cheese obsessive
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I am trying to build a level where I need to make scripted roaches move in a straight line, like so:

X=empty square
R=Roach

XXXRRRRXXX ---> XXXXRRRRXX

But they don't all do that at the same time. After waiting for one turn, it ends up like:

XXXRRRXRXX

After the next turn, I get:

XXXRRXRRXX

And then:

XXXRXRRRXX

And finally, after 4 turns, I get what I want to do:

XXXXRRRRXX

Is there any way I can accomplish what I want to do in one turn rather than 4? :/

eytanz
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This sounds like an order-of-placement issue - characters, just like other monsters, will move in the order you created them. So if you placed the roaches in question from left to right, then the leftmost roach will try to move first, and be blocked by the second roach, therefore not moving, and so forth.

Switching around the order of characters should solve this.

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schep
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The first thing that comes to mind is that scripted monsters, like normal monsters, move in a specific order, determined by when you placed them in the room. So if the roach behind comes before the roach in front, it gets blocked when it tries to move and doesn't get to go again until next turn. If you were trying to move each character just one space, it would explain what you described. If they were trying to move farther, the spaces between them would remain while they were moving, like:
XXRXRXRXRXX

cheese obsessive
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That fixed it.

You should add a feature that lets you change the order of charcater movements without havig to delete the character and re-typing in the script. That was sort of annoying. (I had the roaches moving around elsewhere before they were in a straight line.) That would be awesome. Please?!?!?!?!?!

schep
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You can change character order a bit more easily by copying, pasting, and deleting characters, which will preserve their scripts. But yeah, a better way of dealing with monster order in the editor would be a good thing in general, arguably. I don't know if anybody has thought of a good way to do it, and some would probably be worried about enabling puzzles that rely on monster order tricks.

Doom
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There are some things that can be dragged around with mouse.

Characters are one of them and at least scrolls can be moved that way too. Orbs still require copying and pasting to be moved.

StuartK
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It'd be nice to have a function to reset monsters into a default movement order (e.g. top left-bottom right, or whichever was used in the original versions of DROD) If any puzzles were broken by using such a function, they'd be puzzles which rely on movement order to work properly.

[Edited by StuartK at Local Time:05-31-2005 at 06:28 PM]

Krishh
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But only puzzles that rely on movement order would benefit from that function too.

StuartK
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Krishh wrote:
But only puzzles that rely on movement order would benefit from that function too.

It's not that straightforward. Like it or not, monster movement order has an impact on room design and gameplay for both architects and players, including in rooms that do not rely on it. You'd be hard pressed for instance to find an optimal room demo, that doesn't rely on monster movement order. Using it comprises a large part of 'advanced' DROD gaming skill.

The function I described would if used simply make monster movement more predictable - rooms to which it was applied would follow the same standard as those in the original KDD where as I understand, monster movement order was always left-right, top-bottom (or some variation of that, I forget now) That might not make much of a difference very often, but then how would you fix a room that has been build in a haphazard manner at the moment? Delete all the monsters and fill them in from top to bottom seems the only way.

Optimal solutions would become more of a test of skill (albeit obscure skill) less one of randomness, trial and error. A choice of evils but IMO the former wins out.

In truth I don't see the reason for allowing monster movement order to be massaged, except in special cases (e.g. the one in this thread) I'd rather see it follow a standard, with only the option to allow exceptions.

[Edited by StuartK at Local Time:06-01-2005 at 07:29 PM]

Stefan
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StuartK wrote:
rooms to which it was applied would follow the same standard as those in the original KDD where as I understand, monster movement order was always left-right, top-bottom (or some variation of that, I forget now)

There were no such standard in the original KDD. Take a look at how the first row of roaches move in L1:6N2W (both in Webfoot DROD (Demo) and DROD:AE).

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StuartK
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I'm sure I remembered a discussion that mentioned this, but didn't have either installed to check directly. So much for assumptions, and my faulty memory I guess...

cheese obsessive
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...and I just thought of something that would mess some people up.

If you wanted that line of characters to move right, You would just put the order of characters from right to left. However, if hypothetically, you wanted that same line of characters to move back to the left, you would be screwed, because the one on the right would try to move first, and that would create the "XXRXRRRXXX" line. If hypothetically someone wanted to do that, would there be any way around that? :/

eytanz
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File: Back and forth.hold (1.3 KB)
Downloaded 53 times.
License: Other
From: Unspecified

One thing you can do is have a second set of characters, and have the first set disappear and be replaced by the second set. This becomes really cumbersome if the script is complicated, but I'm attaching a demo with a 3-character line doing just that.

Also, there's an inherent limitation to this technique. A character can only be smoothly replaced by another character (i.e. no one-turn gap between appearance and re-appearance) if the old character was placed before the new character. So, for every replacement, you need a new character. Which means that you can't have an infinite loop of characters moving back and forth with this technique.



[Edited by eytanz at Local Time:06-04-2005 at 03:18 PM]

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cheese obsessive
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You just sort of gave me a somewhat pointless, but cool-looking hold idea.

Maybe I will make a hold now.