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roachman
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2 animated Gifs that you people could use as avitars or DRoD.net could use for some thing.





Yes, they are the same but they are diffrent sizes depending on how they are used

leave feedback Please!

EDIT: Caravel grants permission to anyone for redistributing the images found in this post.

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[Last edited by ErikH2000 at 07-08-2005 11:26 PM]
07-04-2005 at 08:10 PM
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Jeff_Ray...
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Sorry, but you can't use JtRH graphics. Its forbidden.

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07-06-2005 at 05:48 PM
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ErikH2000
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Yeah, Jeff is right. But in this case, Roachman, I would just like you to ask permission first. So just send me an e-mail (erikh@caravelgames.com) and ask if you can post something on the forum that is based on JtRH's graphics. And I'll say "yes", but you still have to ask.

Nice job on the GIFs by the way. :thumbsup

-Erik

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07-06-2005 at 06:11 PM
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ErikH2000
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Note that you can always use graphics from DROD: Architects' Edition for whatever you like without getting permission. All of the media in AE is public domain.

-Erik

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07-06-2005 at 06:12 PM
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roachman
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if i have to ask permission, why are they given out with the program? (Resources => data => Bitmaps => generaltiles.png then u have all of them there.

o and heres an OSX bug: u can right-click on the osx app, then click "show package contents", navigate to resources => Data => Music. then u can steal the music that u sell sumwhere on this site.

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[Last edited by roachman at 07-07-2005 12:13 AM]
07-07-2005 at 12:07 AM
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ErikH2000
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roachman wrote:
if i have to ask permission, why are they given out with the program? (Resources => data => Bitmaps => generaltiles.png then u have all of them there.
If you make something, then you get to say what can be done with it. That's the general principle, and it's more or less backed up by the laws of the country I live in and probably the one you live in. Simply making something available for one use doesn't mean it is available for all uses. Makes sense, right? Like if you buy DROD, you have all the files, but you haven't been given the right to make copies and give to all of your friends. All of the files we distribute with DROD are only for the person we give them to. (Okay, it's slightly more complicated than that, but that's why we have EULAs.)

The reason I hassle over this trivial case of you using JtRH graphics for some GIFs, is that I want to be consistent to avoid misunderstanding--not just with you, but everyone. Clayton recently posted some artwork from the game, and I asked him to add a permission statement to his post, because I don't want people thinking they can grab whatever they like from the game and redistribute it.

You can ask permission or take the graphics down.
o and heres an OSX bug: u can right-click on the osx app, then click "show package contents", navigate to resources => Data => Music. then u can steal the music that u sell sumwhere on this site.
Thanks, I'll check with Weston about that.

-Erik

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07-07-2005 at 12:25 AM
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roachman
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o ok

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07-08-2005 at 06:36 PM
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Jeff_Ray...
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But i don't have them. Why does roachman have them?

Is he talking of JtRH?

Jeff_ray===

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07-08-2005 at 09:20 PM
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ErikH2000
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Roachman, I am taking your pics down. If you want to put them back up, then send me an e-mail requesting permission like I asked for earlier.

-Erik

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07-08-2005 at 10:06 PM
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roachman
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ok, and will a pm work for an email? my email has been down for a while for some reason... :angry :thumbsdown :no

Jeff_Ray... wrote:
But i don't have them. Why does roachman have them?

Is he talking of JtRH?

Jeff_ray===

i have the pics from JtRH because i am playing on a mac, where i can go into a program's data with a right and a left click.

im not dissing windows, despite what ^ sounded like

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[Last edited by roachman at 07-08-2005 11:06 PM]
07-08-2005 at 11:05 PM
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ErikH2000
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roachman wrote:
ok, and will a pm work for an email? my email has been down for a while for some reason... :angry :thumbsdown :no
Alright, this is just getting silly. Let me just recreate the conversation we would have had, so this doesn't take 5 years:

roachman: Can I post these graphics from JtRH on the forum?

erik: Yeah, sure, but just add the following text to your post, "Caravel grants permission to anyone for redistributing the images found in this post."

roachman: Okay, no problem. I'll add that to my post.

And now, to save time, I'll go edit the post to have that statement. Roachman, if you don't agree with any of this, just let me know.

-Erik

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07-08-2005 at 11:22 PM
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Banjooie
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Oh, dude. I believe I may want to do something on this line except vaguely more complicated. :O
07-09-2005 at 03:54 AM
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ErikH2000
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Seriously?

If you'd like to use some graphics from JtRH, then just e-mail me and ask for permission.

-Erik

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07-09-2005 at 04:45 AM
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Jeff_Ray...
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I would like to edit JTRH graphics... how can i get the GeneralTiles.bmp file?

