like it...

I'm still not sure what it is you expect to see. Are there any bugs in AE that you feel are being left unaddressed? Or what? What would make it "look like" AE is supported?

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Jeffrey
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I'm still not sure what it is you expect to see. Are there any bugs in AE that you feel are being left unaddressed? Or what? What would make it "look like" AE is supported?

Nothing really... what I said a few hours ago doesn't really make sense to me anymore. Still, it looks like there's nobody left playing AE and I doubt it'd get another update if it breaks on newer OSses.

note to self: don't post when you're tired

jamie
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I don't mean this as a troll - I'm really not clear on the answer. I never really used AE, I went straight from webfoot drod to JtRH. So.... :

What is the point of AE now ?

JtRH loads all the AE holds, and JtRH is free without the full JtRH levels...

I understand that AE has a better KDD ending than if you import the original KDD into JtRH, but what else ?

Cheers, Jamie

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[Last edited by jamie at 08-28-2005 01:30 AM : fixed grammar]

trick
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jamie wrote:
What is the point of AE now ?

Well, JtRH is a tad more resource hungry than AE is (specially because of the higher resolution), so people with very slow computers may prefer AE over JtRH. Also, it allows you to play KDD and other AE holds with the original room styles.

- Gerry

Oneiromancer
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And no-one's made a DRODIS or other full conversion thing for JtRH yet, if you want to play in a weird mode like that.

I believe there actually was a patch for AE a month or so after JtRH came out. If there was ever a huge bug discovered in AE, then it would likely be patched. I have at least one friend who downloaded the AE version because it was fully free and complete as-is, so I know people are still interested in that. But all the die-hard fans (i.e. the ones that actually post on forums with any regularity) will likely be playing at least the free version of JtRH.

Game on,

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