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07-09-2005 at 01:12 PM
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Banjooie
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http://www.geocities.com/banjooie/BeethroRotate.gif

Here because I don't have my hotlinking-allowing webspace access at the moment, and because adding more animated gifs to this thread would be bad.

Erik, I've emailed asking for permission, if you, uh, dislike that I've posted this first before you responded, I'm terribly sorry. I'm hoping it won't be too big of an issue.

And, uh, yeah, this is hopefully with permission of Caravel Games, and I hope I'm not thoroughly destroyed for it.

Edit: Ah, there we are. Caravel Games gives anyone permission to redistribute the graphics in this post.

All done now. I'd give it its own thread, but, y'know. :O Roach did it first, he deserves top billing.

[Last edited by Banjooie at 07-10-2005 07:21 AM]
07-09-2005 at 08:54 PM
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SbCl3
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os x users get the graphics in seperate files? no fair!
07-13-2005 at 06:41 PM
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Banjooie
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Hey, Erik. If I wanted to be fancy and do some more of these, (because now I'm all inspired and whatnot), do I have to keep emailing you like, when I do every batch, or is the 'I am going to make animated gifs with JtRH and not use them for profit' email I sent at first good enough for you? :O
07-21-2005 at 07:06 AM
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ErikH2000
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Banjooie wrote:
Hey, Erik. If I wanted to be fancy and do some more of these, (because now I'm all inspired and whatnot), do I have to keep emailing you like, when I do every batch, or is the 'I am going to make animated gifs with JtRH and not use them for profit' email I sent at first good enough for you? :O
I'm honestly having a lot of trouble with this. Not you in particular, Banjooie. Just the whole question of making derivative work from protected game graphics. Let me explain the general problem better. And also, my apologies for using your simple request to springboard into a rant. I'm not finding fault in you.

A lot of people are accustomed to grabbing graphics from other games and using them. Like you see movies generated from gameplay, screenshots with comic strip captions, game art on fan sites all over the place. The publishers and developers don't seem to care, and why would they? Creativity from fans like this really helps them out. But most times, they haven't really granted legal permission--the use is simply not causing them a problem so they unofficially allow it. Typically the unspoken boundary of acceptable use is just whether it's commercial or noncommercial. But still there are these corporations that are reserving the right to suddenly say "we don't like that mod you spent 2 months working on, so you'll just have to stop or get sued". I think this approach is terrible, and don't want to use it. It's bad because it promotes ignorance of legal rights. It's bad because someone who creates things based on other's work can't guard against their time being wasted when the creator unexpectedly objects.

Another approach that some companies use is to specify upfront what derivative works are allowed. To some extent, we've done this. The source code for DROD is all under one open source license. The media in DROD:AE was released into public domain. But then came along JtRH, a real commercial product, and we wanted something to be protected or any old buttinski could clone our project and start selling alongside us with 2 days of effort. It had to be the media. Can we also make some kind of general license that allows for fans to use the media? Yes, technically we could, but we'd need to take pains to distinguish all the allowed and disallowed uses. It requires time, legal expertise, and an exhaustive imagination for all the ways people can exploit allowed uses to produce something that competes against our products--both right now and ten years from now. We don't have the resources to do that. If we were Blizzard or Microsoft, sure, we'd just get a lawyer to spend a week on it, and then presto, a whole legal framework for fan-based creativity gets dropped into the EULA.

Which brings up the next problem. Suppose all that perfect lawyer magic has been carved into the EULA, who will read and understand it? Lawyers--that's who! Not Jeff Ray. Not Banjooie. Probably not even me. I hate that. Legal agreements should not be some kind of mystical pentagram you draw around your intellectual property to protect it. It should be something easily understandable.

It may take some time, but I have ideas involving use of the Creative Commons licensing to address these problems. In the mean time, people should still e-mail me for permission for posting (or otherwise distributing) works based on JtRH graphics and other media to which we've reserved rights.

Back to poor Banjooie, who is wiping spit off his face from all my excited ranting. Looking up the old e-mail I sent you... Okay, I grant permission for Banjooie to distribute other animated GIFs that use JtRH graphics under the same terms we discussed in e-mail.

-Erik

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07-21-2005 at 08:51 PM
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Banjooie
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Yeah, that's why I was wondering about the careful protection. Blizzard doesn't even care if you outright take animations of their 3D models -- Their forums are full of people with Walking Peasant Avatars and the like.
07-22-2005 at 12:37 AM
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ErikH2000
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Banjooie wrote:
Yeah, that's why I was wondering about the careful protection. Blizzard doesn't even care if you outright take animations of their 3D models -- Their forums are full of people with Walking Peasant Avatars and the like.
My understanding is that Blizzard has released some media on it's website for fan use. And you can use that content and screenshots in certain ways, but they can stop you from using it if they feel like it.

http://www.blizzard.com/legalfaq.shtml

I guess from what you say that people go beyond that use and Blizzard doesn't do much about it. That's not really a terrible approach. At least Blizzard set some ground rules, but then you see the selective enforcement which I don't like for reasons mentioned.

-Erik

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07-22-2005 at 01:11 AM
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Banjooie
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It is sort of a nasty, nasty way of having your cake and eating it too, isn't it.
07-22-2005 at 02:33 AM
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ErikH2000
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Well, I don't want to sound too harsh about Blizzard. I hold it to their credit that they even have a legal FAQ.

-Erik

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07-22-2005 at 02:45 AM
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roachman wrote:
if i have to ask permission, why are they given out with the program? (Resources => data => Bitmaps => generaltiles.png then u have all of them there.

I know that Erik has already given an explanation of why his permission is necessary. I would like to additionally point out that the various media do, of course, need to be present in some form in the beta distribution; otherwise it would not be able to draw the screen and play the sounds! Their presence (even if they were immediately apparent without any right-clicking) is hardly a reason to believe that you have any right to distribute animated gifs based on them without first asking for permission. It is unfortunate that I distributed them in a manner that led you to the wrong conclusion, and I apologise for that.

o and heres an OSX bug: u can right-click on the osx app, then click "show package contents", navigate to resources => Data => Music. then u can steal the music that u sell sumwhere on this site.

In short, this is an oversight on my part, for all of the media files that are present under the Resources directory. Thanks for reporting it! Those various data files should already be available from within the .dat files. I will hopefully release a new beta that uses these within a few days.


Weston

07-28-2005 at 10:02 PM
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Huh? You have original GENERALTILES? Mah, i dont think is possible... You hacked Jtrh? You changed a C++ on Jtrh? Or you ripped by a screenshot for create the gifs?

I WANT ORIGINAL GRAPHICS!!!

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[Last edited by SuperV at 07-29-2005 10:57 AM]
07-29-2005 at 10:55 AM
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Three words can end this discussion:

IT'S...A....BUG!

No one is getting the original graphics handed down to them or anything like that. It was simply a matter of a small bug in the Mac OSX version that is, knowing Weston, being fixed as we speak.

And odds are that Banjooie used two screenshots, and made various poses by rotating the images at 90 degrees. At least that's how I would have done it.

I have a bit of experience in animated GIFs from the various ones I made way back in the day. Of them, my favourite is the classic "Mimic Death", which is about the only one that I actually would force Schik to add to the page.



Heh...such good fun.

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07-29-2005 at 05:16 PM
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Banjooie
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And odds are that Banjooie used two screenshots, and made various poses by rotating the images at 90 degrees. At least that's how I would have done it.

You are wise to my various ways, sir! :(

Also, it was somewhat more complicated than that because I had to produce the blood spurts and clear out the tiles because of the light layer of dirt and all that other stuff but yeah.

I didn't use generaltiles.png, I ripped 'em all via the power of Print Screen.
07-30-2005 at 05:15 AM
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Jeff_Ray...
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Jeff_Ray... wrote:
I would like to edit JTRH graphics... how can i get the GeneralTiles.bmp file?

please, can anyone help

jeff_ray===

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Currently playing:
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-Completed:
Click here to view the secret text

-Work in Progress:
Click here to view the secret text

08-04-2005 at 07:40 PM
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ErikH2000
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Jeff_Ray... wrote:
Jeff_Ray... wrote:
I would like to edit JTRH graphics... how can i get the GeneralTiles.bmp file?

please, can anyone help
We aren't distributing the GeneralTiles.bmp that comes with JtRH, so please don't ask for it. The DROD:AE tilesets are open for any use, and on the "Development" board there's some other tilesets like Flaming Peligroso, Sanctum 2, and Demoniak.

-Erik

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[Last edited by ErikH2000 at 08-04-2005 07:59 PM]
08-04-2005 at 07:59 PM
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ErikH2000 wrote:
Jeff_Ray... wrote:
Jeff_Ray... wrote:
I would like to edit JTRH graphics... how can i get the GeneralTiles.bmp file?

please, can anyone help
We aren't distributing the GeneralTiles.bmp that comes with JtRH, so please don't ask for it. The DROD:AE tilesets are open for any use, and on the "Development" board there's some other tilesets like Flaming Peligroso, Sanctum 2, and Demoniak.

-Erik

Demoniak is a DROD:AE style, not a JtRH style, so it wouldn't be helpful to him.

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